The Criterion Collection

[Scottie]

To continue on my conversation from earlier...

You guys may have wondered in the past: "Why is a film like "Killer's Kiss" not listed as a Criterion release?" The reason for this is because when Criterion released "The Killing", they did not release it as "The Killing / Killer's Kiss", in similar fashion to their release of "The Shooting / Ride in the Whirlwind" or "Gates of Heaven / Vernon, Florida". As such, "Killer's Kiss" is an extra and should be treated as a bonus feature. The same could be said about "Godzilla, King of the Monsters", which I have seen being changed on countless occasions. Criterion presents this film as a second cut of the 1954 film. As such, we should treat it as nothing more than a cut in terms of the database entries.

That being said, I have often wondered if it would actually benefit the website greatly if we did deviate a bit from the rules/norms and advertise these extras releases?

Should we go in that direction, it would require an additional database entry for a film such as "The Killing" because if we were to list "Killer's Kiss" exclusively in the Bundle IDs field, the main feature would be overridden with the Bundle ID statistics. Would this be extra work? Sure, but it *could* be worth doing.

At what point do we draw the line, though, especially when it comes to making-of documentaries or short films? I understand that some of Bergman's making-of's are rather popular. Regarding short films, it's one thing, in my opinion, to create Blu-ray IDs if a short film is part of the main feature. Let's take the "Pierre Etaix" set, for example. Three of the main releases are 15 minute releases. What about a set like By Brakhage, though? Do we create Master movie ID bundles for each one, as well as Blu-ray IDs? That's going to be 50 something entries.

We do have the rare exception with the "Bruce Lee" set, where Svet reviewed "Game of Death II", as well as the special edition of "Enter the Dragon", so we have two additional entries for those (7 in total), where it would ordinarily be 5.

What about the recent release, "Memories of Murder", for example. Do we create an additional "Memories of Murder" entry and an entry for "Incoherence", the BJH short?

Actually, let's take this even one more step forward outside of the Criterion realm. When Disney releases their short film volumes, should we create an entry for each short?

You guys may also be wondering why we have three entries for a film like "Persona". Two of these are the standalone releases -- one Dual-Format release (now discontinued) and one the single-disc re-release (in-print). The other is supposed to be representative of the "Ingmar Bergman's Cinema" release, as Criterion provided alternative artwork and, in keeping with the theme of the other releases in that set, I decided to create a separate entry. Would it have been the same as if I had merely linked the dual-format release? Probably, but isn't consistency better? What if, however, Criterion decided to remaster the film for the box set only. Creation of this entry would have definitely been more justified, as was the case with "Cries and Whispers" and "Autumn Sonata".

Anyway, enough with the ramblings. Please provide me with feedback. Thanks!

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by Vigojean

Funny how that and Renoir’s A Day in the Country are considered features but not Chaplin’s The Pilgrim.

By whom?

[Vigojean]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Sherlock Jr. is with Cohen.

Yeah I found out recently, but I’d have preferred if it was released alongside The Cameraman, which would’ve been a must-buy for me. I saw Sherlock Jr on DVD recently and it had this annoying modern score. I hope it’s not the same one of the Blu-ray

[gbm82]

Originally Posted by Vigojean

Yeah I found out recently, but I’d have preferred if it was released alongside The Cameraman, which would’ve been a must-buy for me. I saw Sherlock Jr on DVD recently and it had this annoying modern score. I hope it’s not the same one of the Blu-ray

from the review on this site

Sherlock Jr. features a DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 track offering a new orchestral score by Timothy Brock. It's a perhaps surprisingly tame, if still playful, score, one that really doesn't go for any over boisterous orchestration, but which kind of ambles along genially enough. Fidelity is excellent, and there's good separation between orchestral sections.

No idea what score is on your DVD copy...

[tatterdemalion]

Originally Posted by Scottie

To continue on my conversation from earlier...

You guys may have wondered in the past: "Why is a film like "Killer's Kiss" not listed as a Criterion release?" The reason for this is because when Criterion released "The Killing", they did not release it as "The Killing / Killer's Kiss", in similar fashion to their release of "The Shooting / Ride in the Whirlwind" or "Gates of Heaven / Vernon, Florida". As such, "Killer's Kiss" is an extra and should be treated as a bonus feature. The same could be said about "Godzilla, King of the Monsters", which I have seen being changed on countless occasions. Criterion presents this film as a second cut of the 1954 film. As such, we should treat it as nothing more than a cut in terms of the database entries.

That being said, I have often wondered if it would actually benefit the website greatly if we did deviate a bit from the rules/norms and advertise these extras releases?

Should we go in that direction, it would require an additional database entry for a film such as "The Killing" because if we were to list "Killer's Kiss" exclusively in the Bundle IDs field, the main feature would be overridden with the Bundle ID statistics. Would this be extra work? Sure, but it *could* be worth doing.

I've always been slightly bothered by this too, especially when the supplement is a full length film. The Criterion release of The Cameraman has Spite Marriage, it should be acknowledged as a film. Makes all of us who collect Buster look like we're missing that film. Same with The Killing/Killer's Kiss. I agree with you on the Godzilla. The American cut to me is just a curiosity now, which shows how you can take a pretty spooky film and turn it into a slightly goofy 1950's US monster film. I know the two John Ford westerns on Criterion has an extra film also. One, Bandit's Wager, is a short but the other one, Bucking Broadway, is over 40m, so should be counted as a film.

Shorts are tough. I think typically if you're dealing with comedians it works, especially the likes of Laurel and Hardy whose output is about 70-80% shorts.

[Vigojean]

Originally Posted by koberulz

By whom?

The Pilgrim is usually listed as a short, or at the very least, a “featurette,” but I’ve never heard it being called a feature. Usually when people list Chaplin’s features, they go from The Kid to A Woman of Paris, etc. The Pilgrim is usually paired with stuff like Shoulder Arms and Sunnyside as a “long short.”

In any case, side note: Andre Bazin ranked The Pilgrim among the 10 greatest films of all time, and it’s certainly become my favorite Chaplin film. And yes, I wish it were longer lol

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Vigojean

Yeah I found out recently, but I’d have preferred if it was released alongside The Cameraman, which would’ve been a must-buy for me. I saw Sherlock Jr on DVD recently and it had this annoying modern score. I hope it’s not the same one of the Blu-ray

There are multiple factors at work. The Cameraman is still under copyright by Warner, as is Spite Marriage, which also appears on the Criterion. If there was anything "missing" from that release, it would have been the third film in that grouping, Free and Easy, which was on the TCM Archives: Buster Keaton Collection DVD along with the other two.

Sherlock Jr. was part of a group of earlier Metro and UA Keaton films. Prints of them were collected by Raymond Rohauer, some of them Keaton's own copies, some from other sources. As far as I know, they are the best elements available for these films. This collection was the source for Kino's DVDs and Blu-rays. A decade ago, the Cohen Media Group acquired the Rohauer Collection (several hundred films).

Given that Cohen owns these elements, they are unlikely to be available from any other label. Eureka has released these Keaton films on Blu-ray in the UK as part of their Masters of Cinema line, but they are from masters licensed from Cohen. So, if you want Sherlock Jr on Blu-ray, you have to get the Cohen release. Or Eureka's, which will be the same as Cohen's. Or find an OOP copy of Kino's, which will be an earlier master.

[Vigojean]

I’m eager to see more Almodovar titles in the collection. I can’t think of another director who got better with age. His 1980-1997 output is good, but after 1999 he became a master filmmaker. Guess he finally ate his Wheaties. Talk to Her, Bad Education, and The Skin I Live In are my favorites.

[mmarczi]

I'd love to see Volver, Talk to Her, The Skin I Live In, etc. in the collection. Even Pain and Glory even though I already own it on disc, depending on what they can add to it.

[bergman864]

It'd be nice to have Bad Education and The Skin I Live In in the collection since the former has no US release and the latter is OOP.

[koberulz]

Literally just watched The Skin I Live In for the first time two hours ago, on one of the movie channels here. It's OOP? Well isn't that just delightful.

[Vigojean]

It’s a shame Almodovar hasn’t made a coming of age movie, because he’d be great. The childhood scenes in Bad Education and Pain and Glory are fantastic. I liked the movie-within-a-movie in Bad Education better than the ACTUAL movie.

[blurayisnice]

Does anyone know a webshop where I can get replacement 2-disc scanavo cases?

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by Vigojean

I’m eager to see more Almodovar titles in the collection. I can’t think of another director who got better with age. His 1980-1997 output is good, but after 1999 he became a master filmmaker. Guess he finally ate his Wheaties. Talk to Her, Bad Education, and The Skin I Live In are my favorites.

Talk to Her has always stayed in my heart and mind as one of the best films I've ever seen. I think I've only seen it 2, maybe 3 times, though, and it has been a good long time. I guess I've been waiting for a Blu-ray to re-visit the film and it just hasn't come. It amazes me that outside of a few mentions here and there, the films seems to be somewhat forgotten. One of the best screenplays ever, IMO.

I do ok in Spanish and have asked the mariachis who roam table to table at Mexican restaurants to play Cucurrucucu Paloma, which I would never be aware of, if not for Talk to Her. They're always shocked and surprised that I know the song and can ask for it in Spanish.

Beautiful song, though. Great film.

[Dr. Zaius]

Originally Posted by blurayisnice

Does anyone know a webshop where I can get replacement 2-disc scanavo cases?

https://www.casetopia.com/category_s/1820.htm

[Vigojean]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

Talk to Her has always stayed in my heart and mind as one of the best films I've ever seen. I think I've only seen it 2, maybe 3 times, though, and it has been a good long time. I guess I've been waiting for a Blu-ray to re-visit the film and it just hasn't come. It amazes me that outside of a few mentions here and there, the films seems to be somewhat forgotten. One of the best screenplays ever, IMO.

Hmm...according to They Shoot Pictures, the movie is consistently ranked among the greatest films of the 21st century, and I believe the screenplay won an Oscar.

This and Bad Education deserve an immediate Blu-ray release.

[captainron_howdy]

I don't know why its taken so long for Talk to Her but, I'd imagine it's coming soon. Mother was Jan of 2020, I'm thinking which ever title is coming next will be in one the next couple of announcements. Hoping for Talk to Her but I would't be dis-satisfied at all if it's Bad Education.

[misterlibby]

Yeah, they gotta get back to the Almodovar catalog. There are no bad choices, Criterion, just get something on the schedule!

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by Vigojean

Hmm...according to They Shoot Pictures, the movie is consistently ranked among the greatest films of the 21st century, and I believe the screenplay won an Oscar.

This and Bad Education deserve an immediate Blu-ray release.

sure. that's fine. it ranks 374 on TSPDT. as someone who has been a member on this site for 7+ years, I can tell you that even on a thread like this one, this is probably the most love shown for the film w/ Almodóvar holding as the topic of discussion here for a page and a half or so.

nobody's pining for Talk To Her like they are for Hard Eight, more films by David Lynch or David Cronenberg, or like they did incessantly for The Tree of Life. that's what I meant.

[CRASHLANDING]

Originally Posted by Vigojean

Hmm...according to They Shoot Pictures, the movie is consistently ranked among the greatest films of the 21st century, and I believe the screenplay won an Oscar.

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

sure. that's fine. it ranks 374 on TSPDT.

It ranks 374 on TSPDT's all-time list, but 25th on their list of most acclaimed 21st century films. Regardless, like you I'm glad to see some support for a BD sooner rather than later!