Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.)

[JNagarya]

Originally Posted by Torrente

I've been told that the texts printed in books left unread for too long, disappear little by little... page after page

You probably read that somewhere.

[JNagarya]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

yes, which is why I said you make a backup of each HD (plus you still have the discs and most won't go bad so those are extra extra backups except potentially for UHD if the decrpt server ever goes down)

If you have it, look at your "Goodfellas" disc.

[JNagarya]

Originally Posted by RedbeardS

Here's demonlover bringing up the rear.

No, I don't smoke or have radiation in the house, but I'm impressed with your sleuthing. Thank you for taking the time to help me troubleshoot.

Like I said, I have many more blu-rays and only two or three others developed marks and became unplayable. And those were from that infamous first batch of Criterion releases.

As I've followed this thread, and a link here or there, I've done some checks of specifically identified disks, such as from Media Asia, and found them bronzing. I had one that has been identified as defective still sealed in the packaging; removed the packaging, and it is bronzing.

I've begun looking at random US releases, and it appears my copy of "Goodfellas" is bronzing.

The "offgassing" that would affect the internals of discs would not be from any external source. It isn't the booklets, or the cases: the discs themselves are defective, as is evidenced by the fact that the defects are internal to the disc.

This is economically alarming for those who are not flush with cash. I have thousands of disks, and have been replacing DVDs with Blu-Rays -- both for the improved quality of image and sound, and to save shelf space. (I use metal racks, so no "offgassing" from those.)

[JNagarya]

Originally Posted by Aunt Peg

My Cruising & Demonlover are fine. I too purchased them both when first released.

I'll check my Irma Vep and report back, though I didn't purchase Irma Vep until about a year after its release.

I replaced my DVD of "Irma Vep" with the Criterion, and weighing how to liquidate all the DVDs I've replaced with Blu-Ray. Now I not only have a ton of vinyl occupying otherwise-useful space, having been replaced by CD, but a semi-ton of DVDs occupying space which may have to kept to replace defective Blu-Rays.

The scope of this -- apparently across all labels -- results in a massive jaw-dropping shock disbelief about the amount of historically-relevant data worldwide being destroyed.

[JNagarya]

Originally Posted by jjlikesonions

That's really unfortunate. I gotta check mine when I get home this weekend. Mine is in the plastic case though. (I saw in the other thread that your's was cardboard)

I think that cardboard packaging can contribute to bronzing. I had seen that theory online somewhere. My bronzed "The Personals" and "Terrorizers" were both in cardboard packaging. I really hope that "That Day on the Beach" is not next because that one was really pricey and rare.

If the disc is properly manufactured, nothing external could cause the internal bronzing (and other issues). That points to possible "offgassing" of the materials used in the manufacture.

[JNagarya]

Originally Posted by alek2702

Just found out my UK copy of The Departed has gone bad on me (Goodfellas was another one a couple of years ago).

Amazon's saying they can't do anything after ten years obviously.. Any chance someone here has contact details for Entertainment in Video? Seems their website just redirects to their YT page nowadays..

I'll have to check my US copy of "The Departed". I'm loathe to check the many Warner Blu-Rays I have.

These are titles I'd already pulled -- which eventually lead to me doing a search on "defective blu-ray discs":

"Yankee Doodle Dandy" (Warner Archive) -- freezes.
"Platoon" ((MGM) -- freezes.
"Chinatown" (Paramount) -- freezes.
"Lady in the Water" (Warner) -- thoroughly bronzed -- could take top prizes if "bronzing" were a competitive contest.
"Shoot 'Em Up" (New Line) -- loads to menu, unresponsive to interactions.
"Lolita" (Jeremy Irons) (Lions Gate) -- doesn't load/"no disc" -- and this is a standard DVD.

All of those were fine through multiple viewings. My environment is not abnormal in terms of heat and humidity, discs are on metal wire shelves (which allows free movement of air, as to "offgassing"), near no heat sources, and out of reach of sunlight.

[JNagarya]

Originally Posted by Freeza

My comment of "ridiculous" all those years ago was regarding what you mention, that they merged everything into one thread when it should have been kept separate. They also didn't just merge, they deleted a lot of posts.

I was part of that early version of the thread, and one who identified a number of the faulty Criterions. I also agree that it should have been kept label specific, with further threads created if subsequent labels began showing similar issues. Those in charge at the time felt differently (to me it seemed as if they were trying to bury a bad look for Criterion), and no amount of reasoning was going to change that.

I've spent the better part of the weekend and past several days/evenings reading the entire thread.

It would have been easier for everyone if there were a "master" page with links to independent threads specific to each label. As it is, I find myself jumping around, without a plan, instead of cutting to the chase of a given label.

[JNagarya]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

you can test them on a PC for sector errors and file hash mismatches, much faster and more accurate than watching

if it;s super bronzed any method works as it won't load into anything and you'll know instantly, if it's a little bit bronzed than PC method is fastest and easily the most accurate

The purpose of the discs is to put them in blu-ray players, press "Play," and watch the video content.

The best test is to play them in one or more different blu-ray players.

If the contents don't load, or freezes, then the disc is the probable culprit. If it will play in some players but not others, the issue is more likely the player.

As for testing on PC: I invite you to read the whole thread for the results of that method: depending on the testing software, one gets different results given the same PC blu-ray drive and disc. Or it finds errors, but the disc plays properly.

In sum, one should not have to go to extraordinary lengths to determine whether a blu-ray disc will or won't function in one or more blu-ray players.

[Aunt Peg]

Originally Posted by JNagarya

This thread began as exclusive to Criterion titles.

It should have been kept that way.

Ideally there would be separate lists of discs by individual manufacturers.

Interesting that the non-Criterion issue is viewed as being "intruded upon" by the original focus of the thread.

Given there are more and more reports of disc failures as the years go on maybe the MODS can set up a new section and then break it down into companies.

Edit: JNagarya - Just saw the post where you said what I accidentally repeated.

[Jobla]

My Paramount Blu-ray of CHINATOWN still plays fine. I have the slipcover edition from 2012.

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by JNagarya

The purpose of the discs is to put them in blu-ray players, press "Play," and watch the video content.

The best test is to play them in one or more different blu-ray players.

If the contents don't load, or freezes, then the disc is the probable culprit. If it will play in some players but not others, the issue is more likely the player.

As for testing on PC: I invite you to read the whole thread for the results of that method: depending on the testing software, one gets different results given the same PC blu-ray drive and disc. Or it finds errors, but the disc plays properly.

In sum, one should not have to go to extraordinary lengths to determine whether a blu-ray disc will or won't function in one or more blu-ray players.

well one of my PC drives went bad and when I went back and tested some discs that showed problems with the original drive, they all had the exact same bad sectors shown on the second drive

using a standalone player, you need to watch the entire movie and all extras and all alternate audio tracks and with and without commentary, etc. etc. to be sure and you might miss small glitches if you lose focus for a bit

[JNagarya]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

well one of my PC drives went bad and when I went back and tested some discs that showed problems with the original drive, they all had the exact same bad sectors shown on the second drive

using a standalone player, you need to watch the entire movie and all extras and all alternate audio tracks and with and without commentary, etc. etc. to be sure and you might miss small glitches if you lose focus for a bit

I put the disc in the player and press play, in the same room with the HDTV in front of me. If the main feature freezes, there is no reason to look beyond it. The disc is defective.

If you don't want to watch the film, then don't put the disc in the player. What does it matter if a disc is defective if you aren't going to watch its content anyway?

And as the defect is INTERNAL, the defect is NOT caused by anything EXTERNAL, barring abuse or radically excessive heat -- or existing disc defect.

[Clown1500]

London Has Fallen (Universal, released in 2016) - bronzing; playback issues near end. IFPI KKOR

[gpm]

Bummer!

just unwrapped mine from several years ago and looks fine even though it has a Digital HD insert, or are these made from acid free paper?

Regardless, thanks for the heads up, guess I better watch it while I can.

[neo_reloaded]

I don't think one report of one copy bronzing means all copies of this BD are going to bronze...

From the way some bronzed discs are still readable, it seems like bronzing is a degradation of the scratch-resistant coating on discs. Sometimes it's to such an extent that the laser cannot penetrate, and other times it's not. It might also relate to single-layer vs. dual-layer discs; both can bronze, based on reports, but the laser reading through the bronzing to one layer is likely easier than the laser reading through the bronzing to both layers.

As for what causes bronzing, it's tough to say exactly. There was a period of widespread bronzing for certain replicators in the 2009-2012 range, likely due to a specific ingredient they were using or a specific step of the curing process. That widespread bronzing seems long-resolved. The remaining reports are extremely sporadic. There are countless millions of discs for thousands and thousands of releases manufactured by the Technicolor Mexico plant (IFPI KK**), and yet we've only seen one-off reports of individual discs, with no recognizable movie or timeframe pattern. The idea that there's some widespread problem with that plant just does not hold up to scrutiny - their discs are so ever-present that Blu-ray as a format would crumble in North America if Technicolor Mexico really had widespread problems. Same for the presence of digital copy paper slips - they're in millions and millions of cases. The one-off reports of bronzing are as rare or more rare than the one-off reports of discs with other flaws - bubbling on the edge, physically fine looking but dead, etc. No manufacturing process has a 100% success rate, and it's likely that some degree of improperly mixed/cured scratch-resistant coating application occurs as well - maybe on the batch level, maybe on the disc level (last few discs manufactured before a fresh batch of the coating is created, perhaps, like how gas at the bottom of the tank has higher water content?).

Checking your discs is fine and gives us more data to work with, but please keep all of this in perspective.

[gpm]

Thanks! I didn't know about it until I joined here, but had no BDs at the time, so dismissed it. After seeing this though, Googled to learn more and surprised it began with CDs, so with 100s going back to '84, did a random check with nothing looking 'odd', nor had any problems listening to a few tracks of each, so for now not planning on losing any sleep over it; instead really p****d/'stumped' that a significant number of DVDs that haven't made it to BD [yet] have quit working to some extent or won't even boot up and show no discoloration/whatever either.

Since the BD player works otherwise, if a bit 'clunky' [Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD] on some newer BDs, no clue what to do about either and the local repair place is a many decades long time known ripoff if not doing authorized warranty repair/replacement.

[KPackratt2k]

My Blu-ray copy of Jingle All The Way: Family Fun Edition no longer plays. What happens now is it shows a solid black screen for a minute after the loading circle screen, it shows the "Theatrical Cut" and "Extended Edition" buttons over the black screen, but I can't select anything, it freezes at that point.

Admittedly, I knew it wouldn't last long because it would occasionally freeze during the trailers the last times I've played it and the extended cut would freeze at times.

It was the original pressing from 2008, I bought it at Goodwill for $5 a couple years ago, I've noticed it had bronzing when compared to another Blu-ray disc in my collection, so I guess that's how it died. I'm about to buy another copy on Amazon. Hopefully my new copy will play.

[JNagarya]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

I don't think one report of one copy bronzing means all copies of this BD are going to bronze...

From the way some bronzed discs are still readable, it seems like bronzing is a degradation of the scratch-resistant coating on discs. Sometimes it's to such an extent that the laser cannot penetrate, and other times it's not. It might also relate to single-layer vs. dual-layer discs; both can bronze, based on reports, but the laser reading through the bronzing to one layer is likely easier than the laser reading through the bronzing to both layers.

As for what causes bronzing, it's tough to say exactly. There was a period of widespread bronzing for certain replicators in the 2009-2012 range, likely due to a specific ingredient they were using or a specific step of the curing process. That widespread bronzing seems long-resolved. The remaining reports are extremely sporadic. There are countless millions of discs for thousands and thousands of releases manufactured by the Technicolor Mexico plant (IFPI KK**), and yet we've only seen one-off reports of individual discs, with no recognizable movie or timeframe pattern. The idea that there's some widespread problem with that plant just does not hold up to scrutiny - their discs are so ever-present that Blu-ray as a format would crumble in North America if Technicolor Mexico really had widespread problems. Same for the presence of digital copy paper slips - they're in millions and millions of cases. The one-off reports of bronzing are as rare or more rare than the one-off reports of discs with other flaws - bubbling on the edge, physically fine looking but dead, etc. No manufacturing process has a 100% success rate, and it's likely that some degree of improperly mixed/cured scratch-resistant coating application occurs as well - maybe on the batch level, maybe on the disc level (last few discs manufactured before a fresh batch of the coating is created, perhaps, like how gas at the bottom of the tank has higher water content?).

Checking your discs is fine and gives us more data to work with, but please keep all of this in perspective.

The bronzing is internal.

[Mediton]

I can say that "The Haunting in Connecticut" and "Stir of Echoes" are gone.

[enix2093]

I joined just to report I'm a victim of First Blood having bronzing and air bubbles from the Lionsgate 2008 trilogy box set, as well as Evil Dead 2 (2011 '25th Anniversary Edition'). Rambo 3 from the box set has turned a shade of bronze but has no issues yet.

I'm going throug my collection now to see what else has turned.