The Criterion Collection

[Driver78]

Maybe we'll get a Fox title today. French Connection anyone?

[Gacivory]

Whatever movies we get someone will be disappointed.

[Professor Echo]

Bertolucci:
The girl wasn't mature enough to understand what was going on.

Yeah, blame the woman and then don't even refer to her by her name. What a stand up guy he was.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Driver78

Maybe we'll get a Fox title today. French Connection anyone?

Without pastels and edited language please.

[Driver78]

Originally Posted by Gacivory

Whatever movies we get someone will be disappointed.

It's OK. I wouldn't want to live in a world where everyone liked the same thing

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Without pastels and edited language please.

Sad that it takes a Director's passing to get a home video release done properly.

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by Driver78

It's OK. I wouldn't want to live in a world where everyone liked the same thing

I agree, little buddy.

[Brad1963]

SPINE #1 needs to get back in print.

L5fZBJQOnY606k47INf8z9f5ecBFn3_large.jpg


The Lionsgate BD appears to be OOP. Time for a 4k upgrade.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Driver78

Sad that it takes a Director's passing to get a home video release done properly.

Friedkin was still living when the edited language version was reported, but he was uncharacteristically silent about it. Maybe he wasn't in very good shape health wise at the time to address it publicly.

[duggie walker]

Originally Posted by koberulz

"Rape" typically requires actual penetration or the like, but "sexual assault" fits just fine.

I think there's some understandable confusion here.

As I understand it, the scene was in the script but the use of butter was a new element that Brando and Bertolucci came up with.

There's no doubt that this was manipulative at best and would absolutely NOT fly these days. Clearly they felt that Schneider needed to be surprised to evince the emotional reaction they wanted. Sadly, this pretentious and abusive methodology was fairly common in those days.

As a lesser example, remember that William Friedkin fired a gun (!) in a small room to elicit a "realistic" look of shock from actors in THE EXORCIST. I can assure you that would not fly these days either.

95 percent of these abuses you will never hear of but they were commonplace in an era where the greatness of a Director was often measured by his willingness to be extreme. Cast and crew were frequently put into dangerous situations and, as we know, many animals died along the way. The common wisdom was that pain and humiliation are brief but "Film is Forever".

So you can deplore the behaviour without buying into the nonsense I've seen on the internet, with repeated claims that Schneider was penetrated, which is completely untrue. She used the word "rape" of course but then so did Brando, who also had problems with the way he was treated by Bertolucci, who frequently tried to "surprise" actors in order to create a moment.

The notion that Schneider was "ruined" by this moment alone is similar to the idea, touted widely, that Shelley Duvall's treatment on the set of The Shining led to her subsequent mental breakdown many years later. In fact, Schneider always claimed that the more traumatic element of her experience on Last Tango In Paris was to do with the notoriety attached to it and the fact that the predominantly male press were obsessed with her "sex-kitten" image. She felt completely misrepresented and subsequently typecast. But she remained proud of her work on Last Tango and whilst she bore a grudge against Bertolucci, she remained friends with Brando throughout her life, which would seem odd if her claims of rape were other than a hyperbolic way of making a very valid point about the way women were treated in those days.

The way women in particular and actors/crew in general were treated in the last century left a lot to be desired. I'm certain if we knew half of it and decided to boycott films on that basis, very few of our favourite films would survive the scrutiny. We seem to be particularly exacerbated with incidents involving girls and women and yet completely blase about how many actual people died or nearly died in the production of films on every continent.

And I do wonder how many of the people outraged by the actions of Polanski, Bertolucci et al and encouraging boycotts on this basis are also outraged by the BBFC policy on cutting horsefalls and animal cruelty. It all seems rather selective and morality seems to shift depending on how much we value the films in question.

Look, it ultimately comes down to what we can personally bear. I had to abandon watching KHARTOUM recently because I just couldn't watch the brutal horsefalls without feeling genuine anxiety. But I'm not going to advocate that people don't watch KHARTOUM because I'm aware that there are some fairly nefarious things in many of the films I watch that don't trigger me but might well be unbearable to others, depending on their life experiences.

We should take some comfort in the fact that things are, by and large, very different today, in many areas of life, albeit still short of perfect. I think LAST TANGO IN PARIS is a beautiful and - yes - important film that expanded the language of sexuality in cinema but it is certainly an artefact of a different world. But we can't go down this road of retrospective censorship without literally erasing the history of not just cinema but humankind in general. In this moment, we should resist that aggressively, even at the cost of some personal pain.

[apricissimus]

That's a great essay, but I'm not sure if anyone is trying to censor the movie.

For my part, I can choose not to watch it.

[Olmo]

Originally Posted by duggie walker

I think there's some understandable confusion here.

As I understand it, the scene was in the script but the use of butter was a new element that Brando and Bertolucci came up with.

There's no doubt that this was manipulative at best and would absolutely NOT fly these days. Clearly they felt that Schneider needed to be surprised to evince the emotional reaction they wanted. Sadly, this pretentious and abusive methodology was fairly common in those days.

As a lesser example, remember that William Friedkin fired a gun (!) in a small room to elicit a "realistic" look of shock from actors in THE EXORCIST. I can assure you that would not fly these days either.

95 percent of these abuses you will never hear of but they were commonplace in an era where the greatness of a Director was often measured by his willingness to be extreme. Cast and crew were frequently put into dangerous situations and, as we know, many animals died along the way. The common wisdom was that pain and humiliation are brief but "Film is Forever".

So you can deplore the behaviour without buying into the nonsense I've seen on the internet, with repeated claims that Schneider was penetrated, which is completely untrue. She used the word "rape" of course but then so did Brando, who also had problems with the way he was treated by Bertolucci, who frequently tried to "surprise" actors in order to create a moment.

The notion that Schneider was "ruined" by this moment alone is similar to the idea, touted widely, that Shelley Duvall's treatment on the set of The Shining led to her subsequent mental breakdown many years later. In fact, Schneider always claimed that the more traumatic element of her experience on Last Tango In Paris was to do with the notoriety attached to it and the fact that the predominantly male press were obsessed with her "sex-kitten" image. She felt completely misrepresented and subsequently typecast. But she remained proud of her work on Last Tango and whilst she bore a grudge against Bertolucci, she remained friends with Brando throughout her life, which would seem odd if her claims of rape were other than a hyperbolic way of making a very valid point about the way women were treated in those days.

The way women in particular and actors/crew in general were treated in the last century left a lot to be desired. I'm certain if we knew half of it and decided to boycott films on that basis, very few of our favourite films would survive the scrutiny. We seem to be particularly exacerbated with incidents involving girls and women and yet completely blase about how many actual people died or nearly died in the production of films on every continent.

And I do wonder how many of the people outraged by the actions of Polanski, Bertolucci et al and encouraging boycotts on this basis are also outraged by the BBFC policy on cutting horsefalls and animal cruelty. It all seems rather selective and morality seems to shift depending on how much we value the films in question.

Look, it ultimately comes down to what we can personally bear. I had to abandon watching KHARTOUM recently because I just couldn't watch the brutal horsefalls without feeling genuine anxiety. But I'm not going to advocate that people don't watch KHARTOUM because I'm aware that there are some fairly nefarious things in many of the films I watch that don't trigger me but might well be unbearable to others, depending on their life experiences.

We should take some comfort in the fact that things are, by and large, very different today, in many areas of life, albeit still short of perfect. I think LAST TANGO IN PARIS is a beautiful and - yes - important film that expanded the language of sexuality in cinema but it is certainly an artefact of a different world. But we can't go down this road of retrospective censorship without literally erasing the history of not just cinema but humankind in general. In this moment, we should resist that aggressively, even at the cost of some personal pain.

Brilliant post.

[Professor Echo]

Great points! Is anyone not watching THE ABYSS because Cameron almost killed Ed Harris to get a scene right? Too bad Maria Schneider didn't punch out Bertolucci the way Harris did Cameron.

I can't stand animal cruelty in the world, let alone in "entertainment" media and I walked out of a rare 35mm theatrical showing of John Frankenheimer's THE HORSEMEN because of it. I also lost my enthusiasm for Tarkovsky after the suffering of all the animals on display in ANDREI RUBLEV. I don't have many issues with British censorship of animal abuse in films.

We all pick and choose our standards and have them tested nearly everyday by various challenges, which is why it's never a good idea to be a slave to standards and principles because sooner or later you will find occasion to betray your vehement loyalty to them.

[RevolverOcelScott]

Originally Posted by nicwood

My title predictions:

Memento 4K

Had there been rumors or anything about this? I own the blu, but have been itching for a re-watch.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by -Naughty Boy

Now the girls don't mind: Lily Phillips says she has no regrets about sleeping with 100 men in one day.

Sorry I had to Google her as I had no idea who she was. I wouldn't expect a lot of spoken regrets about screen sex from a still working porn actress given as how it's her job and it wouldn't make much sense for her to disparage it and alienate potential opportunities, paydays and fans. Give it time, she'll find religion, write a book and do a book tour in front of audiences who will shake their heads in disgust and pity.

[HipsterTrash]

Originally Posted by Gacivory

Whatever movies we get someone will be disappointed.

Anything to change up the dour and tactless talking points some certain people are focused on.

Remember when people said Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles was the best film ever? Good times.

[RevolverOcelScott]

Twin Peaks: The Entire Series 4K
Eyes Wide Shut 4K
High and Low 4K
Another new Godzilla 4K

My hopes, but not backed by anything.

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by RevolverOcelScott

Had there been rumors or anything about this? I own the blu, but have been itching for a re-watch.

No, it’s just my guess however the film was restored in 2023/24 and would’ve surely been released by another label in the meantime. This is a perfect title for Criterion, just like Bound. I’ve already had a feeling a while ago that they may have it. Maybe they’ll pair it with a Following upgrade, which would undoubtedly do very well for them.

[Rayjg]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Great points! Is anyone not watching THE ABYSS because Cameron almost killed Ed Harris to get a scene right? Too bad Maria Schneider didn't punch out Bertolucci the way Harris did Cameron.

I can't stand animal cruelty in the world, let alone in "entertainment" media and I walked out of a rare 35mm theatrical showing of John Frankenheimer's THE HORSEMEN because of it. I also lost my enthusiasm for Tarkovsky after the suffering the animals on display in ANDREI RUBLEV. I don't have many issues with British censorship of animal abuse in films.

We all pick and choose our standards and have them tested nearly everyday by various challenges, which is why it's never a good idea to be a slave to standards and principles because sooner or later you will find occasion to betray your vehement loyalty to them.

I keep hearing about the horse, and understandably so, but what about that poor dog that gets brained to death? Poor thing is yiping it's head off for a good minute. Yeah it is mostly off screen but we're talking Tarkovsky here so it most likely was real. Probably went through a whole litter to get the right take. He was no animal lover.

[Professor Echo]

Hopes And Wishes:

THE BLACK STALLION (4K)
NEVER CRY WOLF (4K)
THE BAD SLEEP WELL (4K)
CAPTAIN BLOOD (4K)
PUBLIC ENEMY (4K)
THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO ST. MATTHEW (4K)
COTTON COMES TO HARLEM (4K)
THE LOVES OF PHARAOH (4K)
PROOF (1991/4K)

[apricissimus]

Originally Posted by Rayjg

I keep hearing about the horse, and understandably so, but what about that poor dog that gets brained to death? Poor thing is yiping it's head off for a good minute. Yeah it is mostly off screen but we're talking Tarkovsky here so it most likely was real. Probably went through a whole litter to get the right take. He was no animal lover.

I believe Tarkovski killed a cow that the boy used for cover from gunfire in Come and See. (Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.)