2025 Major League Baseball Thread

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by StereoMike

Aaron Sele?

http://bbwaa.com/

Hah, 6 voters voted for Julio Franco. Guess they value longevity.

Don't recall who it was but there was a player some years ago who actually campaigned for once voter to vote for him on the HOF ballot despite his numbers clearly not being close to worthy. And it worked, he got one vote.

[Hatter]

Morris at 67.7%, David Wells gets one vote.

That makes no sense whatsoever. David Wells and Morris are essentially the same pitcher. The way some players go from meh to suddenly becoming near or outright hall of famers by staying on the ballot forever can be very confusing. I'm hoping Walker takes advantage of that but he would actually be much more deserving over guys like Morris, Dawson and Rice.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

And he played from 1977-1994. Nearly all of that time was in the dead ball era. A 3.90 ERA isn't a HOF number for a starter in that era. His post-season ERA was almsot identical at 3.80. Not a single season of his career was his ERA under 3.00 and he never once finished 1st or 2nd in the Cy Young vote. I'm sorry but that isn't a HOF career.

As I said before

The biggest argument against Morris is that his 3.90 ERA would be the highest in the Hall of Fame — Red Ruffing's 3.80 currently being the highest.

But of the 70 pitchers in the Hall of Fame, Morris would be tied for 30th with 254 victories.

He also would rank 18th with 2,478 strikeouts.

So while he would trail the pack with his elevated earned run average, he'd be well positioned in other categories.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by R3P0

As I said before

In 15 of 18 seasons Morris pitched he was on a team with a winning record. He was on consistently very good Tigers teams and World Series winners in 1984 and 1991-1993. Even with all that his win% was only .577 and he won 253 games. The only stat he frequently led the AL in was wild pitches - 6 times. His win total has more to do with being on a lot of quality teams than anything else. On a less talented team his career record would probably look more like Chuck Finley's.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...inlech01.shtml

[sycro]

There's no chance Maddux isn't first ballot next year, right? And Glavine should be, right?

Planning to make a trip to Cooperstown then, and while I'll have plenty of time to plan it after they announce, it's still worth considering.

[fatediesel]

Originally Posted by sycro

There's no chance Maddux isn't first ballot next year, right? And Glavine should be, right?

Planning to make a trip to Cooperstown then, and while I'll have plenty of time to plan it after they announce, it's still worth considering.

Maddux, Glavine, and Frank Thomas will easily make it next year. Maddux and Glavine are both 300 game winners and Frank Thomas has over 500 home runs and the only way you don't go into the hall with those numbers is if there are PED concerns, and none of those players have ever been linked to PEDs in any way. Buster Olney of ESPN thinks Mike Mussina and Jeff Kent should make it first ballot as well, but I'd be a little surprised if either of them were first ballot. I'd expect Craig Biggio to make it next year and possibly Jack Morris in his final year on the ballot.

[sycro]

Originally Posted by fatediesel

Maddux, Glavine, and Frank Thomas will easily make it next year. Maddux and Glavine are both 300 game winners and Frank Thomas has over 500 home runs and the only way you don't go into the hall with those numbers is if there are PED concerns, and none of those players have ever been linked to PEDs in any way. Buster Olney of ESPN thinks Mike Mussina and Jeff Kent should make it first ballot as well, but I'd be a little surprised if either of them were first ballot. I'd expect Craig Biggio to make it next year and possibly Jack Morris in his final year on the ballot.

Kent and Mussina are both interesting. I think both should make it, but if Biggio isn't first ballot, neither are they. I could also see Kent being one of those guys that falls through the cracks for years and may end up like Murphy relying on the Veterans Committee.

Can you imagine though what next year COULD look like for the Braves organization? Maddux and Glavine will surely go in as Braves (Glavine is certain, Maddux split his career evenly between Chicago and Atlanta, but his prime was mostly with the Braves). Plus Bobby Cox and Dale Murphy will both be up for Veterans Committee vote.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by sycro

Kent and Mussina are both interesting. I think both should make it, but if Biggio isn't first ballot, neither are they. I could also see Kent being one of those guys that falls through the cracks for years and may end up like Murphy relying on the Veterans Committee.

Can you imagine though what next year COULD look like for the Braves organization? Maddux and Glavine will surely go in as Braves (Glavine is certain, Maddux split his career evenly between Chicago and Atlanta, but his prime was mostly with the Braves). Plus Bobby Cox and Dale Murphy will both be up for Veterans Committee vote.

Maddux and Glavin need to go in as Braves anything else is injustice

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by fatediesel

Maddux, Glavine, and Frank Thomas will easily make it next year. Maddux and Glavine are both 300 game winners and Frank Thomas has over 500 home runs and the only way you don't go into the hall with those numbers is if there are PED concerns, and none of those players have ever been linked to PEDs in any way. Buster Olney of ESPN thinks Mike Mussina and Jeff Kent should make it first ballot as well, but I'd be a little surprised if either of them were first ballot. I'd expect Craig Biggio to make it next year and possibly Jack Morris in his final year on the ballot.

I think Olney is dead wrong on Mussina and Kent. Kent was a jerk who was hated by the media, which they will hold against him. If he makes it it won't be first ballot. Mussina I'm guessing ends up around 50-60% of the vote tops. There's no way that guy is first ballot. Mussina played on loaded Yankee teams for 8 years and still never even won a ring. He was unimpressive in big games too, going 7-8 in the playoffs with a so-so ERA.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by sycro

Kent and Mussina are both interesting. I think both should make it, but if Biggio isn't first ballot, neither are they. I could also see Kent being one of those guys that falls through the cracks for years and may end up like Murphy relying on the Veterans Committee.

Can you imagine though what next year COULD look like for the Braves organization? Maddux and Glavine will surely go in as Braves (Glavine is certain, Maddux split his career evenly between Chicago and Atlanta, but his prime was mostly with the Braves). Plus Bobby Cox and Dale Murphy will both be up for Veterans Committee vote.

I still can't believe McGriff fairs so poorly on the ballot, hovering around 20%. I've always thought he was at lwast a marginal HOF player. And he obviously didn't cheat as he was never all that bulky for a power hitter.

[sycro]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

I still can't believe McGriff fairs so poorly on the ballot, hovering around 20%. I've always thought he was at lwast a marginal HOF player. And he obviously didn't cheat as he was never all that bulky for a power hitter.

Yeah. McGriff's problem is that he was solid-to-very good for so long, but he was never the top player at his own position. Heck, he only made 4 All-Star games.

[supersix4]

If Andruw Jones can just hit 14 homers for 5 more years he'll be top25 in home runs

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

I think Olney is dead wrong on Mussina and Kent. Kent was a jerk who was hated by the media, which they will hold against him. If he makes it it won't be first ballot. Mussina I'm guessing ends up around 50-60% of the vote tops. There's no way that guy is first ballot. Mussina played on loaded Yankee teams for 8 years and still never even won a ring. He was unimpressive in big games too, going 7-8 in the playoffs with a so-so ERA.

You are correct, neither of those players will get in on the first ballot. Olney is smoking dope if he really thinks either will get over 50% their first year. I do think both will eventually make it, but neither are viewed as inner-circle HOFers.

[sycro]

I never realized this:

Glavine had only 1 less top 2 Cy Young finish than Greg Maddux (4 to 5), and only 1 less top 3 (6 to 7). Glavine finished 2nd once and 3rd twice during the four years Maddux won. Imagine what Glavine's numbers would look like if Maddux hadn't pitched during the same time.

[StereoMike]

Mike Mussina will be first ballot. You can all

[fatediesel]

Originally Posted by supersix4

If Andruw Jones can just hit 14 homers for 5 more years he'll be top25 in home runs

Andruw Jones will never play another MLB game.

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by fatediesel

Andruw Jones will never play another MLB game.

He better. Otherwise he owes me something for the autographed game used jersey I have

[sycro]

Originally Posted by supersix4

He better. Otherwise he owes me something for the autographed game used jersey I have

Only thing he's hitting nowadays is his wife. Or soon to be ex-wife.

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by sycro

Only thing he's hitting nowadays is his wife. Or soon to be ex-wife.

zing lol

she's hitting him back in court

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by sycro

I never realized this:

Glavine had only 1 less top 2 Cy Young finish than Greg Maddux (4 to 5), and only 1 less top 3 (6 to 7). Glavine finished 2nd once and 3rd twice during the four years Maddux won. Imagine what Glavine's numbers would look like if Maddux hadn't pitched during the same time.

Well if my memory is correct I think when Maddux was available in 1993 it was the Yankees and Braves bidding on him and the Yankees offered more money. In the end he signed with Atlanta. The entire MLB landscape of the 1990's-early 00's could have been altered if Maddux signed with the Yankees.

I do think quite a few voters hesitant to vote in Glavine first ballot might be swayed in favor given Maddux will be voted in. It would look really stupid not having Glavine and Maddux going in together.