Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The first sequel and tone setter is written by Larry Kasdan... of Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark fame.

He was there when Lucas was first coming up with these plot ideas and his 2 cents were much, much better than Lucas's. They clashed creatively and Kasdan and Lucas parted ways before Return of the Jedi started shooting.

yup, which is why eps 4 and 5 are GREAT, episode 6 is ooooook, and then it just went downhill garbage from there. Lucas is a great IDEA man, but very poor at the other aspects of film making

[imsounoriginal]

Kasdan and Abrams are writing the script but they're coming up with their own ideas and storylines, they're not using Lucas' outlines at all IIRC from headlines (haven't really read much about the new movies nor seen the trailers). If Lucas is such a great idea man then why throw out what he gave them instead of developing his ideas further? People just heap loads of unnecessary hate on Lucas, it's really a shame.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Kasdan and Abrams are writing the script but they're coming up with their own ideas and storylines, they're not using Lucas' outlines at all IIRC from headlines (haven't really read much about the new movies nor seen the trailers). If Lucas is such a great idea man then why throw out what he gave them instead of developing his ideas further? People just heap loads of unnecessary hate on Lucas, it's really a shame.

because Lucas almost destroyed his own franchise... he WAS A good idea man, but got so overblown with his enormous ego that he tanked himself. the only way this series can survive going forward is fresh blood.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Kasdan and Abrams are writing the script but they're coming up with their own ideas and storylines, they're not using Lucas' outlines at all IIRC from headlines (haven't really read much about the new movies nor seen the trailers). If Lucas is such a great idea man then why throw out what he gave them instead of developing his ideas further? People just heap loads of unnecessary hate on Lucas, it's really a shame.

The problem is that Lucas is much more of a bureaucrat and businessman than a filmmaker.

Kasdan is taking ideas from the original bull sessions between he, Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Gary Kurtz, and Francis Ford Coppola that took place before, during, and after Empire.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

That's why she remembers her mother being so sad.

Maybe she remembers the two seconds after she was born and Padme "Gave up the will to live." Worst and fastest acting postpartum depression ever man.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The problem is that Lucas is much more of a bureaucrat and businessman than a filmmaker.

Kasdan is taking ideas from the original bull sessions between he, Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Gary Kurtz, and Francis Ford Coppola that took place before, during, and after Empire.

which is absolutely fantastic. the more and more I read about Star Wars and Lucas, the more it becomes apparent that Lucas isn't the great end all be all DADDY of Star Wars that we thought he was back in the day. the original stuff was a HUGE collaboration with him just being the front man. that became REALLY obvious when he solod the PT

[The Fallen Deity]

I find it quite ironic that arguably the best Star Wars film had the least involvement from Lucas.

Lawrence Kasdan and Gary Kurtz are both awesome.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by wormraper

which is absolutely fantastic. the more and more I read about Star Wars and Lucas, the more it becomes apparent that Lucas isn't the great end all be all DADDY of Star Wars that we thought he was back in the day. the original stuff was a HUGE collaboration with him just being the front man. that became REALLY obvious when he solod the PT

I think it's also why he despises the unlatered original trilogy so much. I mean he clearly hates it. He looks at them and sees so much collaboration and not enough of himself in it. So they become "rough cuts" and he adds his flavor to create dreaded SE changes which make them more his...in his own mind.

[The Fallen Deity]

I think that it's safe to say that Lucas has severe OCD.

The constant tinkering with not just the OT but the PT as well is proof of that.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

I think that it's safe to say that Lucas has severe OCD.

The constant tinkering with not just the OT but the PT as well is proof of that.

I've been a firm believer in that for over 15 years... I'm not being rude to him, but I honestly believe he has clinical OCD to a certain extent

[Steelmaker]

You know, with all the crying out from fans of wanting a collection of the original trilogy unaltered, I was wondering if anyone thinks the same as me in that despite the changes that suck in the Special Editions, there's actually quite a few additions/changes/fixes that I DO like and don't want to go back to the old unaltered versions. I think with all the griping and complaining that people do about the Special Editions, they've sort of forgotten all the actual improvements that were made.

I don't want to go back to seeing the "slugs" on the Emperor's face in ROTJ or the old "monkey witch" emperor in ESB.

I don't want to see transparent cockpits in ESB or horrible compositing lines in the Rancor scene in ROTJ.

I don't want to see the old lifeless Mos Eisley or the puppeteer's arm on the Wampa. I LOVE the extra Wampa scenes added in ESB.

I don't want to see the digital read out with actual English text instead of the "basic" alien alphabet use in the Star Wars universe.

I like the addition of the blinking eyes on the ewoks.

I like how they opened up Cloud City with all the extra scenery outside the windows.

Basically I can boil down the changes that I hate to just a handful of things..

1.) Han not shooting first. This is by far the most hated change in the Special Editions and the original Han shooting first sequence NEEDS to be reinstated! End of story!

2.) The extra Han/Jabba scene where Han steps on his tail. This entire scene is completely unnecessary and much of the dialogue is a repeat of the exchange between Greedo and Han. Get rid of it.

3.) Jedi Rocks: The CGI is awful looking and the new song is terrible! The original "Lapti-Nek" sequence needs to be reinstated.

4.) The new dragon call that Obi-Wan makes on Tatooine that scares off the Sand People. Reinstate the old one! It sounds much better!

5.) Reinstate the old celebration on Endor. In light of the events that appear to be happening with The Force Awakens, I don't think the celebration in the Special Edition works. The old ending just shows them celebrating on Endor. The new ending shows Galaxy-wide celebration with statues coming down. This indicates the end of the imperial reign which as we know now that's not the case.

6.) Put old Anakin back as a force ghost! No matter how open minded I try to be about it, having Hayden there as a force ghost simply doesn't make logical sense and anyone who tries to justify it is REALLY reaching with their logic!!

7.) Remove the Vader "No's" at the end of ROTJ. The scene worked better without them.

I guess what I'm saying is, with those crying about wanting completely unaltered versions and those who prefer the Special Editions, is there anyone else who would be happy with a sort of halfway compromise between the two?

[stvn1974]

The things that you list as not liking are enough for me to not want the things you do like.

If I have to have monkey Emperor and slugs to not have to hear Vader yell NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO then I will take them.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

You know, with all the crying out from fans of wanting a collection of the original trilogy unaltered, I was wondering if anyone thinks the same as me in that despite the changes that suck in the Special Editions, there's actually quite a few additions/changes/fixes that I DO like and don't want to go back to the old unaltered versions. I think with all the griping and complaining that people do about the Special Editions, they've sort of forgotten all the actual improvements that were made.

A lot of the changes/additions are good (or at least not harmful), but the ones that are bad are REALLY bad. The Blu-ray changes especially just feel like changing things for the hell of it, the DVD ones were kinda OK mostly (might just be cuz I kinda grew up with those versions so I'm used to them). Lucas can make whatever changes he wants, he should just make the originals available as well for those who want them.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

I guess what I'm saying is, with those crying about wanting completely unaltered versions and those who prefer the Special Editions, is there anyone else who would be happy with a sort of halfway compromise between the two?

Those who care about the unaltered trilogy don't care about the existence of a Special Edition per se, they care about the lack of the availability of the Original Trilogy in high quality. It's not an issue of "compromise," they can release as many SE's as they like so long as they also released the UOT and everyone would be happy. They'd like a UOT not only because they prefer to watch it as it originally appeared theatrically but also because they recognize the fact that from the standpoint of cinema history it's important to preserve the original release as an artifact of American film history and for posterity. It's a shame for it not to exist in high quality for public consumption for the same reason it would be a shame if a landmark piece of literature or music would suddenly become unavailable and lost forever, and only a subjectively "updated and improved" version offered in its stead.
It's for the reason that when the National Film Registry made a request to have copies of the film for preservation and Lucas sent them Special Editions, they were denied.. Which makes this quote from Lucas 30 years ago especially ironic:

People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society. The preservation of our cultural heritage may not seem to be as politically sensitive an issue as “when life begins” or “when it should be appropriately terminated,” but it is important because it goes to the heart of what sets mankind apart. Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavor. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.

These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tomorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with “fresher faces,” or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor’s lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new “original” negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires. The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely diligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control. In order to reconstruct old negatives, many archivists have had to go to Eastern bloc countries where American films have been better preserved.

In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The first sequel and tone setter is written by Larry Kasdan... of Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark fame.

He was there when Lucas was first coming up with these plot ideas and his 2 cents were much, much better than Lucas's. They clashed creatively and Kasdan and Lucas parted ways before Return of the Jedi started shooting.

FFS, stop repeating stuff that's been said and debunked earlier in the thread.


Repeating the same stuff over and over again. It's like Dory from Finding Nemo is a STAR WARS fan and posting to the internet.

[Dan_Shane]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

It's for the reason that when the National Film Registry made a request to have copies of the film for preservation and Lucas sent them Special Editions, they were denied.. Which makes this quote from Lucas 30 years ago especially ironic:

"Ironic" is a very kind word in this instance. I have never read a more (retroactively) hypocritical statement in all my Internet life.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Terminated

I wonder what the reaction would have been if Lucas had decided to do the new trilogy...

I mean would it be embraced or would people cry foul?

After the prequels, people would have been less interested than they are now. People would have been excited as it is after Jedi so you could see the old cast again but after how the last 3 films went, people wouldn't have been overly pumped like they were for Phantom Menace. That's the one advantage JJ has - they could have announced almost anyone was taking over and people would have been happy as they feel Lucas ruined thier childhood with his new films and that he should have nothing to do with Star Wars anymore. I think he is going to get a lot of undeserved credit for getting things back on track but by nature, the prequels were going to be different than the original films. Ben says it in the first film - before the dark times, before the Emperor. The tone and look of those films had to be different and I think had Lucas decides to do 7-9, he would have done a lot of the same things they are doing now since these films take place after Jedi so he is returning to a world we already know, not trying to back-track from it. I wonder how quickly that enthusiasm will wear off once the next film comes out?

[Geoff D]

Sky are going to be running all the movies on UK TV on May 4th, and they keep showing an advert that intercuts scenes from all six movies. Gives me chills every time. Gosh darn it, when all's said and done I just love Star Wars*.



*apart from the first hour and a half of Clones.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Sky are going to be running all the movies on UK TV on May 4th, and they keep showing an advert that intercuts scenes from all six movies. Gives me chills every time. Gosh darn it, when all's said and done I just love Star Wars*.



*apart from the first hour and a half of Clones.

I've started early lol.
I've been going through the BD's in the last few days.
Four down, two to go.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by wormraper

I've been a firm believer in that for over 15 years... I'm not being rude to him, but I honestly believe he has clinical OCD to a certain extent

Yeah he probably does.

It's not his fault though if he does have it.