Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Lyle_JP]

Leia's memories of her mother are easy to accept if you look at them this way: Leia's memories are of Bail Organa's wife Breha, who presumably died when Leia was young for reasons not specified.

[starr]

I didn't feel like reading through all the posts, is the new Star Wars on BR set worth buying? I'm looking at the individual purchases to get each cover.

[klauswhereareyou]

Might get the steel books if they go for like 5 bucks on black friday.

[iamsometal]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Might get the steel books if they go for like 5 bucks on black friday.

Yeah, I'd like the OT just for the cases. I'd buy that for a dollar!

[CinemaBlu]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Leia even says she just has images and feelings, not real memories.

Anyway, I'm thinking that's her natural ability in The Force Awakens, a kind of seer, not a warrior, and it's an ability she's had since she was a child but didn't know what it was. Leia was tapping into it at the very end of Jedi, no way she stopped.

I agree. Leia's abilities are sort of what Anakin's were in TPM. She may have developed those abilities but she wouldn't be a Jedi. Which is fortunate because she's too passionate and would be too susceptible to the dark side. Luke was watched over by a Jedi Master since birth and let go of all attachments before training, so there was less of a risk of him turning, and Yoda was still hesitant to train him. They would have trained her if Luke was killed or was turned, but it would have been a desperate, "worst case scenario," Hail Mary pass.

[Chiyo_chichi]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

The sooner we admit that medical malpractice by droids is a real problem, the sooner people stop losing the will to live.

Joke aside there may some truth there. Obi-wan and the gang are on the run and probably can't go to any civilized medical care center under Republic/Empire control. Seems like an easy place for stormtroopers to pick off wounded objectors. IIRC they take Padme to some Asteroid base or something. It comes off to me as a sort of small town setup, in comparison to Palpatine's tower which probably has the most state of the art medical equipment in the galaxy.

Died of a broken heart is just another way of saying lost the will to live, or to put it in concrete terms, you let your body shut down instead of trying to stay conscious,etc. It doesn't really matter anyway because I imagine the Gang just covered up the news for everyone not in the room anyway for the sake of Luke & Leia.

As far as Leia's memories, I'll tell you the answer to that when you tell me why the spaceships make noises in space? HMMMM?

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

And for the record, the maternal death rate in the U.S. is 18.5 per 100,000 live births, which is considered quite high.

And how many of those deaths have been attributed to "Acute Loss of Will to Live?" Zero - that's how many. People don't die simply because they no longer want to live. That's not how it works. This was a young, strong woman who had just given birth to two babies.

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Considering Padme was carrying twins, was living a stressful life, was just the recipient of a Force choke and was not being treated in a well-equipped hospital setting (unless one believes the robot was enough), it's actually quite believable that she died. She could have died just by going into shock.

Except she didn't. The "doctor" never said she was in shock. It said she had lost the will to live.

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Those who think this is not believable really don't know anything about childbirth.

Yeah, that must be it. It's not that having the cause of death be "she lost the will to live" is simplistic, unrealistic, and just plain lazy writing.

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

The only rationale for thinking otherwise is that in a world where body part replacement seems easy, an argument could be made that maternal death was a seldom occurring experience.

Lucas could have easily had her die from complications while giving birth. Instead he gave us what he gave us. This is a perfect example of where having someone to say "no" to him would have been tremendously helpful. He needed a Lawrence Kasdan (if not the Lawrence Kasdan.)

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by CinemaBlu

I agree. Leia's abilities are sort of what Anakin's were in TPM. She may have developed those abilities but she wouldn't be a Jedi. Which is fortunate because she's too passionate and would be too susceptible to the dark side. Luke was watched over by a Jedi Master since birth and let go of all attachments before training, so there was less of a risk of him turning, and Yoda was still hesitant to train him. They would have trained her if Luke was killed or was turned, but it would have been a desperate, "worst case scenario," Hail Mary pass.

He didn't let go of all attachments before training. If he had, he would have completed his training with Yoda instead of leaving to help his friends.

[thegoat]

I think that line is being taken a little too literally, as if Padme was committing suicide with her emotions cause she was just so sad. My thought was that it was related to stress from the sudden and total collapse of everything she knew and everything that was important to her combined with the physical stress of childbirth and the injuries she sustained on Mustafar.

Or maybe the robots were just the interns on call that night and had no idea what was going on.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Chiyo_chichi

Joke aside there may some truth there. Obi-wan and the gang are on the run and probably can't go to any civilized medical care center under Republic/Empire control. Seems like an easy place for stormtroopers to pick off wounded objectors. IIRC they take Padme to some Asteroid base or something. It comes off to me as a sort of small town setup, in comparison to Palpatine's tower which probably has the most state of the art medical equipment in the galaxy.

Died of a broken heart is just another way of saying lost the will to live, or to put it in concrete terms, you let your body shut down instead of trying to stay conscious,etc. It doesn't really matter anyway because I imagine the Gang just covered up the news for everyone not in the room anyway for the sake of Luke & Leia.

As far as Leia's memories, I'll tell you the answer to that when you tell me why the spaceships make noises in space? HMMMM?

I think people are making too big a deal of it, frankly it never even occurred to me that the way Padme died was somehow problematic or illogical until it was brought up here. I had just always assumed that somehow her life force was drained to help Vader rise, because of how Lucas juxtaposes the two events via cutting between them. (Panama Jack described it well on the last page.) Trying to take it too literally is just unnecessary, but it's the prequels; people will always hold them up to needless scrutiny so they can find something to complain about.

[CinemaBlu]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

He didn't let go of all attachments before training. If he had, he would have completed his training with Yoda instead of leaving to help his friends.

He didn't meet his friends until after he already started his training.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by thegoat

I think that line is being taken a little too literally, as if Padme was committing suicide with her emotions cause she was just so sad. My thought was that it was related to stress from the sudden and total collapse of everything she knew and everything that was important to her combined with the physical stress of childbirth and the injuries she sustained on Mustafar.

Or maybe the robots were just the interns on call that night and had no idea what was going on.

That would have been a perfectly fine interpretation had Lucas not gone out of his way to say 'no, she didn't die from the stresses of childbirth and the injuries she sustained on Mustafar'.

'Medically, she is completely healthy' wasn't just a throwaway line uttered in the background of a busy scene. It was big, melodramatic beat followed by the even bigger and more melodramatic 'She has lost the will to live'.

Those lines were terrible choices.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by CinemaBlu

He didn't meet his friends until after he already started his training.

Han and Chewie were sitting there when he started his training.

[CinemaBlu]

Originally Posted by octagon

Han and Chewie were sitting there when he started his training.

I think his training started before that, when Obi Wan was teaching Luke about the force.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by CinemaBlu

I think his training started before that, when Obi Wan was teaching Luke about the force.

He met Ben, Ben mentioned the Force, he tells Ben he can't go with him to Alderan. They find the slaughtered Jawas, find the toasted remains of Owen and Beru, they head to Mos Eisley and there they meet Han and Chewie.

I think one would have to really, really, really want it to find any training sessions in there.

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by octagon

I think one would have to really, really, really want it to find any training sessions in there.

He clearly trains with Ben on the Millennium Falcon on their way to not-Alderaan.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

He clearly trains with Ben on the Millennium Falcon on their way to not-Alderaan.

Yes, with Han and Chewie sitting there.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Leia even says she just has images and feelings, not real memories.

Anyway, I'm thinking that's her natural ability in The Force Awakens, a kind of seer, not a warrior, and it's an ability she's had since she was a child but didn't know what it was. Leia was tapping into it at the very end of Jedi, no way she stopped.

Sorry, I think statements like this are just fan rationalizations to make up for Lucas' amazing inconsistencies and lack of internal logic in his own story. Furthermore, when Luke asks the question, which was a way for him to wade into telling Leia that they're siblings, the implication is that he does remember their mother. All of which is fine, but it needed to be written around in the prequels.

And if the Jedi were so good at seeing the future via use of the Force, then how come they couldn't foresee anything and just about every decision they ever made was the wrong one?

I don't think it was Lucas' conscious decision to make the Jedi into fools, but he was sure great at doing so. If he did this purposely, especially if it was intended as a criticism of religion, then he deserves a lot more credit than he's been given. I see Yoda's statement that the Force would enable viewing the future as a bunch of bogus religious mumbo-jumbo as expressed by most religions and that has no true meaning whatsoever, akin to "if you do X, God will talk to you".

It will be interesting to see how the Force is treated in the new films. I would love it if Luke has come to reject it.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

He clearly trains with Ben on the Millennium Falcon on their way to not-Alderaan.

He trains so hard that he keeps making his lightsaber change color.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Furthermore, when Luke asks the question, which was a way for him to wade into telling Leia that they're siblings, the implication is that he does remember their mother.

Yeah, that's why he says "I have no memory of my mother."

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

The "doctor" never said she was in shock. It said she had lost the will to live.

The droids, being droids, have no understanding of the Force.

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

He's redeemed in Jedi - hence the force ghost scene at the end. Did you miss that?

Hence the line "Killing kids doesn't make him irredeemable, but killing Natalie Portman does?" Did you miss that? I highlighted it for you.

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

But yes - clearly killing Padme (especially if she was still pregnant) would have made him irredeemable in the eyes of the audience.

How is it that you've attained the ability to speak for the entire audience? And again: why does killing Padme make him "irredeemable" when the killing of children does not? How is killing Padme worse than killing children?

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

That never made sense to me that he could be redeemed

"Redemption" in this context really just means "return to the light side". It doesn't have to mean "religious absolution of sin".

Originally Posted by octagon

The problem isn't that her death isn't consistent with the real world

The person you're speaking for insists that it is.

Originally Posted by thegoat

combined with the physical stress of childbirth and the injuries she sustained on Mustafar.

Both the film and the novelization attempted to tell the audience that what happens to her is not the result of her injuries.