Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[chip75]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

How so?

They're (the special editions) not as good, so they fit in with the prequels more easily ... plus more CGI rabbits!

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Can you please explain exactly what "style" and "tone" was altered to fit the Complete Saga?

Basically just the inclusion of all of the CGI effects, and the additions that add in goofier juvenile humor (the Jawa thing in Mos Eisley, the infamously terrible "Jedi Rocks" sequence in Jedi).

Plus the things he changed retro-actively to fit the prequels-- the Hayden ghost, the redub of Boba Fett to match Jango, showing Coruscant and Naboo celebrating at the end, etc. Even my most hated change, the "NOOOO!" thing at the end of Jedi, is like one of Lucas' "poetry" ramblings about rhyming.

Essentially when Lucas made the prequels, he was less interested in making films that fit the originals, and more into making the films resemble the Star Wars he really wanted, then altered the originals to follow suit.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

How so?

Cleaned up and "updated" effects, CGI additions here and there which makes the OT and PT resemble each other more aesthetically. Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine in Empire, which makes the characters' appearances across the saga more consistent. Temuera Morrison voicing Boba Fett. We're reminded that Coruscant and Naboo exist at the end of Jedi. Hayden Christensen as Anakin's force ghost (though this one I do feel works in both versions because he's obviously not a representation of the physical state of Anakin at the time of his death either way). And so on.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

(though this one I do feel works in both versions because he's obviously not a representation of the physical state of Anakin at the time of his death either way).

^ This.

[steel_breeze]

A thought just occurred to me… with the creation of this new trilogy, the "theatrical release order" will be the equivalent of the "machete order".

IV V VI

I II III (flashbacks; include Episode I or not, per your preference)

VII VIII IX (moving forward…)

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Cleaned up and "updated" effects, CGI additions here and there which makes the OT and PT resemble each other more aesthetically. Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine in Empire, which makes the characters' appearances across the saga more consistent. Temuera Morrison voicing Boba Fett. We're reminded that Coruscant and Naboo exist at the end of Jedi. Hayden Christensen as Anakin's force ghost (though this one I do feel works in both versions because he's obviously not a representation of the physical state of Anakin at the time of his death either way). And so on.

Yeah I almost forgot the Palpatine change-- in the UOT the fact that it's not Ian McDiarmid was fairly minor, since you only see him in that brief scene and that his character fully shows up in Return of the Jedi. But in the context all of 6 movies where McDiarmid is a central character in 5 out of 6 of them, it really stands out like a sore-thumb.

As for the Anakin ghost, you can argue that both make sense from a story perspective-- but it definitely does alter the story. In the UOT, Anakin's ghost is supposed to resemble the fatherly figure, a healed and complete version of the man you see when Luke takes the mask off.

In the "Complete Saga" version, it's meant to take you "back" to the time before Anakin turned to the dark side. As in, the story comes full-circle with Anakin's story in the prequels. This only works if you watch the prequels first, however, as if it was concluding a story which began with the "first" movies of Episodes I-III.

[Geoff D]

Yup, and using the machete order of 4,5,2,3,6 (as steely said, include Ep I or not ) means that you're seeing the HaydenGhost right after Ep III so it's a much fresher link that way instead of shoehorning him back into the saga right at the very end.

[Muyfa666]

http://www.ginza.se/Archive/Images/i...rge/337045.jpg

Got it new for 39$. :-)

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by D2Girls

My theory is that this Disney is going to do a 4K remaster of all the movies at once after Fox's distribution rights expire in 2020. Most likely they will include an unaltered release and the special editions. This could happen a bit later, perhaps after the release of episode IX, in 2022 or whenever it comes out.

One small problem with that scenario: Fox owns Ep IV permanently (even after 2020), and it's the one with the worst "special edition" changes. Lucasfilm may be able to force Fox to release the unaltered Ep IV when it's ready (much like the digital version), but Darth Iger may prefer handing Darth Murdoch (or his sons) a boatload of money so he can box Ep IV into whatever sets he wants.

[steel_breeze]

I absolutely love and respect the logic behind "flashback" viewing orders: either IV, V, I, II, III, VI or IV, V, II, III, VI. Totally get it, and it's very smart: perfectly preserves the "I am your father" reveal among other things. It really is an ingenious order -- in theory. But in practice, I have a huge problem whenever I've tried those "flashback" orders…

DISCLAIMER: the following will contain MY OPINION of which Star Wars movies are good or bad. It is not meant to belittle anyone else's OPINIONS, nor is it designed to convince anyone of anything. I'm merely sharing my own experience.

Okay, so… when watching the saga in flashback order, you start out with the absolute best the series has to offer: IV and V (personally, IV will always be my favorite… although I know everyone else likes V better). Any way you slice it, it's all downhill from there. Juxtaposed with IV and V, all of the prequels become almost unwatchable (IMHO, please see DISCLAIMER above). Suddenly you learn that Darth Vader built C-3PO and the Force is caused by symbiotic organisms. WTF?? And of course, VI is the weakest of the OT, so that's not much to look forward to. (My opinions here, remember?)

However, when watching in Episode Order, something miraculous happens. If I'm truly able to get into the mood and watch Episode I as if it's the first in a series, then suddenly when I'm introduced to this young wiz kid (Yippee!), I don't mind that he happens to have built a protocol droid, 'cuz nothing else is known yet about that particular protocol droid… and also, my initial exposure to the Force contains those f'ing midichlorians, so I can accept them better. All these things become more palatable (to me). And then something even more miraculous happens: in the Episode Order, the series gets better and better as it progresses! You can feel the momentum building toward something amazing. After surviving the prequels, I'm genuinely giddy with anticipation to see my beloved IV and V -- 'cuz I know they're the best of the best, and we've been building toward them. And then VI, as weak as it is, still packs momentum as the finale.

All of this was put to the test recently when I tried to watch machete order again for the first time in years. I watched IV and V… then just couldn't bring myself to delve into the cartoony mess of the prequels -- even though I've been genuinely enjoying those very same prequels recently, when watched in Episode Order! For me, it's gotta be I-VI (all the 2011 "final" Lucas editions) or it's IV-VI (unaltered original trilogy, Despecialized editions)… but I just can't do the flashbacks anymore. None of those prequels can follow STAR WARS and EMPIRE.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

One small problem with that scenario: Fox owns Ep IV permanently (even after 2020), and it's the one with the worst "special edition" changes.

Fox don't own shit. All they have is distribution rights to five episodes(theatrical and home video, Lucasfilm have non-theatrical rights) until 2020 and distributions rights (theatrical, non theatrical and home video) to A New Hope until the cows come home. Lucasfilm can do what they like, when they like. Fox have no say.

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by chip75

Fox don't own shit. All they have is distribution rights to five episodes(theatrical and home video, Lucasfilm have non-theatrical rights) until 2020 and distributions rights (theatrical, non theatrical and home video) to A New Hope until the cows come home. Lucasfilm can do what they like, when they like. Fox have no say.

Call it "distribution rights" or whatever. I call it "owning" them, if only in the sense of distribution rights.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

One small problem with that scenario: Fox owns Ep IV permanently (even after 2020), and it's the one with the worst "special edition" changes. Lucasfilm may be able to force Fox to release the unaltered Ep IV when it's ready (much like the digital version), but Darth Iger may prefer handing Darth Murdoch (or his sons) a boatload of money so he can box Ep IV into whatever sets he wants.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

and the Force is caused by symbiotic organisms.

[steel_breeze]

Dude, chill… wake up and smell the midichlorians. :-)

Hey, I don't like it either… I'm just sayin' it's easier to accept in Episode Order than in one of the Flashback Orders.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

Okay, so… when watching the saga in flashback order, you start out with the absolute best the series has to offer: IV and V (personally, IV will always be my favorite… although I know everyone else likes V better). Any way you slice it, it's all downhill from there. Juxtaposed with IV and V, all of the prequels become almost unwatchable (IMHO, please see DISCLAIMER above). Suddenly you learn that Darth Vader built C-3PO and the Force is caused by symbiotic organisms. WTF?? And of course, VI is the weakest of the OT, so that's not much to look forward to. (My opinions here, remember?)

However, when watching in Episode Order, something miraculous happens. If I'm truly able to get into the mood and watch Episode I as if it's the first in a series, then suddenly when I'm introduced to this young wiz kid (Yippee!), I don't mind that he happens to have built a protocol droid, 'cuz nothing else is known yet about that particular protocol droid… and also, my initial exposure to the Force contains those f'ing midichlorians, so I can accept them better. All these things become more palatable (to me). And then something even more miraculous happens: in the Episode Order, the series gets better and better as it progresses! You can feel the momentum building toward something amazing. After surviving the prequels, I'm genuinely giddy with anticipation to see my beloved IV and V -- 'cuz I know they're the best of the best, and we've been building toward them. And then VI, as weak as it is, still packs momentum as the finale.

Interesting, and that's definitely an argument for just watching chronologically. I'd say you should just watch in Episode order IF you're including Episode I in that scenario. IMO, Machete order doesn't quite work right if you're trying to throw that one into the mix. I noticed a lot of your problems seem to stem from things that come out of that specific movie.

Machete order specifically axes Phantom Menace because it throws off the "pacing" and makes the story lose focus. Phantom really doesn't add almost anything to the plot as should be treated like the future "Anthology" episodes as it's own kind of standalone kids movie or something. Just my opinion, of course.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Interesting, and that's definitely an argument for just watching chronologically. I'd say you should just watch in Episode order IF you're including Episode I in that scenario. IMO, Machete order doesn't quite work right if you're trying to throw that one into the mix. I noticed a lot of your problems seem to stem from things that come out of that specific movie.

Machete order specifically axes Phantom Menace because it throws off the "pacing" and makes the story lose focus. Phantom really doesn't add almost anything to the plot as should be treated like the future "Anthology" episodes as it's own kind of standalone kids movie or something. Just my opinion, of course.

Despite my examples, I actually have the biggest problem with SITH. Hate it. Worst of the six, IMHO (please see the DISCLAIMER about opinions in my earlier post, LOL). I actually think the last thirty minutes of MENACE is the best thirty minutes of the prequels, so I can't do without it. My biggest problem is that I think IV and V are "10's", and it's tough to follow those strong entries with the prequels, which are all "3's and 4's" -- in my opinion. But the prequels ARE guilty pleasures for me, and I genuinely find a way to enjoy them IF I watch Episode Order, where the whole series keeps getting better and better.

[Geoff D]

So the relative 'Meh'-ness of the prequels makes you appreciate the originals even more, steel? That's one way of doing it, I guess. Gonna hafta give 4,5,2,3,6 a go at some point though, as you say Jedi ain't exactly amazing in the cold light of day so perhaps it's a good thing it gets viewed after the prequels, so we're given time to acclimatise to the feature-length toy advert that Jedi is. Also puts some more distance between Jedi's revisiting of Tatooine and the replay of the Death Star assault that way.

Another thing about that order is that it really plays up the parallels between Empire & Clones and Sith & Jedi by screening them back to back like that.

[happydood]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

There is no "wallowing," my friend. I'm despecialized. I couldn't care LESS about the versions he's released. I have never and WILL never watch them again.

I'm despecialized, too and I'm glad you have a version you can enjoy. But forgive me if I point out that a lot of what you say doesn't really support that you couldn't care less.

[disneywildcat]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

Call it "distribution rights" or whatever. I call it "owning" them, if only in the sense of distribution rights.

Well, distribution rights means you only collect whatever the distribution fees are for distributing the film. The lion's share of the profits would go to the actual owner of the film (Lucasfilm). Also, it appears that Lucasfilm still has control over when and how the film is released.