Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Agree with you there - it's such a huge thing, and so critical to "the force" in the OT, yet for the most part glazed over in the PT, save for that line by Yoda to Obi-Wan in ROTS, and Yoda hearing Qui-Gonn's yelling "Anakin, Anakin, Nooooooooo!" while meditating in AOTC (when Anakin kills the sandpeople).

See my last post... IT IS NOT RANDOM. The only ones who disappeared upon death were the ones who learned imortality from Qui-Gon... Obi-Wan & Yoda. Qui-Gon obviously learned it after his own death. That's why his body remained when Maul cut him down. It is also why Vader couldn't have learned it while alive. One, he knew nothing of it & two, if he had, he would have disappeared at the end of Jedi, instead of Luke having to burn the body.

[bboisvert]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

If this was something Vader had learned while alive, he should have disappeared, like Obi-Wan & Yoda did.

Erm... Qui-Gon didn't disappear. And he apparently discovered this secret. So, you can "learn the path to immortality" without disappearing. Or something.

EDIT: Our posts crossed. Waitaminute. Qui-Gon learned it AFTER death? How the hell can you learn something after death? That's quite a leap.

(And, let's say he did. Why not Vader too?)

[Beast]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Care to explain?

Ahem, as I said before....

Anakin appearing in that form never made any sense. The altered version works much better.

It fits the mythology of the films better. And as Yoda said, "Luminous Beings are we, not this crude matter".

Anakin doesn't appear bald, scarred, and missing limbs. Obi-Wan isn't cut in half. So why would Anakin choose to appear as a man he doesn't recognize. Plus it fits Obi-Wan's "point of view" that Anakin did die when he became Darth Vader. He was nothing more than a walking corpse kept alive by machines. Hence why when freed of the shell he was trapped in, he manifested in the force as the man he once was. Makes perfect sense. If the force ghost isn't restricted by what the shape the body was in life, why would Anakin be constrained by the crude matter of his corpse.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by bboisvert

Erm... Qui-Gon didn't disappear. And he apparently discovered this secret. So, you can "learn the path to immortality" without disappearing. Or something.

EDIT: Our posts crossed. Waitaminute. Qui-Gon learned it AFTER death? How the hell can you learn something after death? That's quite a leap.

(And, let's say he did. Why not Vader too?)

I added to my above post, but here goes again...

Qui-Gon didn't disappear because he hadn't learned the path to imortality yet. That happened after his death.

There is obviously a spirit realm, as Obi-Wan, Yoda & Anakin's spirits testify to. Since there is a spirit realm, Qui-Gon could have learned this "path" there.

My thought (only a thought) is that not enough time should have passed for Anakin to appear, since he hadn't learned this "path" yet. Yoda did tell Ben that it required training while on Tatooine.

[Beast]

Also....

In Revenge of the Sith it is revealed that the ability to return as a Force Spirit is a recently discovered and complex discipline unknown to most Jedi. Yoda informs Obi-Wan that the late Qui-Gon Jinn discovered "..the path to immortality", the secret of how to retain his identity after death and absorption into the Force, and that his spirit would instruct Obi-Wan in this discipline during his exile on Tatooine.

George Lucas has since indicated (on the Revenge of the Sith DVD commentary) that the appearance of Vader's former self, Anakin Skywalker, as a Force Spirit at the end of Episode VI is due to a combination of Anakin's own latent Force ability, his achievement of a moment of unconditional compassion at his death and redemption, and Yoda and Obi-Wan's spirits helping him extend his identity out of The Force.

That's why Obi-Wan and Yoda fade in easily. And Anakin's appearing as a force ghost appears to be difficult when he first fades in.

[bboisvert]

Originally Posted by Beast

Ahem, as I said before....

Anakin appearing in that form never made any sense. The altered version works much better.

It fits the mythology of the films better. And as Yoda said, "Luminous Beings are we, not this crude matter".

Anakin doesn't appear bald, scarred, and missing limbs. Obi-Wan isn't cut in half. So why would Anakin choose to appear as a man he doesn't recognize. Plus it fits Obi-Wan's "point of view" that Anakin did die when he became Darth Vader. He was nothing more than a walking corpse kept alive by machines. Hence why when freed of the shell he was trapped in, he manifested in the force as the man he once was. Makes perfect sense. If the force ghost isn't restricted by what the shape the body was in life, why would Anakin be constrained by the crude matter of his corpse.

I like this idea. When I come back as my force ghost, I'm going to look like Gisele Bündchen.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by bboisvert

I like this idea. When I come back as my force ghost, I'm going to look like Gisele Bündchen.

It's no different than ghosts in horror movies appearing in different forms than they had in life.

[bboisvert]

Originally Posted by Beast

It's no different than ghosts in horror movies appearing in different forms than they had in life.

I was making a joke, but I actually *do* like your idea. That's the first rational explaination of Hayden at the end of that movie that I've ever heard.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by Beast

Ahem, as I said before....

Anakin appearing in that form never made any sense. The altered version works much better.

It fits the mythology of the films better. And as Yoda said, "Luminous Beings are we, not this crude matter".

Anakin doesn't appear bald, scarred, and missing limbs. Obi-Wan isn't cut in half. So why would Anakin choose to appear as a man he doesn't recognize. Plus it fits Obi-Wan's "point of view" that Anakin did die when he became Darth Vader. He was nothing more than a walking corpse kept alive by machines. Hence why when freed of the shell he was trapped in, he manifested in the force as the man he once was. Makes perfect sense. If the force ghost isn't restricted by what the shape the body was in life, why would Anakin be constrained by the crude matter of his corpse.

Anakin never appeared as bald, scarred or missing limbs when Sebastian Shaw portrayed the spirit. Luke wouldn't have recognized ANY Anakin. The only time he ever laid eyes on Anakin was when he pulled the mask off on the Death Star (who he saw was Sebastian Shaw). Why didn't Ben or Yoda appear as their younger selves? They appeared as they were when they died. If Anakin really died when he turned to the dark side... He couldn't have returned to the light at the end of Jedi because he was alrerady dead. As Luke said, there was still good in him. Remember, the title Return of the Jedi does not refer to Luke becoming a Jedi... This entire saga is the story of Anakin Skywalker. Return of the Jedi refers to Anakin's return to the light. This happened when he was older. His ghost should have been that of his older self.

As for any reasoning that GL gives... He rationalizes things on the spur of the moment & changes elements at the drop of a dime. He's left so many plot holes that he only digs himself deeper with each he tries to explain.

[Deadset]

I admit, the explanation is good....I'm not sure if I buy his reasoning. Not that I have to.

Maybe Obiwan will come back as his youthful version in the form of Ewan McGregor with this new bluray release.

[Beast]

Obi-Wan and Yoda never turned to the Dark Side in their youth. So why would they manifest as their younger selves?

Anakin appearing as the man he once makes perfect sense given Obi-Wan and Yoda's dialogue in the films.

[bboisvert]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

As for any reasoning that GL gives... He rationalizes things on the spur of the moment & changes elements at the drop of a dime. He's left so many plot holes that he only digs himself deeper with each he tries to explain.

Well, this is also very true. Anyone who doubts this needs to read this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-History.../dp/0978465237
which meticulously traces the various iterations of the story as it developed. You see pretty quickly that Lucas exhausted most of his ideas by the time the first movie was done and the rest was decided very much spur-of-the-moment. There was never any "grand plan" here.

[B.Hulk]

Originally Posted by Jay444

I preordered the minute it was available to do so! I don't care about the whole 'which trilogy is better, blah blah blah..." I just want HD Star Wars on my HD tv (I appreciate the efforts by Spike and HBO, but nothing beats a disc imo). Cannot wait until Sept! Might very well be the only blu rays I buy this year...lol

I feel the same way, "just give me by SW saga on blu already" I still have to get the Alien set and whenever they release it "Jurassic Park" on Blu-ray

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Beast

Anakin appearing as the man he once makes perfect sense given Obi-Wan and Yoda's dialogue in the films.

Didn't the man he once was massacre sand people and lop off Dooku's head? You have to go pretty far back with that guy before you find gumdrops and rainbows, no?

(I'm not taking a position on the changed scene primarily because I don't know that I've ever seen it - I saw RotJ when it came out and have never felt the need to revisit it - I've seen fairly large bits of it on cable over the years but I've never seen any of the RotJ SEs in their entirety)

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Cookson

For anyone wanting to know, the THRAWN TRILOGY is the absolute best episode 7-9 out there.

It's basically the aftermath, and the remaining emperial forces... including the the Empires BEST Admiral!

I would love to see Lucasarts make an animated series, like the Clone Wars, based on this trilogy!

I agree except I want live action, not animated stuff. Cant get into animation, especialy when the rest of the films are live action. The other problem of course is who can play what characters? Hamil, Fisher, Ford, etc, etc are simply too old. Its a deal killer. George would have had to make EPs 7-9 almost immediately right after the original trilogy for it to work.

If we see any more SW films they will have to take place well before the prequels then you can get current people to play the various parts.

[tvine2000]

Originally Posted by Guitar Joe

I think they all suck. I want the unaltered original trilogy for purely nostalgic reasons.

Right , i hear you but tell Lucas that. I also think [no proof] Lucas updated the originals because, he wanted them to look closer to ep 1,2 and 3. But what he said was he wanted to redo the originals like he wanted in the first place.

[aiman04]

Haha! Every thread that has Star Wars on it's title gets everyone to argue the same thing over and over again. Wonderful!

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Remember, the title Return of the Jedi does not refer to Luke becoming a Jedi... This entire saga is the story of Anakin Skywalker. Return of the Jedi refers to Anakin's return to the light. This happened when he was older. His ghost should have been that of his older self.

Can't buy that because the film was originally called "Revenge of the Jedi" but people pointed out to Lucas that the Jedi wouldn't take revenge, so he changed it. So I think it does refer to Luke and not to Anakin. Nice try though...I wish your interpretation was correct.

[bboisvert]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Remember, the title Return of the Jedi does not refer to Luke becoming a Jedi... This entire saga is the story of Anakin Skywalker.

Be careful about buying into Lucas's revisionist thinking. The concept that the whole saga is Anakin's story didn't come about until well after the original trilogy came out. As of the first draft of ESB, Anakin and Vader were still two separate characters.


Also, as mentioned, the title was "Revenge..." until right before release. That being said, what I love about the title "Return of the Jedi" is that it works on multiple levels:

1. Literal: Luke's back!
2. Thematic: Anakin returns to the light side.
3. Speculative: With the Empire gone, Luke can now reestablish the Jedi Order.

[brandonsmith]

Is there any news of individual releases of the films, or will the box set have them like The Bourne Trilogy?