Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Chordata

Elected?

It happens all the time. JFK was actually 15 when he was first elected president.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by Beast

She was raised from birth and specifically educated with the possibility she'd be chosen to serve.

And it's not like they elect them with "UNLIMITED POWER", they're advised by a council and Governor.

True.

Speaking of which, though, I was noticing in TPM and AOTC how wrong Padme was about just about all the big decisions facing her. She says she won't condone a course of action that will lead to war. The war comes anyway and her people are completely unprepared for it. Fail.

Then in AOTC she's leading against the Military Creation Act (which is before anyone in the Senate or Jedi knows about the clones so must be regular enlisted/commissioned beings). Thus when the Clones are found and the Separatist threat revealed, the Republic absolutely needs a military. Fail. The clones, of course, turn out to the ultimate checkmate for the Sith against the Jedi (and the Republic. Fail x2. Then she turns it over to Jar Jar, who tips the balance to giving Palpatine Emergency Powers. Mega fail.

The only right thing we see her doing in public office was ROTS fostering the nascent Rebellion, which was deleted from the theatrical cut.

[raygendreau]

Just watched I and II. Jar Jar as jarring as ever. I think its the poor table manners. With a tongue worthy of smoking, slicing and using in deli sandwiches, its no wonder that he went into politics.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Jedi prospects are supposed to be taken from birth so they have no attachment to their families. Anakin was too strongly attached to his Mother, which is why he was considered too old in TPM. Luke's situation was quite different because even though he was 19 or 20, he had no attachments. He never knew his parents and his legal guardians were murdered. Plus given the situation, Luke was the last hope to defeat Vader and the Emperor. What other choice did Yoda have?

Yeah, I agree with this. While there are many questionable aspects of continuity that I take issue with, this really isn't one of them.

It's not exactly like there was a plethora of other Jedi or potential Jedi to choose from. Back in Anakin's time, the Jedi were plentiful. There wasn't any kind of emergency need to train someone to be a Jedi who didn't enter into it under the ideal circumstances.


That being said, one issue that I do have (having recently rewatched the PT) is in Episode 1, before the council even meets Anakin, and Qui Gon is just telling them about him (explaining that he has the highest midichlorian count that he's ever seen), the council seems almost annoyed and put off by this. The looks that Yoda and Mace exchange almost look as if they are bored, disinterested, and otherwise annoyed by this information. I can understand being skeptical and cautious, but you would think, even if they had doubts about the kid before even meeting him, that they would have at least shown a bit more interest in meeting someone with such a midichlorian count and would have been curious about how that would be possible, etc.

[Batman1980]

Oh my goodness, the blinking Teddy Ruxpin is a bit creepy. I still wonder how those tiny little furballs tied a wookie onto a pole like that.

[Adam_ME]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

Uh, yes. It makes sense. You're asking how does she "remember" her mother after I just said it's possible that Leia is misinterpreting her images as memories. Hence, they aren't actual memories but images she has seen through the Force. Who said one has to be "so powerful" to see images through the Force? And who said all those with the ability to use the Force are equal in their abilities? And who said Leia isn't more powerful than Luke with the Force? She just hasn't had any training to hone her skill the way Luke has.

And since when is the novelization canon?

Those are an awful lot of hoops you're jumping through to explain away a continuity error. I think "a wizard did it" would've made more sense. I'm also waiting for Lucas or anyone else to explain why if Obi-Wan was so desperate to hide Luke for his own safety, he'd leave him with his step-uncle and aunt on Anakin's homeworld, not change his last name from Skywalker, and keep his own last name Kenobi while staying only a few miles away and watching over him? Or how Palpatine's force lightning deflected off of Mace's lightsaber scars his face while a direct blast at Luke's face didn't even cause a scratch? Or why the first Death Star took 2 decades to complete while the second one was almost finished(and at the very least operational) within a mere 3 years? Or how Anakin learned the Force ghost ability in about 5 minutes despite having turned to the Dark Side and never receiving the training Yoda gave Obi-Wan courtesy of Qui-Gon?

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

That being said, one issue that I do have (having recently rewatched the PT) is in Episode 1, before the council even meets Anakin, and Qui Gon is just telling them about him (explaining that he has the highest midichlorian count that he's ever seen), the council seems almost annoyed and put off by this. The looks that Yoda and Mace exchange almost look as if they are bored, disinterested, and otherwise annoyed by this information.

Remember in the context though. Obi-wan doesn't know what it means and openly asks and Qui-gon admits he doesn't know. Only later on did Qui-Gon conjecture that it meant that Anakin was the chosen one from prophecy.

I can understand being skeptical and cautious, but you would think, even if they had doubts about the kid before even meeting him, that they would have at least shown a bit more interest in meeting someone with such a midichlorian count and would have been curious about how that would be possible, etc.

Yoda clearly doesn't agree with Qui-gon's interpretation of the prophecy. At least a majority of the Council is with him at least until the end of the battle when Anakin 'accidentally' destroys the Trade Federation ship. Remember, in Obi-wan's experience "there is no such thing as luck." They're all about destiny and that caused at least a majority of the Council to change their minds, though apparently Yoda didn't ("agree with your taking this boy as your Padawan Learner… I do not.").

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

one issue that I do have (having recently rewatched the PT) is in Episode 1, before the council even meets Anakin, and Qui Gon is just telling them about him (explaining that he has the highest midichlorian count that he's ever seen), the council seems almost annoyed and put off by this. The looks that Yoda and Mace exchange almost look as if they are bored, disinterested, and otherwise annoyed by this information. I can understand being skeptical and cautious, but you would think, even if they had doubts about the kid before even meeting him, that they would have at least sho wn a bit more interest in meeting someone with such a midichlorian count and would have been curious about how that would be possible, etc.

What always puzzled me about that whole situation was after Anakin is tested, Qui Gon asks the council if Anakin is to be trained and Mace bluntly says "No, he will not be trained. He is too old." Then not 10 seconds later they say "Anakins fate will be decided later." Um, did I miss something? How is it the council went from definitively saying no, to suddenly saying well, we're not sure yet. The way that whole scene plays out just makes no sense.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Uxi

Remember in the context though. Obi-wan doesn't know what it means and openly asks and Qui-gon admits he doesn't know. Only later on did Qui-Gon conjecture that it meant that Anakin was the chosen one from prophecy.



Yoda clearly doesn't agree with Qui-gon's interpretation of the prophecy. At least a majority of the Council is with him at least until the end of the battle when Anakin 'accidentally' destroys the Trade Federation ship. Remember, in Obi-wan's experience "there is no such thing as luck." They're all about destiny and that caused at least a majority of the Council to change their minds, though apparently Yoda didn't ("agree with your taking this boy as your Padawan Learner… I do not.").

Well Yoda was right, Anakin was a fatally flawed Dark Jedi and it led to the near extinction of their order but it also finally led to the downfall of the Empire.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

It's obviously assumed that we already know the basics of who the Jedi are and how the force works based on the info that we got from the OT, since Episode 1 basically "hits the ground running" with the Jedi in action, not giving us any kind of build up or explanation about them or their abilities (despite some other extraordinarily stupid theories that other people have come up with, such as it not being explained as to allow it to be "built up" over the course of the 3 PT movies).

I could go on with further examples, but the point remains the same. The PT, despite being the beginning of the overall story, was still written and made in a manner that assumes that the audience is already familiar with and has knowledge from the OT. There are still advantages to watching the movies 1-6, but not on teh first viewing.

That's just not true! With Episode One you get the best introduction into how the republic works (you get to see the capital, the senate and how the jedi pecking order) and you get presented with the origin of the conflict that unfolds over the course of the six movies (There is a prophecy of a chosen one to bring balance to the force and the Sith are plotting to take revenge on the Jedi). You actually see what the force can do through the actions of the jedi and you get the scientific groundrules how humans are able to even use the force in the first place...

Watch these movies in the chronological order: Episodes I-VI, folks. In that order they simply radiate the most power and have the biggest impact. Don't be fooled by arguments that stem only from a refuge of nostalgia!

[Batman1980]

Yes, it's you Leia.
Somehow I always knew

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Uxi

Uh, that wasn't Vader's ship and besides Luke wasn't on it then anyway. Vader chokes out the guy who's ship the Falcon landed on, who goes to Vader's ship on a shuttle. "Apology accepted, Captain Needa"

Who gives a crap whose ship it was? Does that have any bearing on what I said?

Luke being on it or not shouldn't matter, the Force connects you to all living things, not just other Force-enabled individuals.

It just doesn't add up. I'm saying I go with it anyway because it moves the narrative along, but man this constant justification and retcon for absolutely everything is getting ooooooold. To me it's enough to say "Eh whatever, don't think too hard about it". Apparently for other people they need to justify it, at least in their own minds, or they just can't enjoy it, hence the endless excuses and justifications.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Watch these movies in the chronological order: Episodes I-VI, folks. In that order they simply radiate the most power and have the biggest impact. Don't be fooled by arguments that stem only from a refuge of nostalgia!

Except that you spoil the ending of V, and spend a lot of minutes in IV explaining the Force, stuff that should come first.

It also de-mystifies Vader's character... no longer is he a menacing mystery and ruins one of the greatest villains of all time.

Lucas clearly didn't think out his story well enough... but then again, many times prequels have a hard time keeping consistency.

Watch them in release order IV-V-VI-I-II-II (and just disregard Hayden at the end of ROTJ, since yo have no idea who he is)

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Beast

It's Amazon.Com. Reviews are pointless coming from there. Since there's no standards or requirements.

It's especially telling that the reviews for the individual OT and PT sets show very different results.

I'm not debating their merit. I'm asking if only the 1 star ratings are from "stupid fanboy whinging idiots" or whatever, or do we call the 5 star reviewers names as well?

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

That's just not true!

Yes it is. You are just so overly caught up with symbolism and phylosphy that you have become unable to see basic plain simple logic.

Watch these movies in the chronological order: Episodes I-VI, folks. In that order they simply radiate the most power and have the biggest impact. Don't be fooled by arguments that stem only from a refuge of nostalgia!

Watching them in order of 1-VI is just fine for anyone already familiar with the movies. I'm in the process of watching them that way now (I've gotten through I-III, hoping to watch IV-VI this weekend if all pans out). But as an introduction to the saga and the overall mythology for the first time? Nope, this order doesn't work so well.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Who gives a crap whose ship it was? Does that have any bearing on what I said?

Because Vader wasn't on that ship the Falcon landed on? Is Vader supposed to detect Luke landing on ANY imperial ship?

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

Well Yoda was right, Anakin was a fatally flawed Dark Jedi and it led to the near extinction of their order but it also finally led to the downfall of the Empire.

It appeared he was right at first. ultimately, he was wrong, though. Anakin did bring balance to the Force and destroy the Sith. Just not in the way anyone thought he would.

Yoda (and Obi-wan) were also both wrong about Vader and whether there was still good in him. They both wanted Luke to kill Vader, not redeem him.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Uxi

It appeared he was right at first. ultimately, he was wrong, though. Anakin did bring balance to the Force and destroy the Sith. Just not in the way anyone thought he would.

Yoda (and Obi-wan) were also both wrong about Vader and whether there was still good in him. They both wanted Luke to kill Vader, not redeem him.

Well honestly they should've convinced Luke to do what he did and turn Anakin back, it's not like Luke alone could succeed where Yoda and Mace both failed.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Uxi

Remember in the context though. Obi-wan doesn't know what it means and openly asks and Qui-gon admits he doesn't know. Only later on did Qui-Gon conjecture that it meant that Anakin was the chosen one from prophecy.



Yoda clearly doesn't agree with Qui-gon's interpretation of the prophecy. At least a majority of the Council is with him at least until the end of the battle when Anakin 'accidentally' destroys the Trade Federation ship. Remember, in Obi-wan's experience "there is no such thing as luck." They're all about destiny and that caused at least a majority of the Council to change their minds, though apparently Yoda didn't ("agree with your taking this boy as your Padawan Learner… I do not.").

But before the prophecy is even brought up and Qui Gon is merely explaining that kid's midichlorian count, they are already having this reaction.

And even once the prophecy is brought up, even if they are still skeptical regarding the boy being the one from the prophecy, I would still think they would still show more interest in meeting someone with such a high midichlorian count. That alone should be a significant discovery, regardless of any prophecy.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Uxi

Because Vader wasn't on that ship the Falcon landed on? Is Vader supposed to detect Luke landing on ANY imperial ship?

Why would the ship matter? Seriously. Why.

Does Vader have some kind of sentient powers connecting him to his ship? Sometimes Vader can feel people from planets away. Kenobi felt a disturbance in The Force when Alderaan was destroyed, PLANETS AWAY. Vader can't detect his own daughter in the span of a square-mile?

It just doesn't add up, and my point is that it doesn't have to. Make the Force kinda murky and inexplicable and it gives you a lot of wiggle room. All the retcon justifications for everything are hilaaaarious. Just go with it.

"The Tattooine sun made Ben age faster!"

Creative writing is fun and it's a pursuit I definitely support, though, so have at 'er.