Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[nmycon]

Originally Posted by Beast

Who says I'm not respecting their opinion. I'm pointing out the logic fault of saying it somehow PROVES a fact.

It doesn't prove a fact. It just compiles a bunch of opinions into one. It's not scientific by any means.

I'm not saying it's flawed because I disagree with it. You might want to re-read what I actually said about it.

To be fair, IMDB's top 250 movies list is compiled from votes by IMDB.com members.

It is the opinion of 491 063 people that The Godfather should be on that list...

[svenge]

Originally Posted by nmycon

To be fair, IMDB's top 250 movies list is compiled from votes by IMDB.com members.

It is the opinion of 491 063 people that The Godfather should be on that list...

That's only 491 times as many people are asked a question in the typical national opinion poll; that can't accurately indicate anything, right?

[Beast]

Originally Posted by svenge

It was Qui-Gon who instantly (and quite correctly) sized up Jar-Jar with this quote:

You're twisting that scene. Since Qui-Gon was the one who believed in Symbiotic Relationships.

That all lifeforms, no matter how strange and different are important. Watch the movie again, and pay attention to the dialogue.

It's there in his talks to both Anakin and Obi-Wan during the film. It was Obi-Wan who didn't understand that lesson until later.

[Post Prod]

Originally Posted by Beast

You might want to actually pay attention to the movie next time. It's Obi-Wan who's annoyed by Jar Jar.

I JUST watched it I tihnk you need to pay attention.

Qui Jon wants to him to beat it, more or less calls him stupid, Jar Jar says he can speak, Qui Jon reminds him that doesnt mean he's not stupid - and only lets him stick around because he might be a decent guide.

Both Jedis are clearly annoyed by him.

I guess I shouldnt be shocked you are debating even that.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

News Flash: There is nothing wrong with the prequel trilogy. Lucas is more happy about how they turned out than he was with the OT and millions of fans love these movies.

How do we know this for sure? Are you able to actually get inside of Lucas's head to know what exactly he is thinking?

For the better part of 20 years, he didn't really make it a point to publicly state his disappointment with how the OT turned out. Any occasions of that were few and far between.

It was in the mid to late 90s when talk of a "special edition" started up, the original versions were released "one last time" on VHS and Laserdisc (at which time it was actually only the original Star Wars that was intended to be updated, not the entire OT. The message from Lucas on that release stated that it would be the last chance to own the original version of Star Wars (meaning ANH). It was later that he decided to update the entire OT. This was the time frame during which his displeasure with certain aspects of the OT really came out. And then we got the 1997 Special Edition release. And during this time he would state why he was doing this in interviews, referencing his disappointment with what he couldn't do at the time of the original productions.

The point is that he never really said much about it publicly until he was in a position to do something about it.

And since then, he's more or less been silent on the newer changes that have occurred on the DVD release and now the BD release (at least in terms of speaking of those changes specifically... any discussion of changing the films tends to be in general terms). It's not like they were called the "extra special editions" or anything. He didn't really give specific thoughts in interviews as far as I know about these changes. And for that matter, the fact that these changes were happening was kept pretty quiet for the most part. Unlike the 1997 Special Edition release, in which the fact that the movies were updated was a huge part of the advertising campaign, the changes that have happened since have been largely kept quiet, to be discovered upon the DVDs (or in the case of the BDs, the leaked rips) got into someone's hands to verify them. Sure, Lucasfilm came out with a press release to confirm the BD changes, but only after they had been discovered.


The point is simply this. We don't know for a fact that he is completely happy with the PT. That's just something that the Lucas-worshipers like to assume, often making statements like, "Lucas finally got to make exactly the movies that he wanted!!!!!!!!" followed by 5 to 10 of the annoying head-banging smiley.

But we don't know that for sure. There may be aspects that he isn't happy about and can't really do much to change by way of digital editing/meddling (at least not cost effectively) that he looks back upon as not being great. But he's not going to just come out and tell us that.

Granted, from a visual effects standpoint, he certainly came a lot closer to doing what he wanted to do with the PT than the OT. But given what a grand undertaking the PT was by comparison, given the grand scope, he may have been overwhelmed to an extent.

While he doesn't always give in to fan criticism (i.e. not having released hi-quality versions of the UOT on DVD or Blu-Ray), it doesn't mean that he doesn't agree with any of the criticisms.

Perhaps in hind sight even he may be disapointed by some of the performances in the films as well as how the character development was handled. He seemed to write the PT films one at a time, having some basic idea of where the characters that originated in the OT would end up, but not really planning ahead to develop characters that would be important in the later prequels early on (i.e. Dooku and Grievous).

But he can't go in and change a performance if a preferable alternate take was never filmed.

Also my understanding is that a big part of why he actually directed all of the PT movies was because of the issues that he had with the director and writers guilds, etc, when making the OT. When he didn't have actual opening credits on the films, Kirshner (for example) was fined and Lucas paid the fine for him. He was angry over the crap he was having to deal with in this regard (which I can fully understand why he would feel that way... it's one thing that I can agree with him on), and he probably didn't want to deal with that nonsense with the PT.

So, he directed the PT films himself. It doesn't mean that they didn't suffer as a result. He's even admitted that he's not an "actor's director" on several occasions. There's a reason why he originally decided not to be the director on the latter 2 OT films. But he opted for control over the B.S. semantics that he would have to follow if he had someone else direct the films. And in that respect I don't blame him, but the performances did suffer IMO, and he may well feel the same way. He's not going to come right out and say that, though if that is the case since there's really nothing he can do about it at this point short of remaking the films from scratch.

I admit, this is speculation on my part, and I could be wrong. But it's also speculation to just assume that the PT films are:

"Exactly the films the he wanted to make!!!! "

[crazyBLUE]

Lets keep it on topic guys.

[georgec]

Will SW on blu-ray end up being the bestselling title on the format to date?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by georgec

Will SW on blu-ray end up being the bestselling title on the format to date?

Hard to say. It probably has a pretty good shot with regard to revenue (though that might depend on how the Harry Potter revenue is tallied) but Avatar's unit total (something like six million plus?) is a pretty high bar.

[nathan_393]

Originally Posted by octagon

Hard to say. It probably has a pretty good shot with regard to revenue (though that might depend on how the Harry Potter revenue is tallied) but Avatar's unit total (something like six million plus?) is a pretty high bar.

I can't see any catalogue title, even one like Star Wars, taking down Avatar. Everybody and his mother has a copy of that flick.

[georgec]

Do the counts for Avatar include sales for both versions (extended and theatrical)?

Since SW is multiple titles I wonder if official counts would include each of the three box sets or just apply to the complete saga.

[Weirded Wonder]

Originally Posted by Post Prod

I JUST watched it I tihnk you need to pay attention.

Qui Jon wants to him to beat it, more or less calls him stupid, Jar Jar says he can speak, Qui Jon reminds him that doesnt mean he's not stupid - and only lets him stick around because he might be a decent guide.

Both Jedis are clearly annoyed by him.

I guess I shouldnt be shocked you are debating even that.

You're wasting your time as he obviously has no idea to what he is talking about.

Clearly Qui Qon Jimmy wants nothing to do with Jar Jar and wants him to get out of his sight. It's not until Jar Jar has something to offer the Jedi that Qual Qon Jin has any interest in him and even then he talks down to him.

[TJtheDrummerPro]

I cannot wait to get this! Christmas, come quickly!

[octagon]

Originally Posted by georgec

Do the counts for Avatar include sales for both versions (extended and theatrical)?

Since SW is multiple titles I wonder if official counts would include each of the three box sets or just apply to the complete saga.

I don't think there are any 'official' counts. Home video release info is a lot like box office numbers. Studios will announce revenue numbers and various analysts will use various methods to infer ticket/unit numbers but there's really no One True source or methodology.

We can be confident it sold a lot of units and made an assload of money but beyond that reading too much into sales figures gets tricky.

[bttfiii]

Originally Posted by TJtheDrummerPro

I cannot wait to get this! Christmas, come quickly!

so why don't you just buy it now?

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau

Man, it must have really stung indeed.

So why didn't he enlist help? I remember him hiring and then firing at least one writer on Clones. Why didn't he circle his wagons, pull in all his best filmaking friends, and say to them, "You gotta help me. I f---ed up."

Was it pride? Jealousy of the world he had created? I've heard Orson Scott Card say he considered letting others write about Ender and the universe Ender lives in, but he has since decided not to, admitting that he became jealous of the thought of someone else writing about his character.

And why didn't he take his time making part 2 and 3 then? Or...why even make them at all? Just announce to the world that you decided you only wanted to do the introduction of Anakin as a stand alone film, but let other writers and the imaginations of SW fans have fun filling in the rest. Why go introverted over the whole deal and just push blindly forward?

It sounds like he was just scared. He had spent too many years with people loving him and what he created, and when he bit off more than he could chew he got understandably afraid.

Man, what a sad state of affairs for everyone.
If true, it makes me want to go hug the dude and tell him I'm sorry for all the rotten things I ever said about him.

I'd still hate the prequels though.

Well, as much as I HATE how the PT squandered their potential, I completely understand him wanting to do things himself. He's a lazy writer. A horrible writer when it comes to emotion and dialogue. But I personally would rather write a project of my own that I had come up with, even if I knew someone else could help make it better. And that is totally a pride thing. It just really sucks when your heroes fail.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

News Flash: There is nothing wrong with the prequel trilogy. Lucas is more happy about how they turned out than he was with the OT and millions of fans love these movies. I've even heard of a first-timer (yes, a grown-up) who has recently watched Episode 1 on BluRay as the first Star Wars movie. She really liked it, especially JarJar and Anakin! The hand ful of disappointed "fans" isn't representative at all. The sales-numbers speak for themselves.

We'll see. Remember this statement in 20 years. ANH and Empire will be right up with there with Wizard of Oz, Forbidden Planet and The Ten Commandments. Timeless. The PT will be a footnote in their deluxe packaging.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by happydood

The old trilogy got comparable reviews with the exception of Star Wars. Reviews on aggregators (sp) like Rotten Tomatoes contains many more recent reviews that have the benefit of hindsight and aren't entirely accurate. But I'm not trying to downplay the OT. I love it dearly.

And I'm not someone who explains away the faults of The Prequels. I like them in spite of the faults, and I'm not someone who is uninformed or ignorant of what a good movie is. I'm just a cup-half-full kinda guy.

Look, I was there, man. I was, like, in the 70's man! And I remember the early eighties man! And do you know what they said about me? Did they say I was a, a goooood man? A kiiiiind man? Sorry, a bit of Dennis Hopper there.

But as a kid I scoured the reviews of the time and believe me - these films were well reviewed. Most critics complained a bit about the acting, and some called them glorified comic books - especially with Jedi - but Ebert, Siskel, Shalit - all those dudes genuinely liked and praised them. Pauline Kael was one of the only people who really, outright hated them. There was some eye-rolling from the "serious" adults, but I honestly don't remember people going after them like they did with the PT. Just the opposite.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau

Fett likes the wind in his face and the vacuum in his lungs.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by Beast

The IMDB lists are just a collective opinion. And terrible movies like Godfather are high up on the list. So it doesn't mean much.

Yes, they are just a collective opinion.....of the world.

The BMDB top 10:

TPM
TPM
ROTS
TPM
AOTC
X-mEN Last Stand
ROTJ
Predator (blu-ray version)
TPM

and

TPM

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by Beast

You might want to actually pay attention to the movie next time. It's Obi-Wan who's annoyed by Jar Jar.

Nope! it's Qui-Gon who is annoyed first! You might want to watch the movie again. 'get out of here!" he says. It's not rocket science!

I mean, it really, really, really isn't. Sigh.