Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Jay444

Also, Buster Keaton is a little above 'fart jokes' and 'stepping in crap' visual puns, so if its a homage, it is quite the miss (imo). Also, I do not recall Keaton walking like Mushmouth from Fat Albert either.

I will have to look it up, as I never really watch Fat Albert show

Keaton was dead pan physical comedy and a cinematic genius that invent a lot of the things done in movies audiences take for granted today.

I don't think comparing him to Jar Jar work's well even if I understand what Shaft was trying to do

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Well he may just have wanted them as homage and nothing else. The trouble is that most of todays audiences would not even make the connection and even know who is Buster Keaton anyway.

"Buster who? Oh! That is boring it's so old and the dude is dead"

For me it's not so much how old the source material is as much as the type of source material. I don't really feel that slapstick comedy really belongs in Star Wars. Even if the source Lucas were to base it on was something that I am a huge fan of, it still doesn't mean that it fits in with that universe.

[georgec]

Originally Posted by Valaquen

... .... Did I just see Buster Keaton being compared to Jar Jar?

While Lucas may have tried to emulate Buster Keaton's sweet, innocent style of comedy, it clearly didn't work with Jar Jar.

Yes, Lucas made exactly the movies he wanted to make - that's why you can see he prefers the PT to the OT. The PT is his. Even in the 1988 "From SW to Jedi" documentary you can listen to Lucas talking about wanting to revisit the OT and expand upon certain scenes or technology.

So, how about that blu-ray? Ehh? Ehhhhh?

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Yes you did and welcome to the Star Wars thread

This is actually the truth. I despise Jah Jah and would never support this comparison if it wasn't true.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by The Doof

The other inspiration for Jah Jah. People can deny this all they want, and I'm sure Lucas DID NOT intend it or do it consciously. But it is there.

Excerpt from "Miracle in Harlem" (1948) - YouTube

I think you hold the reason so many people are not too happy with Jar Jar, they feel it's a racial stereotype that was created by Lucas & Best. I never really saw it like that but I can understand how many would think it is.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

For me it's not so much how old the source material is as much as the type of source material. I don't really feel that slapstick comedy really belongs in Star Wars. Even if the source Lucas were to base it on was something that I am a huge fan of, it still doesn't mean that it fits in with that universe.

For me, it was not much of a problem as the original have their sources of silliness and goofyness. Did he go overboard with the prequels? Yes I will grant you that in places he did and could have cut a few things in half...the goofy stuff would still be there but at a closer level then the original. I never really took the original seriously, for me they were fun, cheesie, action pack movies but never saw them as high drama.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by aramis109

You're not looking into the deeper meaning through the eyes of fantasy and myth and laser tag, apparently.

This thread tells me that the internet really knows no bounds.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I will have to look it up, as I never really watch Fat Albert show

Keaton was dead pan physical comedy and a cinematic genius that invent a lot of the things done in movies audiences take for granted today.

I don't think comparing him to Jar Jar work's well even if I understand what Shaft was trying to do

I think he is desperatly trying to make Jar Jar into something the character clearly is not. He was a slapstick character that was designed to entertain children and sell toys. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now, Mushmouth was fn hilarious when I was a kid (I owe Bill Cosby almost as much as Lucas for a fun childhood). A little offensive now, but I think he fits the bill for Jar Jar much more than a comparison to Buster Keaton. Just my opinion.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I think you hold the reason so many people are not too happy with Jar Jar, they feel it's a racial stereotype that was created by Lucas & Best. I never really saw it like that but I can understand how many would think it is.

Agreed. It was funny to see the racial comparisons to the Nemoidians and especially Watto who was accused by several different parties of being representative of another. As is often the case, it reveals as much about the interpreter as the interpretation.

I would have much preferred if the Nemoidians had spoken a dubbed alien language, especially when it's just them and their droids and only speaking their accented Basic when talking with Darth Sidious or the Queen.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I think you hold the reason so many people are not too happy with Jar Jar, they feel it's a racial stereotype that was created by Lucas & Best. I never really saw it like that but I can understand how many would think it is.

I just remember cringing inside when I first saw Jar Jar on the screen. And it wasn't in regard to his child-like antics. Same with the Trade Federation accents. I'm used to them now, but at the time it was absolutely shocking. All innocent in intention, but shocking nontheless.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

For me it's not so much how old the source material is as much as the type of source material. I don't really feel that slapstick comedy really belongs in Star Wars. Even if the source Lucas were to base it on was something that I am a huge fan of, it still doesn't mean that it fits in with that universe.

And you know what fits into someone elses universe? WOW!
You're smarter than anyone else! Or should i say "You think you're so smartie! You think your brain's so big!"

I hate to break it to yo but the influences to Star Wars are f.e. The Wizard Of Oz, Flash Gordon, the jidai-geki of Kurosawa, John Ford films (or didn't you even get the "Searchers" reference!?), David Lean movies, Silent movies, world history and myth, 50s SciFi like "Forbidden Planet", ...

It was never "Starship Troopers", "Platoon" or "Medal Of Honor".

It's as if people are denying that Tarantino draws his stuff from 70s cinema.

[Weirded Wonder]

Originally Posted by Jay444

Also, Buster Keaton is a little above 'fart jokes' and 'stepping in crap' visual puns, so if its a homage, it is quite the miss (imo). Also, I do not recall Keaton walking like Mushmouth from Fat Albert either.

OMG! O-buh K-bee.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by Jay444

I think he is desperatly trying to make Jar Jar into something the character clearly is not. He was a slapstick character that was designed to entertain children and sell toys. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now, Mushmouth was fn hilarious when I was a kid (I owe Bill Cosby almost as much as Lucas for a fun childhood). A little offensive now, but I think he fits the bill for Jar Jar much more than a comparison to Buster Keaton. Just my opinion.

I actually get what Lucas was going for. That you don't have to be a jedi to have an innate attachment to the force. That even blunders can be the universe speaking through you and that no one or nothing should ever be discounted because of this. Could have been an interesting character and theme to explore in a SW trilogy. I get it. I just hate how he executed it - or failed to execute it.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by The Doof

I just remember cringing inside when I first saw Jar Jar on the screen. And it wasn't in regard to his child-like antics. Same with the Trade Federation accents. I'm used to them now, but at the time it was absolutely shocking. All innocent in intention, but shocking nontheless.

God, the Trade Federation accents... I was like "Wtf? Really?" WHY couldn't he have just used subtitles like he did with almost all of the aliens in the OT? I get that he designed TPM to be for kids, but hell man... Reading is fun!

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by Uxi

Agreed. It was funny to see the racial comparisons to the Nemoidians and especially Watto who was accused by several different parties of being representative of another. As is often the case, it reveals as much about the interpreter as the interpretation.

I would have much preferred if the Nemoidians had spoken a dubbed alien language, especially when it's just them and their droids and only speaking their accented Basic when talking with Darth Sidious or the Queen.

All the Nemoidians needed were fu-manchu's and you would get what most people were seeing. This is straight outta Ming the Merciless, so it makes sense and is totally innocent. Check some of those old Ming scenes out. However, that stuff don't fly anymore.

[toddly6666]

What's next ? Jar Jar Binks not only culturally represents Buster Keaton, but he also is an intelligent representation of Chaplin, Tati, Jackie Chan, and Harold Lloyd?

There is no explanation or rationale for having a bumbling CGI a-hole other than to please little kids and show off dated cgi technology.

[Weirded Wonder]

Originally Posted by The Doof

The other inspiration for Jah Jah. People can deny this all they want, and I'm sure Lucas DID NOT intend it or do it consciously. But it is there.

Excerpt from "Miracle in Harlem" (1948) - YouTube


And I'm not disputing you or ridiculing you either. I remember seeing an interview about the writing of Ep. 1 when he was just getting started and he took a break from writing to watch "the General." If only we had known what that would lead to...

That was painful to watch. It was like watching Ahmed Best's screen test.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by Beard Esquire

OMG! O-buh K-bee.

I know, I wasn't trying to be offensive but the minute I saw Jar Jar in TPM, Mushmouth appeared in my head. I was like, George, you might want to pay Mr. Cosby some royalities...

Regardless, no need to dwell on Jar Jar being what he is. Everyone in this thread knows it is just a goofy character designed for kids. Adults (like you and I) see something else in our very PC world which may or may not be there. But to the target audience, Jar Jar was a Gungan who needed speech therapy.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by Beard Esquire

That was painful to watch. It was like watching Ahmed Best's screen test.

Conservative Rich White Dude makes unintentional racial stereotype: film at 11.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by Jay444

I know, I wasn't trying to be offensive but the minute I saw Jar Jar in TPM, Mushmouth appeared in my head. I was like, George, you might want to pay Mr. Cosby some royalities...

Regardless, no need to dwell on Jar Jar being what he is. Everyone in this thread knows it is just a goofy character designed for kids. Adults (like you and I) see something else in our very PC world which may or may not be there. But to the target audience, Jar Jar was a Gungan who needed speech therapy.

Thisa is truesa.