Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Booker Dewitt]

Originally Posted by retablo

George has been seen in photos wearing a "Han shoots first" shirt.

You really viewed that as anything more than a joke?

[Dynamo of Eternia]

That's an interesting analysis, bdmckinl. And it makes a lot of sense all things considered.

Also based on the recent interview, it seems that he is trying to justify this as if what he is doing is perfectly normal when he says that most movies get changed when they are released. The reality is that most movies aren't changed, and in most cases where a movie is changed, both (or all) versions are made available, and there isn't additional, continuous changes being made with each future release. He's trying to convince himself that what he's doing isn't out of the ordinary, but it very, very much is.

[bdmckinl]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

it seems that he is trying to justify this as if what he is doing is perfectly normal when he says that most movies get changed when they are released.

I agree - by minimizing the issue or by going to great mental lengths to explain away why it isn't an issue at all, it allows him to deflect 'blame' to others just as retablo said a few posts back (in this case the fans angered by his endless tinkering). Again, quite typical in individuals with OCD. His recent statements could be denial, could be lack of insight, could be merely public manoeuvring... I can't say.

[Chiyo_chichi]

Originally Posted by retablo

He has also clearly lost it in a new interview where he says emphatically that Greedo NEVER shot first, that it was just confusion on the part of the viewer since the scene was shot in closeups... even though the script has Han shooting first and George has been seen in photos wearing a "Han shoots first" shirt. I guess (incorrectly) blaming the viewer is his psychological way of taking all the blame off himself, which reveals a major mental problem.

After this really does deserve all the backlash he gets from fans. He is doing nothing but embarrassing himself at this point.

I think the diagnoses are a little far.

He made a change that people don't like, but he's since stuck to his guns that this is the way he wants it. As for that T-shirt, I'm sure someone got it for him as a gag gift, or he saw it and bought it out of sheer amazement that such a thing has ballooned into pop culture. As he said in a recent interview the movies aren't a religion, and that shirt is one way of saying it, non-verbally.

IMO unfortunately a lot of the hardcore fans aren't helping. Stuff like fan edits only have been adding to the fire, as why is it okay for fans to edit the movies, but not Lucas.

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by bdmckinl

Hello all:

[Show spoiler]I've read and enjoyed this thread for many moons, and I've watched and enjoyed Star Wars movies and documentaries for many moons as well. This morning it occurred to me that perhaps the perspective I myself have formulated over the years about the latter might help with some of the wounds and sense of betrayal many of you have experienced towards George Lucas, and communicate so well in this forum.

As a clinical psychologist who specializes in obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) and who also manages OCD in himself, George Lucas exhibits a myriad of signs of this disorder in his interviews, interactions with others, and choices within the Star Wars universe - for example, persevering on what are clearly unpleasant thoughts for him (perceived imperfections and grudges in decades-old work, the reactions of fans) and engaging in many compulsions of (what clinicians would describe as) the, 'Just Right' variety - requiring everything to be ordered, arranged and/or changed to fit an internal, idiosyncratic (and not necessarily logical) definition of 'perfection'.

[Show spoiler]A good example of this would be his insistence that the original Star Wars be renamed "Episode IV" so that the title can 'look' consistent with all the others.

Now, I don't pretend to believe this is some brilliant theory that no one else has ever postulated, nor to suggest that someone can be diagnosed by someone whose never even met the man or anyone he knows. I only decided finally to post because I wondered if my perspectives (both professional and personal) on OCD might help some people wrap their heads around some of the past 'choices' Mr. Lucas has made which seem on the surface to be personal and disrespectful.

Think of the obsessions in OCD as being an 'itch' (in this situation, a cognitive itch), and the compulsions as being the 'scratch' (an action which relieves the mental tension). We all know that, when we scratch an itch, while that technically is a choice it is nevertheless a 'choice' we give in to under ever-increasing internal pressure to do so. In the case of something like poison ivy or the chicken pox, making that 'choice' to scratch the itch invariably leads to a negative outcome that is actually against our best interests. Yet we feel forever helplessly trapped between two unpalatable scenarios - either suffer through the unrelenting 'itch', or relent yourself and suffer through the negative consequences of 'scratching'.

For years I've been of the opinion that no one has wanted George Lucas to leave Star Wars alone more than George Lucas. I believe that the very condition that made Star Wars so wildly successful (OCD drive and perfectionism has been a source of great achievement for many in history) has become the man's prison. His unpalatable choice has become either betraying his ideals (e.g to not alter film, ala the Turner situation) and incurring the wrath of legions of fans he clearly cares about, or subjecting himself to a never-ending itch he may not know how to endure. From this perspective, it makes sense that he tries (perhaps more and more in vain) to explain to fans why 'he' did what 'he' did. It's like a victim of abuse making excuses for the abuser, and by explaining away the sometimes-damaging 'choices' his OCD makes (to himself as well) he can foster within himself the illusion of control over oneself we all need to be able to live with ourselves. The man's got to be able to sleep at night.

Now of course there is treatment for OCD (and a very effective treatment at that); however, one has to be motivated to engage in it. If, for whatever reason, it is less bothersome (at least at first) to merely scratch the itch than it is to learn to eliminate the itch altogether, the person will likely not participate in treatment and may not even have good insight into his/her condition. Unfortunately, in the case of OCD, continuing to 'scratch the itch' only strengthens the itch and weakens the person scratching it. Over time the individual with OCD (and those around him/her) becomes more and more a victim of the OCD and more and more at its mercy.

In some ways, then, George Lucas reminds me of Howard Hughes - my thought is that both of these men, by being so successful and eventually so wealthy, fashioned for themselves a life where they could have and pay for anything they (or, more accurately, their OCD) wanted. Thus sealing their fate. In essence, I agree with those who have posted here in the past that George Lucas needs someone to say no to him. I would only slightly alter that to say that George Lucas needs someone to help him to say no to his OCD...

I really feel for George Lucas, and by saying that I'm not saying I think everything the man does is the right choice - for his fan base, OR for him. I think George is in a very big and unpleasant hole he never wanted to be in in the first place and he doesn't know how to get out of it. Moreover, I think that George and his fans actually have a common enemy - the OCD which plagues him (and, by extension, us). Finally, I suspect that those close to him know these things about him - accounting for, for example, the clear empathy a Steven Spielberg has when discussing his maligned and misunderstood friend.

Thanks for the thoughtful and thought-provoking post.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Petyr_Baelish

Weta is honestly superior to ILM. It is a lot more difficult to make an ape look real than a shiny giant robot.

Those apes, while outstanding, still look CG. There's a softness to Caesar's face and body that just doesn't line up with his environment.

There's only been one character that I've seen that until I found out he was CG I thought it was makeup and CG assisted animatronics. And guess which studio created him?



PS: Why do ILM's dinosaurs from 1993 still look superior to WETA's in 2005?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

And, if ILM had done the CG in LOTR with the same backdrop to work with, I suspect they would have looked just as good.

Except characters added via bluescreen wouldn't be floating above their miniature environments like they do throughout the LOTR trilogy.
Compare the zoom above the fortress when they arrive at Helm's Deep. It looks like people are walking on glass. Then compare the shot of Obi-Wan approaching the youngling training room in the Jedi Temple. It looks like a giant set, not the miniature that it was.

[Presence]

I watched the first 5 episodes for the first time ever this week. I'll be watching the finale tonight or tomorrow.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Booker Dewitt

You really viewed that as anything more than a joke?

And that matters how? I doubt very seriously he'd "promote" something if he honestly never had any intention of it... therein lies his big flaw. Regardless, the original script specifically states that han shoots first, so now he's a 100% liar. Unless it's just confusing in the script, too, because he's a terrible writer... oh wait....

[insomniac013]

When exactly did this turn into the "ILM vs WETA" Thread? C'mon they're both great teams! Both have done amazing work on various movies throughout history: Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Pixar, Gollum, Davy Jones, Avatar, Transformers - simply brilliant!

Now, lets get back on track and mindlessly hate on Old Man Jorge! I'll start: 3, 2, 1....

You know what i've been dying to see for a long time now? A Star Wars reboot! A brand new film series featuring no involvement from Lucas whatsoever!

[JamesKurtovich]

I would love a reboot of the prequels! Episode II will be Episode I, Episode III will be split over Episodes II and III and will feature a more mature and less bratty Anakin.

Just came back from TPM 3D. Kind of wish I saw The Grey instead.

[NYorker]

Here's a review of the 3D TPM: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/02/10...e-phantom.html

I loved the line: "We don't want to remember it's pretty bad. Then we do."

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by insomniac013

You know what i've been dying to see for a long time now? A Star Wars reboot! A brand new film series featuring no involvement from Lucas whatsoever!

So you want the universe Lucas created, just with no Lucas instead? That's kind of like saying you want "Alice in Wonderland" without the slightest influence or idea coming from Lewis Carroll.

There's a lot of other sci-fi franchises out there, why can't people just pick one they like and enjoy that to their hearts' content?

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by NYorker

I loved the line: "We don't want to remember it's pretty bad. Then we do."

That's really not what my experience has been. I always remembered it being a really great movie to watch and just fun all around - and it's still a lot of fun 13 years later.

I'm only sorry I have only seen it twice in 3-D so far. Hope to watch it a few more times during the initial week of re-release.

[FC4L]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

That's really not what my experience has been. I always remembered it being a really great movie to watch and just fun all around - and it's still a lot of fun 13 years later.

I'm only sorry I have only seen it twice in 3-D so far. Hope to watch it a few more times during the initial week of re-release.

I've seen it once, which makes it the 10th big screen viewing for me. Took my 3 year old nephew for his birthday. He loved it. Loved Jar Jar. Loved the battle droids. Thought Darth Maul was scary and the Jedi were awesome. He also loved the story of a little boy saving the day.

Found the 3D to be very well done. It looked the most natural as I've seen in any 3D film. Things didn't jump off the screen and they didn't need to. The depth and dimension made the Theed Palace look even more beautiful and the lightsabre battle was phenomenal. Can't wait for the massive Geonisis battle in Clones and the waterfall drop-off in Sith. Oh and scored 5 pairs of Darth Maul 3D glasses when others just left theirs sitting in their drink cups. Bonus!

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by FC4L

I've seen it once, which makes it the 10th big screen viewing for me. Took my 3 year old nephew for his birthday. He loved it. Loved Jar Jar. Loved the battle droids. Thought Darth Maul was scary and the Jedi were awesome. He also loved the story of a little boy saving the day.

Found the 3D to be very well done. It looked the most natural as I've seen in any 3D film. Things didn't jump off the screen and they didn't need to. The depth and dimension makde the Theed Palace look even more beautiful and the lightsarbe battle was phenomenal. Can't wait for the massic Geonisis battle in Clones and the waterfall drop-off in Sith. Oh and scored 5 pairs of Darth Maul 3D glasses when others just left theirs sitting in their drink cups. Bonus!

Sounds really awesome!!

I've only seen the 3-D version twice, so far. I like that it's not so much the kind of 3-D that "pops out" as much as the one that makes everything seem more immersive. I kind of get now why Lucas thought that James Cameron was right in working from the premise that when you create fully CG-animated characters interacting with live actors, it's going to work better in 3-D. It does help to sell the illusion in some small but meaningful way.

You're right about the Geonosis battle in AOTC - and I would imagine perhaps also the Coruscant chase, and the Jango vs. Obi-Wan battle. They are going to look soooo awesome. Oh and the Palpatine duel and the final duel in ROTS. They are going to totally rock!

[FC4L]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Sounds really awesome!!

I've only seen the 3-D version twice, so far. I like that it's not so much the kind of 3-D that "pops out" as much as the one that makes everything seem more immersive. I kind of get now why Lucas thought that James Cameron was right in working from the premise that when you create fully CG-animated characters interacting with live actors, it's going to work better in 3-D. It does help to sell the illusion in some small but meaningful way.

You're right about the Geonosis battle in AOTC - and I would imagine perhaps also the Coruscant chase, and the Jango vs. Obi-Wan battle. They are going to look soooo awesome. Oh and the Palpatine duel and the final duel in ROTS. They are going to totally rock!

Yeah Jar Jar really does "fit in" better in 3D, though some of his dialoge still makes no sense! I think the asteroid chase in in ATOC will be really impressive, thinking back to that film now. Loved the pod race and my favourite shot in the film got even better. Maul appearing on Naboo was also very meanacing. 2 thumbs up from me!

[insomniac013]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

So you want the universe Lucas created, just with no Lucas instead? That's kind of like saying you want "Alice in Wonderland" without the slightest influence or idea coming from Lewis Carroll.

Lucas is a better world-builder/producer than he is a director and especially screenwriter. A Star Wars film with him doing neither would be amazing! (cough*Empire*cough)

Kind of like what they're doing with the "Clone Wars" show which i hear is pretty good. Only with, you know... Less Prequel-characters.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by insomniac013

You know what i've been dying to see for a long time now? A Star Wars reboot! A brand new film series featuring no involvement from Lucas whatsoever!

Dont even say such things. With Hollywood clearly out of ideas - hence remaking and rebooting everything and making movies from turn-based board games.... we cant even whisper such things. Dont even think them.

The good news is that George/Family controls and owns all of it so there wont be a remake as long as Im alive which is good enough for me.

[iamsometal]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

I like how in that article he points to Blade Runner as an example as to how often movies are altered... so it's not really a big deal.

He kind of missed the fact that Ridley Scott personally insisted that each and every version of Blade Runner was released in high quality on BD so fans of the original theatrical version (and Director's Cut version, etc.) would always have that option. Then he goes on to imply releasing only one version of Star Wars, "the improved version" as he puts it, as opposed to releasing a few different cuts (including the original) as Ridley Scott did is somehow preferable. Hahaha. He's great.

I don't know why he doesn't go out and claim Hayden Christensen was always at the end of Jedi... he just didn't appear properly due to limitations of the time (complicated close ups, not yet being born, etc.)

My thoughts, exactly. Well said! The Blade Runner Complete Collection is the prime example of a filmmaker really caring for the fans that made him an insanely wealthy man. Lucas, if he still had the slightest amount of sanity left, would have followed suit. Sadly, Lucas has lost touch with reality a very long time ago, and couldn't care less what the people that made him filthy rich want.