Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Episode 7 will reveal that Leia is somehow not the Leia Twin, but a different Leia!

That would make more sense than the way it stands now with Leia being able to remember her mother when shed died .003 seconds after giving birth to her.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Episode 7 will reveal that Leia is somehow not the Leia Twin, but a different Leia!

Originally Posted by stvn1974

That would make more sense than the way it stands now with Leia being able to remember her mother when shed died .003 seconds after giving birth to her.

The return of Nellith Skywalker!

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

That would make more sense than the way it stands now with Leia being able to remember her mother when shed died .003 seconds after giving birth to her.

That's one of the few revisionist things I half-buy - the whole "she felt the kindness imprinted via the force" - but it's still extremely flimsy, I agree. And he really couldn't edit around that in the special editions, either - because that scene is so light on logic and content to begin with (and, even she admits, was the worst scene Carrie Fisher performed in the entire trilogy).

It's the Obi-wan thing in ANH that really just stands out as a very sore thumb to me. It's one of those reasons the Special Editions seem so half-assed to me, because he went so far in other areas where it wasn't necessary, showing he didn't care about the integrity of the original material (sticking whiny teen Anakin in RoJ, etc.) - he could have edited Obi-wan's statements to not be so blatantly lies by removing a line or two. It's kind of like he spent all that time adding that cringe-inducing kiddie-music video at Jabba's, but didn't really do anything to fix the matte issues with the Rancor sequence. Like the prequels themselves, it's the choices made, not the concept, that really makes it easier to rub one the wrong way.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

When I got to Star Wars, I was pretty shocked because I didn't remember just how many plot holes in the OT itself exist, particularly with Obi-wan's statements in ANH regarding Anakin. His statements in ROJ that what he said was true "from a certain point of view", well, no, he is very specific and it's not haha. And reading the books confirms that no, the plot twist in ESB really was not intended to begin with.

That said, the surprising thing is that the ROJ plot twist was actually planned, in a way -

[Show spoiler]at one point during pre-production on Star Wars, as many of us know, Luke became a girl for a short time - and briefly developed into the concept of twins (which was always out there somewhere in his overall vision as a concept in general to be used in some way), and according to the book (which is actually pretty astounding in how it lets things "all hang out") eventually they just split the character into two. Now, once they actually started making the films, it seems that concept was dropped, until RoJ when Lucas found himself needing to resolve the "no, there is another" plot hole and he went with an easy way out.

So, while they were actually making the first two, it wasn't actually intended to happen in RoJ - but in a way, it was true that it was part of an earlier concept, so it wasn't quite as "pulled out of a hat" as it always seemed...from a certain point of view. ;-)

Yeah, the idea of twins was floated in a very early draft (and I remember being similarly, like, "woah", when I read that bit in Rinzler's 'making of' book), but I won't give Lucas credit for pulling it out of his ass when he needed a quick resolution. I think he's a genuine American hero for what he's contributed to cinema, but he can't write for shit.

[RandyK]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

Yeah, that just seems...weird to me. Ending on a cliffhanger, and then going back and then forward again - even Lucas didn't propose it get that convoluted LOL.

I'd say there are really only two ways - Episode order or Release order. For kids I'd do Episode order, for various reasons, and for an adult I'd do release order. Anything else is just...weird, kind of like how they have retroactively gone back and re-numbered the Chronicles of Narnia (though they were written out of order to begin with, personally the new order makes less sense than it did originally even though it purports to be chronological now).

Thanks. I'll probably do the theatrical release order. Here's the article I was reading that mentions four ways to watch them: LINK

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah, the idea of twins was floated in a very early draft (and I remember being similarly, like, "woah", when I read that bit in Rinzler's 'making of' book), but I won't give Lucas credit for pulling it out of his ass when he needed a quick resolution. I think he's a genuine American hero for what he's contributed to cinema, but he can't write for shit.

Oh, absolutely - which is why I pulled out the "from a certain point of view" reference. It was clearly pulled out (and the RoJ book even states it) to fill up that plot hole of "the other" which by that point when he had decided not to do the later films and needed to wrap up (I believe one of the going thoughts he had at the time was that it would be a sibling who grew up on another planet we hadn't seen yet, and it was just too much to possibly fit into ROJ).

And I completely agree on Lucas - he brought us Star Wars, that's enough to make anyone about as cool as can ever be. And reading the three books we are talking about, I have even more admiration for him. And I'm greatful. It's the revisionist stuff that gets to me - it's super, super clear from those books (which even detail each and every draft of the films) that everything was constantly in-flux, but Lucas does (did) have a way over the years of glossing a lot over and acting as if the entire thing was planned out the same way from the beginning. I was shocked at how late from the Star Wars production that things like the Kiber Crystal, etc. were dropped. Those books were absolutely fascinating.

Originally Posted by RandyK

Thanks. I'll probably do the theatrical release order. Here's the article I was reading that mentions four ways to watch them: LINK

Thanks for the link! Skimmed it a bit - book marked it to read later on tonight. While I may not agree with the conclusion, I am interested in the methodology behind it.

[Gold Ranger]

I still think the biggest screw up in the entire 6 film saga is that Obi-Wan has no idea about Leia, but yet, is present at her birth!

[Deathbymonkeys]

Episode 4 and 5. Then 1-3. Then 6.

[JimmyTwoTimes]

On a side note, I'd recommend you guys check out Marvel's original Star Wars comic book series if you can. The whole thing has recently been reprinted in five omnibus volumes from Dark Horse. The series started with an adaptation of the first film (complete with the missing scenes), then told original stories before adapting ESB, then more original stories before adapting ROTJ, and finally closing out the series with many more original stories set after ROTJ.

It's a strange and sometimes goofy series, but we must remember that Star Wars itself wasn't really defined at this point; the series started the same year as the movie came out. It's a fun series and a fascinating read, largely because of the inconsistencies later movies would reveal (Luke's father was clearly not Darth Vader, Jabba the Hutt appears as an antagonist for Solo as a fairly humanoid alien, there's a great flashback story with Obi-Wan as a younger Jedi, etc.) There's also a story on Tatooine that shows Luke and his friends having a Star Hopper race through the desert that really does seem oddly similar to the Podrace idea of Episode 1. Of course, some of these things were quietly glossed over when the later movie adaptations began. Also, the post-Jedi stories are very interesting too. The rebels are on Endor for quite a while, and the characters try to figure out what the hell to do with the New Republic while tying up loose ends with the remnants of the Empire. There's also some great exchanges between Luke and Leia where the confront their feelings about their father and decide whether or not to tell anyone else the truth about him. Like I said, it's interesting to read in light of subsequent Star Wars developments, it's got some great art and characters (most of the time) and a heck of a lot of imagination. Those early issues are almost like a SW expanded universe from the twilight zone. Very cool stuff.

Anyone else familiar with the series?

[RandyK]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

Thanks for the link! Skimmed it a bit - book marked it to read later on tonight. While I may not agree with the conclusion, I am interested in the methodology behind it.

Not a problem.

There's no guarantee that Disney does a remaster of the films correct? And if they did it wouldn't be for awhile? (and it would probably be expensive because hey, it's Disney).

Just want to make sure this is the set to get. Not overly picky about AV quality and this set got a 4 on this site and that's good enough for me.

[GrouchoFan]

Originally Posted by RandyK

What's a good order to watch these for a first time viewer?

And don't say "just watch the original trilogy." I want to see them all.

It's not just a question of order, but rather, how many times should you watch each film before moving on to the next one?

Episode IV: watch about 75-100 times before moving on to--
Episdode V: again, watch about 75-100 times before moving on to--
Episode VI: really, 25-50 times is probably enough.

Then wait several years (you may listen to the soundtrack albums about a thousand times while waiting) before seeing--

Episode I: 2 or 3 times
Episode II: 3 or 4 times
Episode III: maybe 10 times

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

I still think the biggest screw up in the entire 6 film saga is that Obi-Wan has no idea about Leia, but yet, is present at her birth!

He's the one that tells Luke Leia is his sister. He wasn't aware that she was force sensitive. I think that's what Yoda was referring to.

[B72]

Originally Posted by GrouchoFan

It's not just a question of order, but rather, how many times should you watch each film before moving on to the next one?

Episode IV: watch about 75-100 times before moving on to--
Episdode V: again, watch about 75-100 times before moving on to--
Episode VI: really, 25-50 times is probably enough.

Then wait several years (you may listen to the soundtrack albums about a thousand times while waiting) before seeing--

Episode I: 2 or 3 times
Episode II: 3 or 4 times
Episode III: maybe 10 times

Haha that's great

As far as the Original Trilogy
I listened to the soundtracks and even the retelling of the stories on albums made of vinyl
Long after the film had left the theaters

there was 3 years in between episodes , which seemed like an eternity

[ImAWalkingCorpse]

Originally Posted by B72

Haha that's great

As far as the Original Trilogy
I listened to the soundtracks and even the retelling of the stories on albums made of vinyl
Long after the film had left the theaters

there was 3 years in between episodes , which seemed like an eternity

It did. I remember the excitement for ESB and ROTJ to come to theaters.

[ImAWalkingCorpse]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I so wish I could relive the moment I saw Empire Strikes Back for the first time

Do you remember the theater you saw it at for the first time?

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by B72

Me too -
but for me it started in 1977

It wasn't released in Blighty until the following year, so I never would have seen it in '77.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

He's the one that tells Luke Leia is his sister. He wasn't aware that she was force sensitive. I think that's what Yoda was referring to.

Yoda's just not as sexist as Obi-wan.

Actually, the scene between Obi-wan and Yoda immediately precedes the shot of Leia in Cloud City, which was always something of a giveaway that the "other" was her.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah, the idea of twins was floated in a very early draft (and I remember being similarly, like, "woah", when I read that bit in Rinzler's 'making of' book), but I won't give Lucas credit for pulling it out of his ass when he needed a quick resolution. I think he's a genuine American hero for what he's contributed to cinema, but he can't write for shit.

I think that a lot of the original fans considered Lucas to be of a demi-god status back when we were younger because he'd brought Star Wars to us wide-eyed kids and we were forever changed. We got older and discovered that - surprise, surprise - he's only human like the rest of us and, to quote Dickens, "liable to fall". It's clearly a revelation that a lot of us have found hard to take

[cb1]

Originally Posted by ImAWalkingCorpse

Do you remember the theater you saw it at for the first time?

I do, the Lowes 70mm in Paramus, NJ Day one. we cut school from North Arlington,NJ and took the bus to the Paramus mall and walked about a mile to the theater.

This place was huge, only had one screen. I miss those days.....

[Deathbymonkeys]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

I think that a lot of the original fans considered Lucas to be of a demi-god status back when we were younger because he'd brought Star Wars to us wide-eyed kids and we were forever changed. We got older and discovered that - surprise, surprise - he's only human like the rest of us and, to quote Dickens, "liable to fall". It's clearly a revelation that a lot of us have found hard to take

Speak for yourself. I still think he's the greatest thing to ever happen to the world of movies.