Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

Not really, it is me trying to rationalize the entire thing being poorly written and executed. Anakin turns so quickly and easily to the Dark Side that Palpatine probably could have done it during The Phantom Menace with ice cream.

I disagree. What's great about Sith is that EVERYONE wants a piece of Anakin. The Jedi ask him to spy on Palpatine. Palpatine asks him to spy on the Jedi. Padme asks him to influence Palpatine. In the end he's so confused that he gives in to the one man who he thinks can give him answers to his problems. I love the way he says "What have I done?!" after he disarms (heh) Mace and Palps kills him; at that point he must either give himself over fully to Palps or he'll be killed on the spot, so he chooses the dark path to save Padme at which point he really does seem to be in thrall to Palpatine. And then Palpatine drops the bombshell that he doesn't even know how to cheat death himself, so Anakin's already been betrayed in that respect.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I disagree. What's great about Sith is that EVERYONE wants a piece of Anakin. The Jedi ask him to spy on Palpatine. Palpatine asks him to spy on the Jedi. Padme asks him to influence Palpatine. In the end he's so confused that he gives in to the one man who he thinks can give him answers to his problems. I love the way he says "What have I done?!" after he disarms (heh) Mace and Palps kills him; at that point he must either give himself over fully to Palps or he'll be killed on the spot, so he chooses the dark path to save Padme at which point he really does seem to be in thrall to Palpatine. And then Palpatine drops the bombshell that he doesn't even know how to cheat death himself, so Anakin's already been betrayed in that respect.

The way I always interpreted it is Palpatine does know how to cheat death, and that's exactly what he's been doing using his powers to extend his own life. But of course he wouldn't want to share this with Anakin, for various reasons.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

The way I always interpreted it is Palpatine does know how to cheat death, and that's exactly what he's been doing using his powers to extend his own life. But of course he wouldn't want to share this with Anakin, for various reasons.

I've always seen it as Palpatine really didn't know and he was just using that as a hook to tempt Anakin, so once he'd turned him he got it out in the open straight away and knew Anakin wouldn't be able to refuse him.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I've always seen it as Palpatine really didn't know and he was just using that as a hook to tempt Anakin, so once he'd turned him he got it out in the open straight away and knew Anakin wouldn't be able to refuse him.

That's something I like about Revenge of the Sith, Lucas wrote a lot of the stuff concerning Palpatine in a way that leaves it open to personal interpretation. Like when he talks about Darth Plagueis (was he the apprentice or not, is he implying he influenced the Midi-chlorians to create Anakin), did the force lightning twist his appearance or did he take the opportunity to reveal what he really looks like, etc.

It's really left up to the viewer to decide and I like that. I haven't seen the Clone Wars yet though, so I don't know if any of these things have been given definite answers in that series?

[Optimus]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

That's something I like about Revenge of the Sith, Lucas wrote a lot of the stuff concerning Palpatine in a way that leaves it open to personal interpretation. Like when he talks about Darth Plagueis (was he the apprentice or not, is he implying he influenced the Midi-chlorians to create Anakin), did the force lightning twist his appearance or did he take the opportunity to reveal what he really looks like, etc.

It's really left up to the viewer to decide and I like that. I haven't seen the Clone Wars yet though, so I don't know if any of these things have been given definite answers in that series?

Palpatine was the apprentice to Plagueis, though there's this quote from one of the novels that I find interesting.

"You lost the game on the very first day you chose to train me to rule by your side—or better still under your thumb. Teacher, yes, and for that I will be eternally grateful. But Master—never."

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

That's something I like about Revenge of the Sith, Lucas wrote a lot of the stuff concerning Palpatine in a way that leaves it open to personal interpretation. Like when he talks about Darth Plagueis (was he the apprentice or not, is he implying he influenced the Midi-chlorians to create Anakin), did the force lightning twist his appearance or did he take the opportunity to reveal what he really looks like, etc.

It's really left up to the viewer to decide and I like that. I haven't seen the Clone Wars yet though, so I don't know if any of these things have been given definite answers in that series?

Not really, no. Clone Wars ties up most of the dangling plot threads created between Ep II and III, which informs some of the events in the third film but not all. Still, there's no need to explain everything.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by OptimusL

Palpatine was the apprentice to Plagueis, though there's this quote from one of the novels that I find interesting.

"You lost the game on the very first day you chose to train me to rule by your side—or better still under your thumb. Teacher, yes, and for that I will be eternally grateful. But Master—never."

I know about the novels, but those aren't really considered canon are they? Far as I know it's just the films and the Clone Wars that are official canon now, as well as everything Disney (or Lucasfilm under Disney, if you will) makes from here on out.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Not really, no. Clone Wars ties up most of the dangling plot threads created between Ep II and III, which informs some of the events in the third film but not all. Still, there's no need to explain everything.

Oh yeah, I agree it's not something we need a definite answer to. I like a bit of mystery. Though judging by the rumors, it seems the sequel trilogy may deal a bit with that stuff. Time will tell.

[SethRex]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I've always seen it as Palpatine really didn't know and he was just using that as a hook to tempt Anakin, so once he'd turned him he got it out in the open straight away and knew Anakin wouldn't be able to refuse him.

I read it as this. Palpatine never tells Anakin he knew how to do it but implies it's out there ready to be learned. When he turns Anakin to the dark side, he basically says that he doesn't know how to do it, but together they can learn the secret behind it.

[Optimus]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

I know about the novels, but those aren't really considered canon are they? Far as I know it's just the films and the Clone Wars that are official canon now, as well as everything Disney (or Lucasfilm under Disney, if you will) makes from here on out.



Oh yeah, I agree it's not something we need a definite answer to. I like a bit of mystery. Though judging by the rumors, it seems the sequel trilogy may deal a bit with that stuff. Time will tell.

Yeah but tbh I just really liked that quote lol. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they still borrow some things from the EU, at least from the past timelines. In the Clone Wars they used a character from the novels (Darth Bane).

[MechaGodzilla]

So far I'm pretty alone in thinking Palpatine was just lying to Anakin when he said that, interesting. Well, think of it like this, if he knows how to cheat death, why would he want Anakin to know? Padmé dying benefits Palpatine, as it means Anakin has nothing left for him, nothing to hold him back from just joining Palpatine and the Empire, plus the resulting negative emotions are great motivators for a Sith. Also, he wouldn't want Anakin to try and dispose of him once he'd learned all the useful tricks, the way Palpatine implies he did with his master.

[Geoff D]

Well, as you say we could learn the answer to that mystery with the new films. Or perhaps it'll expand upon Palpatine's explanation of Sith lore to Anakin: Lucas knew there'd be a third trilogy eventually so Palps mentioning Plagueis may not have been just a piece of background story but also a breadcrumb trail to follow into the new trilogy, with Plagueis (who possibly DID cheat death, unbeknownst to his apprentice) as the big bad.

[MTRodaba2468]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

OMG...
LMAO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj-GZJhfBmI#t=46

That is my new favorite thing on the Internet.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

Not really, it is me trying to rationalize the entire thing being poorly written and executed. Anakin turns so quickly and easily to the Dark Side that Palpatine probably could have done it during The Phantom Menace with ice cream.

I agree.. I also feel that it was too quick of a turn.
Though if you read the Novel for Episode III it makes so much more sense!

[Cook]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

I know about the novels, but those aren't really considered canon are they? Far as I know it's just the films and the Clone Wars that are official canon now, as well as everything Disney (or Lucasfilm under Disney, if you will) makes from here on out.

Starting with the new book "A New Dawn" all books games comics and tv shows released from here on out is official canon. Anything published before A New Dawn is no longer canon aside from clone wars and the films that have already been released.

Lucasfilm and the Canon Group that keeps it all straight have said that the new books and shows and comics aren't required reading and viewing to be able to enjoy the new films but reading and watching that stuff will add to the experience of the films. I have yet to read A New Dawn but I plan to. I never was able to catch up on the EU, but I'd like to stay on top of this new canon so I know as much as possible about the Star Wars universe.

[CGHULK]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

I'm pretty sure that if you helped kill a friend and mentor, you'd be feeling pretty sick too.
Also, he realizes/feels that he can never go back to the Jedi after what happened and is now forced to stay with Sidious.

He doesn't look sick that's the problem. His response doesn't even measure up to anything realistic, I don't know what George or Hayden were thinking with that performance. Because I said Anakin looks like he has acid reflux/indigestion isn't the same as him looking sick from killing a friend and mentor. Instead he looks like he is gassy and needs a good antacid.

Lets all yell what have I done after betraying everything you know to be good and true, and then in the next second respond like you just have a little gas sounding completely out of character from how you were behaving before. Anakin's response flipped so drastically that I can't even take it seriously.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Cook

Starting with the new book "A New Dawn" all books games comics and tv shows released from here on out is official canon. Anything published before A New Dawn is no longer canon aside from clone wars and the films that have already been released.

Lucasfilm and the Canon Group that keeps it all straight have said that the new books and shows and comics aren't required reading and viewing to be able to enjoy the new films but reading and watching that stuff will add to the experience of the films. I have yet to read A New Dawn but I plan to. I never was able to catch up on the EU, but I'd like to stay on top of this new canon so I know as much as possible about the Star Wars universe.

Not true. There will still be "Old Canon" stuff coming out.
That will fall under the Star Wars Legends Banner.

[Optimus]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Not true. There will still be "Old Canon" stuff coming out.
That will fall under the Star Wars Legends Banner.

Can you expand on this?

[CGHULK]

Originally Posted by OptimusL

Can you expand on this?

http://www.starwars.com/news/the-leg...rns-a-new-page

Demand for past tales of the Expanded Universe will keep them in print, presented under the new Legends banner.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by KaineKinetic

Not true. There will still be "Old Canon" stuff coming out.
That will fall under the Star Wars Legends Banner.

I meant all new stuff published, but thank you for pointing this out. I figured they'd republish old canon material for simple profit if for no other reason but I hadn't heard one way or the other.

So just to clarify, all new material from here on out is canon unless otherwise stated by the Canon Group at Lucasfilm. This also includes the new version of "Heir to the Jedi" that comes out next year. According to Amazon it is "written from Luke's first person perspective for the first time ever". Idk what all they changed to make it align with the new canon but I'm curious to find out. I'm also curious whether they will alter other old EU material and republish it as a part of the new canon.

And alll republished material from the old EU is "legend" unless otherwise stated by the Canon Group.

Well, I'm certainly glad to see that they will be using a clear way of letting buyers know what's canon and what's not. The Legends moniker is clever.

[GuruAskew]

Originally Posted by Cook

So just to clarify, all new material from here on out is canon unless otherwise stated by the Canon Group at Lucasfilm. This also includes the new version of "Heir to the Jedi" that comes out next year. According to Amazon it is "written from Luke's first person perspective for the first time ever". Idk what all they changed to make it align with the new canon but I'm curious to find out. I'm also curious whether they will alter other old EU material and republish it as a part of the new canon.

And alll republished material from the old EU is "legend" unless otherwise stated by the Canon Group.

Heir to the Jedi isn't an old EU novel rewritten to be match the new canon. You're confusing it with the similarly-titled Heir to the Empire. It did have to be rewritten to comply with the new canon as it was already in the works before they did away with the old EU but it's always been a new book.

There are also other new canon things, the first thing to actually fall under the new canon was a serial story printed in Star Wars insider and it actually started a few weeks before the canon announcement. The Darth Maul comic should be canon too.