Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[DanzG]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Do we know who is doing the review for this set?

I really hope it's Ken Brown. He will tell it like it is, for better or for worse.

I have a feeling even if Ken gave this a 4.5 or 5 review you would still call BS on it. I feel you are just bound to hate this set no matter what but of course... that is my opinion. lol

[Rocklandsboy]

Great news about the sound.

I always thought TPM and ROTS especially sounded weak on the DVDs. I'm hoping the DTS mix has given them a bit of a kicking.

And then of course you have the ANH DVD debacle with the flipped music channels and missing bars during the Yavin sequence.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

Reference quality for a '77 film. Nothing I have seen from that era comes close, but it would never be a 5. It is not comparable to modern films, even ROTS. I was using this site as a guide. If xmen FC Can't get a 5, ANH probably doesn't deserve one. Personal opinion though, you might think otherwise.

Apocalypse Now. Taxi Driver. Once Upon A Time In The West. 2001: A Space Odyssey. The Sound of Music. Casablanca.

What have you seen from that era (or older) that you are comparing it to?

[DanzG]

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

Great news about the sound.

I always thought TPM and ROTS especially sounded weak on the DVDs. I'm hoping the DTS mix has given them a bit of a kicking.

And then of course you have the ANH DVD debacle with the flipped music channels and missing bars during the Yavin sequence.

The first scene I am checking out is the asteroid fight scene between Jango and Obi-wan. I remember back in the theater how damn impressive those sonic booms sounded it just knocked the breath out of me just about it was very awesome I am hoping the blu-ray is going to sound like that once again because the DVD sure didn't sound like that, at all.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by DanzG

I have a feeling even if Ken gave this a 4.5 or 5 review you would still call BS on it. I feel you are just bound to hate this set no matter what but of course... that is my opinion. lol

Hate on the set? I'm STILL buying it even with all the revisionist nonsense and unbelievable amount of DNR on TPM, and the fact that I don't even like the PT that much, because I love Star Wars as a whole that much.

I've seen screens of TPM that look extremely disheartening and we are all well-versed in the changes now so it's not like that's something I have to wait to see in the set itself to form an opinion on. I am basing my reaction to it on things that I've actually seen.

If Ken gives the PQ high marks, then I will know it looks good because he's a guy who doesn't shill and uses both proper equipment and educated judgment to assess the PQ of a film.

What any reviewer says about the content itself is irrelevant, because the bulk of this package has been out for as many as 34 years and whether or not the new stuff irks you or overjoys you comes down to personal preference.

Anyway, I'm not a "hater, just out to hate hate hate on this set because I hate and hating is fun", I'm just questioning some of the back-patting and high-fiving and "tell em Steve Dave!"s by people who clearly would love this set regardless of objective quality. They will argue to the ends of the earth against 15 different people who disagree with them, but the word of one Regular Guy who owns the set gets comments like "Wow that's reassuring! I guess people who canceled their preorder feel pretty dumb now that Random Guy On The Internet with Unknown Equipment and Credentials has said it looks awesome!" As if one random user you don't really know is the only barometer of quality that you should need or want.

[Rocklandsboy]

Originally Posted by DanzG

The first scene I am checking out is the asteroid fight scene between Jango and Obi-wan. I remember back in the theater how damn impressive those sonic booms sounded it just knocked the breath out of me just about it was very awesome I am hoping the blu-ray is going to sound like that once again because the DVD sure didn't sound like that, at all.

Yes I agree. I'm hoping that's significantly improved too!

[Tommymang]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

It isn't, in fact you wouldn't know it existed apart from the lack of any visible grain.

Having seen all six, I would expect the ratings for PQ/AQ to be:

TPM - 4/5 - The picture is a bit soft especially in glaring sun of Tatooine
AOTC - 4.5/5
ROTS - 5/5
ANH - 4.5/5
TESB - 4.5/5
ROTJ - 4.5/5

Despite some idiotic comments from people that clearly have NOT seen this is motion or on a really poor setup, these are reference quality discs, especailly for the OT.

The films have had some colour correction, but only for the positive. The blockade runner scene at the beginning of ANH is white again, the snow on Hoth is white again. The 'waxy' TPM is bull. It looks fine, but as above, a little soft in places which knocks it down a bit.

I am no expert, so fully expect these comments to be torn apart by the anally retentive Star Wars fanatics for whom perfection is the only thing that will reddem this set, but I don't watch films frame by frame on pause. I watch them the way they were made as films. They look stunning.

The extras discs however are lacking, poor and not really fitting of a Star Wars set IMHO. A couple of the documentaries from the DVD's such as the beginning and Empire of dreams would have changed that. The OT and PT bonus discs are a novelty and no more. Once I had watched the deleted scenes (which I doubt I will do again for quite some time) the rest was puff and boring.

Thanks for the effort you put in your posts Merlinpants. I really enjoyed reading them.

Now that's what I call an honest and objective Star Wars fan. You are clearly not one of those theatrical cry babies who haven't even seen the SW BDs yet ;-)

[Merlinpants]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Hate on the set? I'm STILL buying it even with all the revisionist nonsense and unbelievable amount of DNR on TPM, and the fact that I don't even like the PT that much, because I love Star Wars as a whole that much.

I've seen screens of TPM that look extremely disheartening and we are all well-versed in the changes now so it's not like that's something I have to wait to see in the set itself to form an opinion on. I am basing my reaction to it on things that I've actually seen.

If Ken gives the PQ high marks, then I will know it looks good because he's a guy who doesn't shill and uses both proper equipment and educated judgment to assess the PQ of a film.

What any reviewer says about the content itself is irrelevant, because the bulk of this package has been out for as many as 34 years and whether or not the new stuff irks you or overjoys you comes down to personal preference.

Anyway, I'm not a "hater, just out to hate hate hate on this set because I hate and hating is fun", I'm just questioning some of the back-patting and high-fiving and "tell em Steve Dave!"s by people who clearly would love this set regardless of objective quality. They will argue to the ends of the earth against 15 different people who disagree with them, but the word of one Regular Guy who owns the set gets comments like "Wow that's reassuring! I guess people who canceled their preorder feel pretty dumb now that Random Guy On The Internet with Unknown Equipment and Credentials has said it looks awesome!" As if one random user you don't really know is the only barometer of quality that you should need or want.

It's sort of just an extremist place to be, and I'm not a huge fan of extremism.

And the comments of someone without any agenda doesn't reassure you?

You can only please some of the people some of the time, but all of the people never.

I stand by my comments and have a reference set up. Boone is forcing anything on you, but you have always baited in nearly every post. Out.

[RD1973]

When I first heard about the new changes, I had a complete meltdown (almost identical to the Hitler video). I got so upset, I actually popped a blood vessel in my left eye. My eye has been red all week. Serenity now....serenity now...

Anyway, I gave some thought to why I got so upset and I realized something. I tend to consider the special edition/extended/unrated/director's cut of any film to be the DEFINITIVE version of that film. But this just isn't the case with Star Wars. The original theatrical versions always were and always will be the definitive versions. I guess I've been struggling to accept the bullshit changes over the years as the definitive vision, and this latest round just pushed me over the edge. I have VHS and DVD copies of the UOT and those will be my definitive versions from now on. The '97, '04, '11, etc. versions will just be goofy "what ifs."

I will be buying this set on Friday, mostly for the prequels and the extras. But going forward I will only be watching the UOT DVDs.

Spielberg has stated that he made CETK before he was a father and that the movie would end very differently if he made it today. But he has the sense to leave it alone because its a record of who he was at that moment in time. I just wish that Lucas understood that.

[DanzG]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

And the comments of someone without any agenda doesn't reassure you?

You can only please some of the people some of the time, but all of the people never.

I stand by my comments and have a reference set up. Boone is forcing anything on you, but you have always baited in nearly every post. Out.

Just ignore him, if he can't appreciate someone taking their time and energy into posting a review and accepting it for what it is then that is his problem. I for one along with many here really appreciate all the effort you have put into this, thanks again!

[koreyman]

Originally Posted by NYorker

Did Kubrik go back and make constant changes to 2001?
Did Coppola go back and make changes to The Godfather?
Did Spielberg make changes to Jaws, or Jurassic Park...?

No.

A film is not a software or Madden game that needs to be updated all the time...

There are lots of ways Gl could have kept it "palatable" for new generations. The fact that he continues to do what he does tells me that he's a businessman first and a filmmaker second. Because no filmmaker in their right mind would endlessly revise their creation - without at least offering the original to the fans who helped make the film what it is today.

Like I said
Fans With a false sense of entitlement. They do not belong to you . You Paid your money got your ticket or toy or whatever you bought. done deal he Owes you Nothing just drop it. let it go on 9-16 your UOT is not coming out and no amount of negativity from you or anyone can change it.

[Irrob]

Yea Merlinpants, ignore that El jay fella. Thanks much for your input. I believe you.

[RD1973]

Several people have asked about store exclusives, so here's what I've found:

1. Bestbuy: film cel with pre-order
2. Bestbuy: t-shirt with complete saga
3. Target: set of 8 lithographs
4. Walmart: Boba Fett poster
5. Foxconnect: ComicCon lithograph
6. UK exclusives: same film cel and t-shirt as Bestbuy
7. Canada exclusive: mini lightsabers to first 5 customers
8. Korean exclusive: AT-AT 3D puzzle thing

I'm in the US and I'm not too sure who's offering the UK, Canadian or Korean exclusives. Frankly, they're pretty crappy so I didn't research further.

[DanzG]

Originally Posted by RD1973

Several people have asked about store exclusives, so here's what I've found:

1. Bestbuy: film cel with pre-order
2. Bestbuy: t-shirt with complete saga
3. Target: set of 8 lithographs
4. Walmart: Boba Fett poster
5. Foxconnect: ComicCon lithograph
6. UK exclusives: same film cel and t-shirt as Bestbuy
7. Canada exclusive: mini lightsabers to first 5 customers
8. Korean exclusive: AT-AT 3D puzzle thing

I'm in the US and I'm not too sure who's offering the UK, Canadian or Korean exclusives. Frankly, they're pretty crappy so I didn't research further.

Thanks for the info, was wondering this myself but yeah... eh does not sound to interesting think I will just stick with my amazon order.

[NYorker]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

You couldn't be more wrong. Lucas is an artist because first and foremost he cares for the films. If he were a businessman first he would sell all the existing versions multiple times and seperately - like with Lord Of The Rings - and wouldn't make further changes to suck up to the consumers of his product.

It is often critizized that Lucas sits in his ivory tower and has lost connection to the fans. To me that is a good thing. It shows that he is an artist and not just a businessman. He wants to make the versions closest to his heart and with the most integrity and honesty possible. That I support all the way!

How come the fans suddenly think they know more about what Star Wars is than the man who created it and are entitled to talk down to Lucas and make demands?

a) he is selling the films multiple times in multiple formats - you can be pretty sure this isn't the last time SW is released

b) not a businessman? how about the deal he cut with Fox that gives him all merchandising rights....? (and that was, unless I'm mistaken, way back in '77). And no way you can compare this to LOTR because: 1) you can always get the theatrical versions and 2) from the start PJ announced their would there would be an extended edition.

c) If the fans would not flock to see the original SW, there would be no ESB, no ROTJ, no prequel trilogy and hundreds of merchandise and video games that would make GL the billionaire that he is today. Some consideration to those fans would be nice.

d) I don't think fans claimed they know more about film making or SW than GL, and they're certainly not talking down to Lucas - if anything, some fans, especially the more "veteran" ones, feel that they've been milked for their worth, and now it's time for a new generation to take care of. From the films' point of view, these fan know the story, the flow of it, the characters etc., for many years, they certainly question the motives behind any change he has (continues to do) to the films. Why didn't he add the "nooooo" and Ben's girlie scream in '97? in '04? he certainly could have. And I don't accept the answer that, well, "the prequels weren't made yet," because it doesn't make any sense now just as it wouldn't make any sense 7 or 14 years ago.

e) I think it says a lot about the loyalty and devotion of Star Wars fans everywhere who are willing to overlook the shortcomings of this set and buy it.

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

It isn't, in fact you wouldn't know it existed apart from the lack of any visible grain.

Having seen all six, I would expect the ratings for PQ/AQ to be:

TPM - 4/5 - The picture is a bit soft especially in glaring sun of Tatooine
AOTC - 4.5/5
ROTS - 5/5
ANH - 4.5/5
TESB - 4.5/5
ROTJ - 4.5/5

Despite some idiotic comments from people that clearly have NOT seen this is motion or on a really poor setup, these are reference quality discs, especailly for the OT.

The films have had some colour correction, but only for the positive. The blockade runner scene at the beginning of ANH is white again, the snow on Hoth is white again. The 'waxy' TPM is bull. It looks fine, but as above, a little soft in places which knocks it down a bit.

I am no expert, so fully expect these comments to be torn apart by the anally retentive Star Wars fanatics for whom perfection is the only thing that will reddem this set, but I don't watch films frame by frame on pause. I watch them the way they were made as films. They look stunning.

The extras discs however are lacking, poor and not really fitting of a Star Wars set IMHO. A couple of the documentaries from the DVD's such as the beginning and Empire of dreams would have changed that. The OT and PT bonus discs are a novelty and no more. Once I had watched the deleted scenes (which I doubt I will do again for quite some time) the rest was puff and boring.

That's wonderful, Merlinpants. Again, thank you so much. I've read your posts a lot and you're one of few that is very neutral, honest, and objective with your opinions. You have the blu-rays in your hands there's nothing to doubt you. Really appreciate your efforts.

[koreyman]

Originally Posted by NYorker

a) he is selling the films multiple times in multiple formats - you can be pretty sure this isn't the last time SW is released

b) not a businessman? how about the deal he cut with Fox that gives him all merchandising rights....? (and that was, unless I'm mistaken, way back in '77). And no way you can compare this to LOTR because: 1) you can always get the theatrical versions and 2) from the start PJ announced their would there would be an extended edition.

c) If the fans would not flock to see the original SW, there would be no ESB, no ROTJ, no prequel trilogy and hundreds of merchandise and video games that would make GL the billionaire that he is today. Some consideration to those fans would be nice.

d) I don't think fans claimed they know more about film making or SW than GL, and they're certainly not talking down to Lucas - if anything, some fans, especially the more "veteran" ones, feel that they've been milked for their worth, and now it's time for a new generation to take care of. From the films' point of view, these fan know the story, the flow of it, the characters etc., for many years, they certainly question the motives behind any change he has (continues to do) to the films. Why didn't he add the "nooooo" and Ben's girlie scream in '97? in '04? he certainly could have. And I don't accept the answer that, well, "the prequels weren't made yet," because it doesn't make any sense now just as it wouldn't make any sense 7 or 14 years ago.

e) I think it says a lot about the loyalty and devotion of Star Wars fans everywhere who are willing to overlook the shortcomings of this set and buy it.

to answer your points
a) It is what companies do no matter who they are
b) GL is who made Movie tie in Products a major "cash cow" untill that time movie licensing was not worth a dime fox basically gave it to him because they didn't care BTW he asked for it for the ability to promote the film . no one could predict that a minor toy company (KENNER) would start a craze with toys .
c) you got your consideration you saw the movies and have your products you paid for. Or did you just give GL money for no reason

d) if you know the films, the changes are mainly minor and the story arc hasn't changed sence the very early 80's

e)short comings like the NO line ? or subjective reviews by people wanting to complain what is funny is what some call loyalty because what normally happens is people whined for 15 years for a new Star Wars movie, and then *****ed when they got it, and then whined for 10 years about the original trilogy on DVD, and then *****ed when they got it, so I have no doubt that those same people will hate something about this release and will continue whining until Lucas releases the UOT on blu-ray and then they'll complain about that

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by NYorker

a) he is selling the films multiple times in multiple formats - you can be pretty sure this isn't the last time SW is released

b) not a businessman? how about the deal he cut with Fox that gives him all merchandising rights....? (and that was, unless I'm mistaken, way back in '77). And no way you can compare this to LOTR because: 1) you can always get the theatrical versions and 2) from the start PJ announced their would there would be an extended edition.

c) If the fans would not flock to see the original SW, there would be no ESB, no ROTJ, no prequel trilogy and hundreds of merchandise and video games that would make GL the billionaire that he is today. Some consideration to those fans would be nice.

d) I don't think fans claimed they know more about film making or SW than GL, and they're certainly not talking down to Lucas - if anything, some fans, especially the more "veteran" ones, feel that they've been milked for their worth, and now it's time for a new generation to take care of. From the films' point of view, these fan know the story, the flow of it, the characters etc., for many years, they certainly question the motives behind any change he has (continues to do) to the films. Why didn't he add the "nooooo" and Ben's girlie scream in '97? in '04? he certainly could have. And I don't accept the answer that, well, "the prequels weren't made yet," because it doesn't make any sense now just as it wouldn't make any sense 7 or 14 years ago.

e) I think it says a lot about the loyalty and devotion of Star Wars fans everywhere who are willing to overlook the shortcomings of this set and buy it.

a) STAR WARS has been released not that many times considering the possibilities to do so. It's been released once on DVD and Blu. I don't even know how many times I have bought LotR til this day. Franchises like X-Men or Harry Potter release new Box-Sets and Special Editions with each new incarnation.

b) I didn't say he is NOT a businessman. He has learned the tricks of the trade to earn his freedom as a filmmaker.

c) You could argue like that. It's a point of you... To me personally Lucas would lose integrity if he would release sets on fan-demand. I wouldn't be interested in that at all. I want versions that are closest to his sensibilities. I have bought countless Marvel-Comics over the years. That doesn't entitle me to demand any changes to Iron-Man, Thor or Captain America. We are not shareholders of the franchise.

d) That's "the people vs george lucas" again. It's like a trial where the fans try to prove him wrong or find evidence against him. There were technical reasons why he couldn't realize certain things in the 80s but mainly it's him reviewing the movies frequently over the years and finding small things to optimize. What's so wrog about that?

e) ALLEGED shortcomings! Many fans are working really hard to destroy the movie experience for themselves. This was most apparent with the "NOOO" change. Most fans rejected the thing without even seeing it in context. The films are so full of wonderful scenes and wisdom and metaphor. How can an addition that only adds depth produce such a unreasonable backlash.

[iamsometal]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

And the comments of someone without any agenda doesn't reassure you?

You can only please some of the people some of the time, but all of the people never.

I stand by my comments and have a reference set up. Boone is forcing anything on you, but you have always baited in nearly every post. Out.

If your display wasn't professionally calibrated, don't claim you have a reference set up. THAT is BS. It may be reference to you, and that's fine, but don't claim reference to others when you've made it clear you've only tweaked the display yourself. What hardware/software did you use to calibrate the set yourself? CalMan? A Colorimeter?

[Merlinpants]

Originally Posted by iamsometal

If your display wasn't professionally calibrated, don't claim you have a reference set up. THAT is BS. It may be reference to you, and that's fine, but don't claim reference to others when you've made it clear you've only tweaked the display yourself. What hardware/software did you use to calibrate the set yourself? CalMan? A Colorimeter?

Damn people are pedantic. I benefit from the THX calibration.

If you want to be pedantic (clearly you do) I have a home reference Set up that anyone can achieve, so I am viewing the film the way 99% of the viewing public will. Professional reviews are not achievable at home, so does that mean mine is more useful? Only you will be able to tell when you see it for yourself.

Thanks for the attack. Try to be helpful and the doom and gloom crowd pile in again. That is what has made this thread so disappointing for so long.