Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Beast

Don't you mean mid-2000's CGI? And it still looks eons better than shoddy puppets.

The Special Editions were done in 1997, and while some of the CGI was redone for the 2004 release (i.e. Jabba the Hutt's appearance in Episode IV) in addiiton to some other changes being made , most of it (the CGI) wasn't as far as I can tell. While I haven't gone out of my way to do a side by side comparison between the 1997 version and the 2004 version, I'm pretty sure the animation for that scene in ROTJ was the same, and would therefore be 90's CGI.

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Now I can't wait for the discussion about how bad the PQ & AQ is on the Blu-ray release next year also That should be epic as well.

Well, if he uses the exact same transfer (video, audio, and all) that was used for the 2004 DVDs, then the PQ and AQ won't be all that great. This is not in terms of resolution, nor is it because the additions/changes to the movies in '97 and then again in '04, but because of other technical issues done with remastering and color timing the video and remixing the audio that occurred and were somehow overlooked:

http://savestarwars.com/specialeditionfail.html

[bandit29]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

I agree with you Pat!

I think they should redo the Obi Wan-Vader fight in ANH using quicker editing or CGI versions in some shots (the CGI Arnold in TS looks great, so I am confident they could pull this off successfully now).

Ugh. That is one of the worst things about Star Wars I have ever read...Hell just change everything to CG that needs improving ...Were you born in 1992? Sure the duel is the worst in terms of actual fighting..but unlike some of the mindless duels from the PT, it actually means something to the story.

The duel between Luke & Vader in ESB is still the best. Full of the intensity and emotion. Their duel in ROTJ is a close second. I really liked the duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin from EP III...even though it probably didn't need to be as long. The fight between Jinn/Obi-wan and Maul turned into an aerobics class...and still is the best thing about TPM...

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

The Special Editions were done in 1997, and while some of the CGI was redone for the 2004 release (i.e. Jabba the Hutt's appearance in Episode IV) in addiiton to some other changes being made , most of it (the CGI) wasn't as far as I can tell. While I haven't gone out of my way to do a side by side comparison between the 1997 version and the 2004 version, I'm pretty sure the animation for that scene in ROTJ was the same, and would therefore be 90's CGI.

Nope. The Jedi Rocks scene got a makeover for the DVD as well.

And again, still looks better than the shoddy Sy Snootles puppet that didn't even work.

Jabba in RotJ worked, that's why he wasn't replaced. Much like a lot of elements in Jabba's Palace that didn't need a makeover and were left alone. However Sy sucked, and was rightly replaced. Plus we got a much better musical number, since the scene was no longer restrained by a terrible puppet.

[MCT]

yeah, and now it's restrained by a terrible CGI alien. We've come full circle. Harmless puppets that play the background > obnoxious dog monsters that scream in my face.

[jedilips]

Originally Posted by Beast

Plus we got a much better musical number, since the scene was no longer restrained by a terrible puppet.

What the?

[Beast]

Originally Posted by MCT

yeah, and now it's restrained by a terrible CGI alien. We've come full circle. Harmless puppets that play the background > obnoxious dog monsters that scream in my face.

Play the background?

Did you ever even see Return of the Jedi? Cause the Lapti Nek scene was a pretty major scene.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by jedilips

What the?

Go watch the old documentaries about Return Of The Jedi.

They were restrained in what they could offer cause Sy Snootles didn't work as a puppet.

One of the biggest problems being her mouth, which could only barely open and close.

Plus was attached by a somewhat obvious wire to her microphone. Which was another problem.

[Grand Bob]

Concerning the light-saber duels, I don't think it's really fair to directly compare the OT duels to the prequels. In the OT, light sabers were a new thing, and CG was relatively primitive. When I saw the original Star Wars movie on its opening weekend in 1977, I thought the sabers were cool, and realized there was only so much that Alec Guiness was physically going to be able to do against Vader. The OT stories were not as "light-saber centric" - they were side curiosities that added to uniqueness of the films, compared to heavy dependence on duels in the prequels. With a 20-year learning curve and advances in technology, the prequels had to considerably up the ante. It doesn't really make any sense to compare the light-saber wielding ability of the martial arts master that played Darth Maul to Guiness, any more than it makes sense to compare their acting capabilities. Although I like all six of the movies, each of the trilogies has their own particular strengths. I prefer the OT's for their "overall enjoyment factor" compared to the fight-intensive prequels and their superior saber duels.

[MCT]

I get the feeling some of these guys in here would have zero problem replacing the animatronic Jaws with a CGI one. Or "revisualizing" Indy's classic scene where he's running from the giant boulder...maybe have him doing all kinds of acrobatic flips while avoiding a monstrous ancient monkey instead. Old = bad.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by MCT

I get the feeling some of these guys in here would have zero problem replacing the animatronic Jaws with a CGI one. Or "revisualizing" Indy's classic scene where he's running from the giant boulder...maybe have him doing all kinds of acrobatic flips while avoiding a monstrous ancient monkey instead. Old = bad.

Nope. Because Jaws worked for what it was required to do.

Much like Jabba did. Much like Droopy McCool and Max Rebo did.

Much like pretty much every puppet did in Jabba's Palace. Except for Sy Snootles.

And she was fixed for the SE. Much like how the terrible Wampa was as well.

[Gaius Marius]

I think the Darth Maul fight is the best choreographed in all six movies, and it is my favorite. Just love the scene where Maul appears, Duel of the Fates starts, and Qui Gonn says "We'll handle this"

I always felt that the Anakin/Obi-wan was too "gimicky" with all of the stuff flying around and the moving platforms over lava. It took away the emotion from what should have been the most emotional fight in the saga.

Definately agree, though, that the ANH fight is the weakest. Loved the Empire and Jedi fights, though. I attribute the roughness of those fights being Luke's inexperience and Vader just toying with him.

[atrocity77]

The biggest problem with the argument between Beast and the others is that it's going like this:

User 1: The CGI aliens in Jabba's Palace looked terrible and would have been better off with less prominence.
Beast: No, that's how George Lucas had initially wanted it.

No one is arguing what intentions Lucas had when he initially made these movies. Just because he initially had wanted to do something does NOT make it a good idea. Lots of filmmakers make mistakes and George Lucas is not infallible. Anyways, this argument is worthless since we already know stubborn George isn't going to do the right thing and include both versions of the films like he should.

So on that note, I really hope they fix the glaring problems from the 2004 DVD release. Luke's green lightsaber in ANH... wtf? and all the delightful matte boxes around the TIE fighters. Also, since they are keeping the terrible "Greedo shoots first" and the scene between Han and Jabba in ANH, I really hope they work on those. As is, it looks completely ridiculous how Han dodges the blaster shot and walks over Jabba's tail. If he wants this awful version in the film hopefully he can at least make it look like they spent more than $5 working on it.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Beast

Nope. Because Jaws worked for what it was required to do.

Much like Jabba did. Much like Droopy McCool and Max Rebo did.

Much like pretty much every puppet did in Jabba's Palace. Except for Sy Snootles.

And she was fixed for the SE. Much like how the terrible Wampa was as well.

I would have to say the Wampa monster in the SE was my favorite change in all three movies. That was a really cool enhancement and worked really well with the scene as you never got to really see it before.

[bandit29]

Originally Posted by Gaius Marius

I always felt that the Anakin/Obi-wan was too "gimicky" with all of the stuff flying around and the moving platforms over lava. It took away the emotion from what should have been the most emotional fight in the saga.

.

Even though I like the duel overall, that's when it goes downhill. The floating platforms on the lava was overkill.

[MCT]

the Wampa scene is a perfect example of that bull-in-a-china-shop mentality Lucas has....did we really NEED to see all those extra shots of the Wampa eating some lunch before getting around to Luke? Wasn't it much more suspenseful knowing Luke was in danger, but all we could hear was the moaning sounds the creature made, and the slow buildup to it making its way towards him while he tried to break free? And then after Luke cuts his arm off, we get an extra scene of it screaming in horror....watching the dismembered limb plop lifelessly to the ground in the original version was enough. There was no need for all that extra stuff.

[Chordata]

I love Star Wars as a whole, but as a fan for the last 30+ years, I have minor gripes here and there. I like the OT much more than the PT. I don't care about Han shooting first. I don't like the new Ewok song. I think TPM was a waste of time.

On the one hand, I love whatever they'll give me to feed my Star Wars cravings. I'll take special editions, scene changes, prequels, sequels, animated shows, etc.

On the other hand, I wish he'd leave the originals as is.

That said, I'll buy whatever is released first. If it's the altered OTs, fine. I'll watch them and own them and be happy. If it's the unaltered OTs, fine. I'll watch them and remember the alterations for all the chaos they created.

But I cannot understand the animosity and "holier than thou" attitude of some people in this thread. These are movies. We're just fans.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Beast

Play the background?

Did you ever even see Return of the Jedi? Cause the Lapti Nek scene was a pretty major scene.

It always seemed to me like they were playing in the background in the original version. They may not have been the intent, but it really didn't seem at all like a "major scene" to me.

In general they had the song playing, with the images on screen taking a few shots of the band along with several other shots showing the "population" hanging around Jabba's palace. But it never really seemed to me like the band or the song was supposed to be the main focus. Yes, they were meant to be noticed, but not the end all/be all of that scene. I just always took it as a bunch of shots around the palace meant to give the viewer a sense of the 'atmosphere' of it all.

But I think that is due largely because of the technical problems that they had getting the Sy puppet working. If the puppet had worked better, the scene probably would have been filmed different with more focus being on the band and the music.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by MCT

the Wampa scene is a perfect example of that bull-in-a-china-shop mentality Lucas has....did we really NEED to see all those extra shots of the Wampa eating some lunch before getting around to Luke? Wasn't it much more suspenseful knowing Luke was in danger, but all we could hear was the moaning sounds the creature made, and the slow buildup to it making its way towards him while he tried to break free? And then after Luke cuts his arm off, we get an extra scene of it screaming in horror....watching the dismembered limb plop lifelessly to the ground in the original version was enough. There was no need for all that extra stuff.

Considering the shots of the original Wampa were downplayed and cut entirely originally from Empire Strikes Back chiefly because of the fact that the costume didn't work at all.... yes. Finally we got to actually see the creature, rather than lose it due to the craptastic costume. So yes, another change for the better.

[MCT]

Beast, is there anything you DON'T like about Star Wars? lol

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

I love Star Wars as a whole, but as a fan for the last 30+ years, I have minor gripes here and there. I like the OT much more than the PT. I don't care about Han shooting first. I don't like the new Ewok song. I think TPM was a waste of time.

On the one hand, I love whatever they'll give me to feed my Star Wars cravings. I'll take special editions, scene changes, prequels, sequels, animated shows, etc.

On the other hand, I wish he'd leave the originals as is.

That said, I'll buy whatever is released first. If it's the altered OTs, fine. I'll watch them and own them and be happy. If it's the unaltered OTs, fine. I'll watch them and remember the alterations for all the chaos they created.

But I cannot understand the animosity and "holier than thou" attitude of some people in this thread. These are movies. We're just fans.

That pretty much sums it up for me, with the exception of TPM. I thought Liam Neeson's portrayal of Qui-Gon represented the quintessimal Jedi, and I also liked the inclusion of the Darth Maul character.