Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[retablo]

George Lucas, the hypocrite, giving a statement to Congress in 1988:

People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society.

The preservation of our cultural heritage may not seem to be as politically sensitive an issue as “when life begins” or “when it should be appropriately terminated,” but it is important because it goes to the heart of what sets mankind apart. Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavor. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.

These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tomorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with “fresher faces,” or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor’s lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new “original” negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires. The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely diligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control. In order to reconstruct old negatives, many archivists have had to go to Eastern bloc countries where American films have been better preserved.

In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.

There is nothing to stop American films, records, books, and paintings from being sold to a foreign entity or egotistical gangsters and having them change our cultural heritage to suit their personal taste.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by retablo

George Lucas, the hypocrite, giving a statement to Congress in 1988:

And again someone trots that out. You realize it was about people OTHER than the Creators changing films, right?

It's about people buying the rights to films, such as Ted Turner, and doing whatever they want with them.

Actually taking two seconds to look at the context of such things would save you a lot of time.

[dookiex]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

It's odd, The Phantom Menace is easily the worst-looking of the bunch, even though it released in 1999.

At least Empire looks fantastic.

It's not even the prints fault. You can tell that they de-noised the heck out of it, some sharpening that gives it a bit of a halo effect in some parts, overall really soft image, very digital looking even though it's shot on film. Terrible.

[olivehead]

Originally Posted by DanzG

I was watching Return of Jedi last night with my girlfriend and her parents and that is what my GF's parents said. "Why is Luke not scratching his head and saying, WTF is that guy?" lmfao

so live the good and pure life and you get to join the force as a 75-year-old dude or 900-year-old yoda, but turn to the dark side, cut off your kids hand, torture your daughter, and kill a few billion people, then say "sorry" and you get to be 21 again. what a ripoff.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Cool story bro.
A guy against the change says that people he knows are against the change. Wow.

Meanwhile, the reaction in "reality" else is zip. Nobody comments on the change, many don't realize there ever was a change. On the internet, most people had stopped arguing about it six years ago.

Where is "reality"?

I'd love to hear about a huge cross-section of Star Wars fans who didn't comment on the change and didn't realize there ever was a change.

Odd how this "reality" place is always some obtuse, far-off land in which everyone is too cool and busy to notice changes to their favorite pieces of art, and only a scant few people get news from "reality" and share it with us, as if anyone on the opposing viewpoint is not even in touch with "reality" enough to get the memo that "everyone else" so clearly received.

"Out there in the real world nobody even cares about Star Wars". Like we live in the Matrix or something, and only a few occultist nerds are fringe enough to hear of this "Star Wars" malarkey.

[ariakon]

I may get slaughtered for this statement, but I actually kind of liked the "No, nooo!" in Jedi. It wasn't as goofy as portrayed on the internet (surprise, surprise). It in no way distracted me the way Greedo's shot did.

On another level, I still love Episode 2. Ray Bradbury once said that a mediocre movie with a terrific ending is a terrific movie. I don't think it's terrific, but I do think it's good. The love scenes are awkward, the dialogue is overly formal, and c3po's jokes are horrendous, yet everytime I hear Yoda say "begun, the Clone War has" and the music swells into the imperial march and then shifts to that gorgeous love theme with the equally beautiful wedding scene, it gets me every time! There are plenty of valid criticisms to level at George Lucas, but the bastard knows how to end a movie. If only Stephen King could learn the same with his books.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by dookiex

It's not even the prints fault. You can tell that they de-noised the heck out of it, some sharpening that gives it a bit of a halo effect in some parts, overall really soft image, very digital looking even though it's shot on film. Terrible.

Oh I know. It's the most DNR'd mess I've seen since the Ultimate Edition of Predator, and that's no hyperbole. I couldn't make out pores, hairs, fabric textures. I was squinting and trying to see detail that was clearly smothered. Pretty sad. AOTC looks better, Sith looks much better, but I was more impressed with A New Hope and Empire for being 30+ years old and exhibiting way more fine detail and natural colors than any of the prequels.

Empire is my favorite Star Wars flick and one of my top 10 or top 20 films of all time, so I'm glad not only was it the least altered and tinkered with, but it seems to have gotten the best treatment in terms of PQ and AQ.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Cool story bro.
A guy against the change says that people he knows are against the change. Wow.

Meanwhile, the reaction in "reality" else is zip. Nobody comments on the change, many don't realize there ever was a change. On the internet, most people had stopped arguing about it six years ago.

He could of easily had a picture of his dad from when he was a teenager at the farm.

No more of a headscratcher than knowing who he was as an adult.

Additionaly, he has a connection to his father via the force, so he would be able to sense him without seeing him no matter what he looked like.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Beast

And again someone trots that out. You realize it was about people OTHER than the Creators changing films, right?

It's about people buying the rights to films, such as Ted Turner, and doing whatever they want with them.

Actually taking two seconds to look at the context of such things would save you a lot of time.

So quick to defend, as if you were hurt personally!

Do you even know the definition of hypocrite? Even if he WAS talking about other people, to turn around and do it yourself IS the very definition. Sorry, but you're little movie God isn't perfect. And it makes him laughable.

[dookiex]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Oh I know. It's the most DNR'd mess I've seen since the Ultimate Edition of Predator, and that's no hyperbole. I couldn't make out pores, hairs, fabric textures. I was squinting and trying to see detail that was clearly smothered. Pretty sad. AOTC looks better, Sith looks much better, but I was more impressed with A New Hope and Empire for being 30+ years old and exhibiting way more fine detail and natural colors than any of the prequels.

Empire is my favorite Star Wars flick and one of my top 10 or top 20 films of all time, so I'm glad not only was it the least altered and tinkered with, but it seems to have gotten the best treatment in terms of PQ and AQ.

Heh, forget about seeing pores and fabric detail, I just couldn't stand the halo'ing. That made me want to burn the disc right there and then.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by Beast

I bought the sets with the bonus discs that have the old LD encodes. Watched them once, and didn't feel any interest in watching those retired versions again.

You're telling me that had nothing to do with the fact it was an unrestored LD encode with crap 192kbps 2.0 audio and 4:3 picture? I'd be hard pressed to watch them too (though being me I probably still would) if I had a widescreen tv and great sound system and a 16:9 5.1 DD disc was sitting next to it.

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Where is "reality"?

I'd love to hear about a huge cross-section of Star Wars fans who didn't comment on the change and didn't realize there ever was a change.

Odd how this "reality" place is always some obtuse, far-off land in which everyone is too cool and busy to notice changes to their favorite pieces of art, and only a scant few people get news from "reality" and share it with us, as if anyone on the opposing viewpoint is not even in touch with "reality" enough to get the memo that "everyone else" so clearly received.

"Out there in the real world nobody even cares about Star Wars". Like we live in the Matrix or something, and only a few occultist nerds are fringe enough to hear of this "Star Wars" malarkey.

My nephew, who is now 10, doesn't know about the changes. I think you're referring to "fans" who grew up with the OT. But the "reality" is there are a lot of new "fans" who are growing up with the Clone Wars animated show and the PT. I'm willing to bet if I showed him how they changed Shaw to Hayden, he either wouldn't care or would prefer seeing the Anakin (Hayden) he has been seeing for the past 5 years.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Beast

And again someone trots that out. You realize it was about people OTHER than the Creators changing films, right?

It's about people buying the rights to films, such as Ted Turner, and doing whatever they want with them.

Actually taking two seconds to look at the context of such things would save you a lot of time.

That is part of it. And Lucas, in that speech, did refer to the only people who should be allowed to make changes to a movie being the original director and main writers (and that after any of them have died, the films should be left alone... oops, guess he forgot about that bit when he start messing around with ROTJ).

Still, none the less, the bit about preservation of culture and the public interest is very important and notable, and exists regardless of who is making changes to a movie. So, there is some hypocracy there on his part by not at least making the UOT available in addition to his updated versions.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by retablo

So quick to defend, as if you were hurt personally!

Do you even know the definition of hypocrite? Even if he WAS talking about other people, to turn around and do it yourself IS the very definition. Sorry, but you're little movie God isn't perfect. And it makes him laughable.

Sigh.

Again: he was making the point films should not be changed by people who had nothing to do with their creation.

"Laughable" is trying to twist his words into something "hypocritical" just because YOU don't like the changes he made to his creation.

[MrJoeKalel]

Originally Posted by retablo

George Lucas, the hypocrite, giving a statement to Congress in 1988:

[Show spoiler]
[I]People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society.

The preservation of our cultural heritage may not seem to be as politically sensitive an issue as “when life begins” or “when it should be appropriately terminated,” but it is important because it goes to the heart of what sets mankind apart. Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavor. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.

These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tomorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with “fresher faces,” or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor’s lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new “original” negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires. The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely diligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control. In order to reconstruct old negatives, many archivists have had to go to Eastern bloc countries where American films have been better preserved.

In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.

There is nothing to stop American films, records, books, and paintings from being sold to a foreign entity or egotistical gangsters and having them change our cultural heritage to suit their personal taste.[/I

]

Originally Posted by Beast

And again someone trots that out. You realize it was about people OTHER than the Creators changing films, right?

[Show spoiler]
It's about people buying the rights to films, such as Ted Turner, and doing whatever they want with them.
Actually taking two seconds to look at the context of such things would save you a lot of time.

This has been discussed a hundred times before, does anybody actually read this thread's posts??

Originally Posted by El_Jay

[Show spoiler]Where is "reality"?

I'd love to hear about a huge cross-section of Star Wars fans who didn't comment on the change and didn't realize there ever was a change.

Odd how this "reality" place is always some obtuse, far-off land in which everyone is too cool and busy to notice changes to their favorite pieces of art, and only a scant few people get news from "reality" and share it with us, as if anyone on the opposing viewpoint is not even in touch with "reality" enough to get the memo that "everyone else" so clearly received.

"Out there in the real world nobody even cares about Star Wars". Like we live in the Matrix or something, and only a few occultist nerds are fringe enough to hear of this "Star Wars" malarkey.

Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai

He could of easily had a picture of his dad from when he was a teenager at the farm.

No more of a headscratcher than knowing who he was as an adult.

Additionaly, he has a connection to his father via the force, so he would be able to sense him without seeing him no matter what he looked like.

It's funny how people over scrutinize these movies as is they were supposed to be taken as 'fact' or 'reality'. Even if Luke didn't have a picture of him (I'm sure Aunt Beru could've had one), he HAS a connection with the force. Why do people try so hard to find faults in films? One thing is criticizing a movie and pointing out its major flaws (that truly affect the movie), and another is nitpicking with things that nobody cares. Seriously.

[KrugStillo]

Just wondering if Chewbacca let out the Tarzan yell in the original Jedi. I know the wookies do it in Sith (I think) but wondering if that was a new change or just something I never noticed.

[beckmen]

Originally Posted by olivehead

so live the good and pure life and you get to join the force as a 75-year-old dude or 900-year-old yoda, but turn to the dark side, cut off your kids hand, torture your daughter, and kill a few billion people, then say "sorry" and you get to be 21 again. what a ripoff.

Sounds familiar to me, where religion is concerned.

Originally Posted by dookiex

I wouldn't recommend anybody to just settle on crappy speakers though. Yes, having physical surround speakers will give you the spatial effect but when you are using crappy speakers, a LOT of the details in the soundtrack gets lost. You're basically binning a substantial amount of the audio.

But if you are on a budget, you can start with something simple and slowly upgrade components over time.

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Oh I know. It's the most DNR'd mess I've seen since the Ultimate Edition of Predator, and that's no hyperbole.

Wow. Maybe you should check out...I don't know; the movie your avatar is from; on Blu-ray.

And on a random note: Did Luke go by the name 'Skywalker' on Tatooine? I can't recall any specific proof of that. Like maybe he was named Lars, but Owen told him his real heritage. Once the Lars family was dead and he was in space, he started using the name 'Skywalker'.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Hatter

You're telling me that had nothing to do with the fact it was an unrestored LD encode with crap 192kbps 2.0 audio and 4:3 picture? I'd be hard pressed to watch them too (though being me I probably still would) if I had a widescreen tv and great sound system and a 16:9 5.1 DD disc was sitting next to it.

Nope. I just don't enjoy those versions all that much. Sure, there are aspects I like of those older versions better. But not enough to sit through them. Heck, back in the days of LD I did the same thing. The '97 SE LD Boxset were my preferred versions until the DVDs were released.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

My nephew, who is now 10, doesn't know about the changes. I think you're referring to "fans" who grew up with the OT. But the "reality" is there are a lot of new "fans" who are growing up with the Clone Wars animated show and the PT. I'm willing to bet if I showed him how they changed Shaw to Hayden, he either wouldn't care or would prefer seeing the Anakin (Hayden) he has been seeing for the past 5 years.

True enough.

And there are fans who were kids about a decade or so ago (i.e. people who are now in their late teens/early 20s) who have pretty much grown up with the altered versions and the PT, who have no real attachment to the UOT.

But, being that they have grown up with those versions, now some of them aren't thrilled with the newer changes such as the "Noooo" in ROTJ (there were some people earlier in this thread who expressed this).

Assuming the plans for the 3D releases go off without a hitch and are released as intended, starting next year (2012) with TPM and releasing each movie 1 per year in order of episodes 1-6, this means that the OT movies will be released in theaters from 2015 to 2017. By that your newphew will be in his teens and probably nostalgic to some extent for these movies. Assuming further changes occur to the films for the 3D release (which I think is highly probable), it's very much possible that your nephew and/or many other of his generation, will notice some new changes that they won't like.

By continuing to tinker with these films rather than finally just "finishing" them and definitively deciding to then leave them as is, he's just going to cause more rifts in the fandom than what already exist.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by KrugStillo

Just wondering if Chewbacca let out the Tarzan yell in the original Jedi. I know the wookies do it in Sith (I think) but wondering if that was a new change or just something I never noticed.

It was always there.