Indeed. The Avatar treatment was made in 1994. He had projected the movie to be in production starting in 1997 but scrapped it after realizing the tech wasn't there yet. Meanwhile George said lets go. Think about if he waited. Not only would the tech have been there, perhaps his script would have been refined too.
But then we wouldn't have had Cameron as a director. I think it's on record that he went into film making after seeing Star Wars. I would never have had my favourites, The Terminator, The Abyss, and Titanic.
There's nothing that needs changed about what Obi-Wan tells Luke about his Dad in ANH.
Considering he was lying about him... or to use Obi-Wan's copout offering a "Different point of view".
The dialogue that implies that Owen had more of a relationship with Anakin doesn't line up. And Bearu's comment about Luke having too much of his father in him (as if she's saying it in a positive light) doesn't match up either considering that the only time that they ever met Anakin was when he showed up angry looking for his mother, and left angry just after he slaughters a bunch of sand people when trying to rescue his mother, who dies in his arms. Not that his anger isn't justified to a certain extent, but the point is that it's not exactly like there was any kind of basis for a positive view of Anakin or and real relationship with Owen and Bearu at all.
I really don't necessarily want the dialogue changed since it would be another stupid change needing to be done with the OT to line up with the PT when the PT simply should have been made in a manner where it doesn't contradict the OT in the first place.
Last edited by Dynamo of Eternia; 09-26-2011 at 07:56 PM.
In the 80s people were willing to be amazed by filmmakers. In the age of the internet, youtube and film-software on every PC EVERYBODY is smarter than any filmmaker. The Digital Characters in TPM in'99 were groundbreaking - but are largely despised or ignored.
Rise of the Planet of the Apes totally blew me away. The CGI in LOTR holds up really well. The special FX in Jurassic Park actually hold up very well for the mid-nineties.
I wasn't jaded or indifferent watching ROTPOTA because of Youtube or Google or preservatives in the vegetables or any of that nonsense.
The simple fact is that the CGI in TPM is unbelievably dated. Everything looks and moves very unrealistically and doesn't appear to have any real depth or occupy actual space in the scenery.
Of course he's a creator which is why he works in the field he does, but of necessity is in charge of his own business and is making those decisions. You can be both. You must be both if you're going to survive in this kind of business.
Trying to find fault with his business model or use of technology strikes me as misplaced venom towards disappointment with The Prequels and Special Editions. Forgive me, if that's not the case, but I don't necessarily agree that he's bitter and don't know how you can make that call. You may dislike The Prequels and you have every right, to, but these solemn pronouncements of how universally derided they are, so it's fact that they are bad is simply not the case straight across the board.
And I'm not asking for anybody to be politically correct or careful in their opinions at all, just that they be fully formed before they're expressed.
I'm speaking from the standpoint of film preservation and a genuine love of his OT. I would love to see a 4k version of those things and I would love to see them preserved. I think his stubborn ego will prevent this.
Rise of the Planet of the Apes totally blew me away. The CGI in LOTR holds up really well. The special FX in Jurassic Park actually hold up very well for the mid-nineties.
I wasn't jaded or indifferent watching ROTPOTA because of Youtube or Google or preservatives in the vegetables or any of that nonsense.
The simple fact is that the CGI in TPM is unbelievably dated. Everything looks and moves very unrealistically and doesn't appear to have any real depth or occupy actual space in the scenery.
You forgot to mention Blade Runner. That thing STILL holds up even viewed today. I'm shocked at how it still looks current.
The dialogue that implies that Owen had more of a relationship with Anakin doesn't line up. And Bearu's comment about Luke having too much of his father in him (as if she's saying it in a positive light) doesn't match up either considering that the only time that they ever met Anakin was when he showed up angry looking for his mother, and left angry just after he slaughters a bunch of sand people when trying to rescue his mother, who dies in his arms. Not that his anger isn't justified to a certain extent, but the point is that it's not exactly like there was any kind of basis for a positive view of Anakin or and real relationship with Owen and Bearu at all.
I really don't necessarily want the dialogue changed since it would be another stupid change needing to be done with the OT to line up with the PT when the PT simply should have been made in a manner where it doesn't contradic the OT in the first place.
It doesn't need to be changed though.
Luke knew that Owen had issues with Anakin, since he didn't want to discuss him whenever he was brought up.
Obi-Wan knew this as well, including the lie that Anakin was supposedly a navigator on a Spice Freighter.
That's why he tells Luke what he does, to explain why Owen has this resentment against Anakin. It's just a part of the larger lie.
Beru and Owen's private comments about Luke's father also line up with what we know of Anakin from the films. Including becoming Vader.
Beru: "Luke's just not a farmer Owen. He's got too much of his father in him." - Aka, a hunger for something more. Dreams of Adventure.
Owen: "That's what I'm afraid of." - Because if Anakin wouldn't have been like that none of what occured would have happened.
He's clearly afraid that Luke might follow the same destructive path that Anakin did, if he lets him go. Or even end up just like Anakin.
And while neither of them knew Anakin personally very long, they heard a lot about him from Shmi. As Owen even notes in AotCs.
But then we wouldn't have had Cameron as a director. I think it's on record that he went into film making after seeing Star Wars. I would never have had my favourites, The Terminator, The Abyss, and Titanic.
Waited to do the sequels I mean. I love the effects done by ILM for Star Wars OT and Star Trek.
You forgot to mention Blade Runner. That thing STILL holds up even viewed today. I'm shocked at how it still looks current.
Or 2001, for that matter.
That stuff all holds up well because they used models that have actual 3-dimensional depth, not a decent representation of it from 1999 when CGI was really still just developing.
Now, you look at stuff like "Rango", the recent "Christmas Carol", "Rise of the Planet of the Apes", and it's clear that special FX have reached a point that they can do pretty much anything. I'm not going to make any stupid predictions like "CGI will never get better!" but really I think it's about as good as it needs to get right now to be in a movie and not be out of place or distracting to the viewer.
If they had waited 10 years and released TPM in 2009, I think the CGI would have had a long life ahead of it.
Finally saw ESB! I was a bit disappointed by most of the Hoth scenes's PQ, but the rest of the movie looked great! Sound was great as always.
One thing that I realized in the movie though...Vader knows that Luke's last name is Skywalker before Sidious tells him. We definitely know this by him saying that the Rebels were in Hoth, and something along the lines of "Skywalker is definitely with them."
Now Sidious goes by revealing Luke's relation to Vader by saying, "I have no doubt that this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker." That makes sense to go by that, since Vader is no longer known as Anakin; he no longer sees himself as that, and Sidious DEFINITELY doesn't see him as that anymore.
So why would Vader be surprised when Sidious reveals the relation? I guess I can see why he would be surprised, since Sidious tells Vader that Padme's dead, obviously killing the 'child' she was carrying. But wouldn't Vader be suspicious that Luke's last name is Skywalker?
Some can say that there are other Skywalkers, much as there are other Smiths in our world...but Skywalker did not seem to be a common last name, as Shmi and Anakin were the only ones with it. It's not like the last name Antilles, which is practically the version of 'Smith' in Star Wars.
Luke is introduced as a 19/20 year old and no one seems to have any issue at all with his character development. Most 'Prince' characters in fairy tales are introduced as young men, not young boys. Children, seldom ever make convincing protaganists or are seen as 'deep' characters. Unless your idea of a deep character is the kid in Home Alone....
TPM (enjoyable as it is) doesn't accomplish a whole heck of a lot. Qui-Gon existes to die (just like Darth Maul) and had zero impact on the rest of the series. Exactly what purpose did he serve that a simple re-write to make Obi Wan's character more robust couldn't have solved? It should have started with Anakin being in the role of padawan which would have strengthened the two character's father/son bond and made Obi Wan's ultimate failure more impactful. It is a film series about the father/son bond, why wait to the second chapter to start that? Hell, Obi Wan hardly acknowledges Anakin's existance in the film until the last five minutes!
Throw in an older Padme and start the romance in film one, instead of forcing it into film two and you have probably what amounts to a better PT. Oh, and start Palpatine off as Supreme Chancellor and give the Trade Federation a reason to invade his home planet other than "It is a convient out of the way system..." This makes Federation lashing out at/blaming the Naboo for high trade costs and corruption in the Senate (they don't know Sideous is Palpatine anyway) because the Chancellor is one of their citizens.
But anyway, there are millions of ways the PT could have been better served starting later in Anakin's life. But it is what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doof
And it is frustrating that Obi-wan was such a puss. He is described as a General in ANH. But obviously every Jedi is a general, so big deal. We hear Grevious "Oh, it's the awesome General Kenobi" but we never get to see any reason for this reputation. Just the opposite. With Lucas it is always "Tell don't show."
Why does Obi-wan just lie there at the end of AOTC? He has a couple of cuts! Yet he is paralyzed. he doesn't even try to help Yoda lift that column. But right after he just gets up and walks around.
he has his ass handed to him by Maul, Dooku (twice) and Greivous. he lucks out with Maul and Greivous. That gun gag demeaned his status as a Jedi imo. He's a shitty pilot and keeps having to have his ass saved.
God, how I wish Kenneth Branagh had been cast and the character had been treated with the reverence he deserved. You can't imagine Alec Guiness having to be saved by anybody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beard Esquire
Lucas touted the PT to show the Jedi in their prime. The only thing that he established is the complete ineptitude of the Jedi Order.
ANH, Obi-Wan arrives on the Death Star and Vader senses him, immediately. But the Jedi are constantly around Palpatine and never, ever sense a dark lord of the Sith. If he's using his powers to manipulate the senate, wouldn't somebody sense this? Oh wait, we need this as a plot device so in this saga we cannot sense the Sith. Here's an easy out, the dark side clouds everything... Jedi in their prime? If the Sith haven't been around for 500 years what is the purpose of the Jedi Order anyway? A police force? It just seems idiotic that the trade federation can have a droid army, but the republic doesn't have an army. With as stupid as these Jedi are, who would want them protecting their planets?
This is why Jar Jar is so important. Lucas needed to create a character 10x more of an idiot than the Jedi to take the heat off of his shitty storytelling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster.doofus7
What are you smoking? In the prequels, Obi-wan personally defeated Darth Maul, General Grievous, and Darth Vader. He has won as many duels as Luke, Yoda, Anakin, and Mace Windu combined. How much more badass do you want him to be?
Uh... he didn't "luck out". If it happens once, you attribute it to luck. Happens multiple times? That's no luck. That's guile. And the prequels show that Obiwan relied as much on guile as power, unlike Anakin who relies strictly on the latter. It has been made explicitly clear that Obiwan wasn't nearly as powerful as Yoda or Mace or Anakin, but he always gets results. That's what made prequel Obi-wan so cool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doof
Well, the reason I get so frustrated is because both trilogies could have been amazing and had permanent resonance for generations to come.
Lucas stated 100 times in the 70's and 80's that the opening trilogy was much more mature, much more Machiavellian, more intrigue, less action, more elegant and more tragic, less "whiz-bang" etc. etc. etc. etc. he stated over and over "no one will like them because they are so different in tone."
It should have written itself.
We needed to see:
- Anakin's amazing abilities as a star pilot. Not a pod-racer. Not a "that's a good trick" 10 year old kid. This is what should brought him to Obi-Wan's attention.
- Obi-Wan as a more "reckless' version of himself. How cool would it have been for him to be slightly like Han Solo in his youth? Can you say "character arc?" Lucas can't.
- The twins needed to be born before Vader fully turned. Obi-Wan's "betrayal" would be his hiding them from Anakin - this way Leia would have been with her mom for a month or so in hiding.
- a scene with Obi-Wan - months after Anakin turns - expressing his belief that there is still good in him.
- The droids should have been more on the outside of things. Lucas himself said this was the case when the first trilogy came out.
- the Clone Wars should have been a war - a crusade - against clones and cloning. I believe that was Lucas' original intent. "He believed I should have not gotten involved." This doesn't sound like a civil war to me. Or a duty to be performed in the service of the republic. It sounds more like a jihad.
- we needed to see Obi-Wan's vanity - his hubris at wanting to train Anakin - his desire to train this amazing new Jedi for selfish reasons - it shouldn't have been forced upon him
- Uncle Owen would have been much better as Kenobi's brother as originally intended - it just makes sense and creates a very interesting dynamic between him and "old Ben." "To his family take him?" They are not his family! Why do they take this kid? Owen's gruff and bitter character would have made more sense if he felt his brother had been responsible for ruining the galaxy.
- Tatooine should never have been in the PT.
- and yes, wanting to save a loved one will make people do crazy things, but there is only one thing that could drive someone to the dark side - jealousy. There should have been a love triangle with Obi-Wan.
- Anakin falling into a volcanic pit, not landing on the edge of a river of lava. You wouldn't have to actually see him fall into lava, just fall into the pit. We don't need to know how he survived. And this way people watching in order won't know he is Vader.
- we should have had Godfather-esque political intrigue in the Senate and the courts. That deleted scene of Bail Organa had a bit of the right feel. Jimmy Smits?!!! WTF?
These are all things that were basically established in the first films. All he had to do was backtrack the story to connect everything. We got more juvenile films that glossed over every one of these story points, not more mature ones that met our - totally justified - expectations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doof
This is my point. We shouldn't have seen any of this. If you are going to disagree with me, at least do me the favour of understanding what I'm talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookiex
Well, Cameron CAN make really good movies (love The Abyss, love Titanic) but it's obvious that he often just makes them for self amusement and he feels an affinity with b-movie cliche's done so badly that it becomes a parody of itself. Should've seen the mess in the Alien Anthology forum, I called Aliens out for what it was but everybody seems to be under the impression that Aliens is a narrative masterpiece deserving to be seen as one of the best films of all time with some of the best acting in cinema. Sorry folks, Aliens is paper thin on narrative and the acting isn't even intentionally bad-thus-good type acting that you see in Troma films.
I don't think the problem with the PT is the characters or the narrative. The problem is the execution. Lucas just went all rated G and let's entertain my kids loony with the execution of the PT. Take Anakin for example, if they had a more competent kid fill that role in Episode 1, it would have been a way better film. Now for the Anakin in Ep 2, I'm ok with the actor but the execution of the character/acting as a emo teenager is where it kills the movie for me. In Ep 3 we have a much better Anakin but at that point, it's too little too late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookiex
He has to or else Anakin wouldn't be able to throw in all those lines about saving Obi :P
Hey, when TPM first came out, it was great to watch the CGI battles. Face it, part of what Lucas is all about is playing with whatever new toys are available at the time to him when he makes a movie. At the time, the CGI was phenomenal in TPM. Can't really call it out for having bad CGI war scenes like 10+ years later just because video games have kind of caught up to the cinema CGI tech at this point.
Don't tell them that in the Alien Anthology forum. They will crucify you because Hicks is friggin Oscar worthy and Hudson should win for best supporting actor :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookiex
Simple, just make a comparison with Avatar. Voila, practically the same movie. Heck, you can even just look at it this way, does one really need to have seen Alien to watch Aliens? Most people who have watched Aliens really just started off with that movie and then went back to watch the original Alien much later. So in turn, Aliens isn't much of a sequel as it was more of a reboot. Ripley was also underused as a character in Aliens, the bulk of it was focused on those god awful space marines. Hypersleep chamber and evil corporation (Weyland), how the heck do you need to be in the Alien universe for those elements to be in a movie? Heck, there's been MANY hypersleep chambers before even the original Alien introduced it. As for having the aliens, that's probably the only connection Aliens really had with the original Alien. Apart from that, Aliens might just as well been called something completely different and been just as successful. Oh wait, Cameron already did that, he made Avatar.
Heck, one can make a successful argument that all 4 Alien movies were kind of independent of each other since starting from Aliens, each one was essentially a reboot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia
Frankly for me, it tends to be quite the contrary. I am looking for consistency, and in some cases it comes up short.
Unfortunately I didn't manage to watch most of the OT this weekend as I was planning due to some things that came up, but I did watch part of ANH (and I watched the PT over the course of a few days after getting the set on release day).
Some things really just stick out at me and bug me about how the PT doesn't quite line up with some of the dialogue from the OT. Specifically the following couple of bits:
*When Obi Wan tells Luke that his Uncle (Owen) wanted his father (Anakin) to "stay here" (meaning Tatooine) instead of going off to fight in the clone wars.
*When Bearu tells Owen that Luke "has too much of his father in him."
Now, some peope will argue that I'm nitpicking, but this to me is very important. Both of these lines of dialogue strongly suggest that Anakin was really close with Owen and Bearu. Perhaps that Owen and Anakin were actually brothers (as in blood-relatives) and not just step-brothers that met years later... though the semantics of their specific relation aren't as important as the implied closeness. They could have been step-brothers, but still could have been close.
This dialogue suggests that Anakin actually lived on Tatooine for some time while knowing Owen, that they were close, and that Anakin at some point left to go fight off in the wars. Further, Bearu's comment seems to come from a place of positive reflection upon Anakin. As if she is remembering some kind of positive-adventurous spirit that Anakin was known for at the time.
But in the PT, as far as we can tell/are shown, Anakin goes back to Tatooine to find his mother, and that's when he stumbles upon his step-family, and he and Padme stay there for maybe a day or two tops while Anakin is all angry in his attempts to find his mother, locates her and goes off and slaughters a bunch of sand people, and then comes back stewing about his mother's death, then takes off and as far as we know, never returns.
So, where is this closeness? Where is Owen wanting Anakin to stay behind? Where is Bearu getting this positive view of Anakin from? Owen's repose to Bearu's comment, "That's what I'm afraid of", make sense in relation to Anakin's behavior in the PT, but where is this implied closeness that we get in the OT? That's never shown or even implied in the PT.
This is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts... even more so than stuff that we were hoping to see in the PT but instead are just told that it happened sometime offscreen in between the PT films (because at least in those cases those things still happened within the story). Some will probably argue that I'm reading to much into things, or will pull out the old "certain point of view" line. Yeah, okay, that line worked well to explain what Obi Wan said about Anakin's father in ANH, but does that really have to apply to everything else? Are we to believe that Obi Wan is just some crazy old man who's mind is going and keeps going out of his way to look at EVERYTHING, even small minor details from a "certain point of view" which when presented will pretty much purposely lead the other person to believe something that isn't true at all?
The problem is that the dialogue not only suggests a closeness, but even brings into question how the Jedi order works. As I said earlier, if Owen didn't want Anakin to leave (as Obi Wan says), that suggests that Anakin lived with him for a while... probably until he was at least the same age that Luke is in ANH. So, would he have already been a Jedi at that point? Whether the answer is yes or no, it raises all kinds of contradictions in regards to the age at which a Jedi gets trained, WHERE they get trained, for how long, etc.
Between these statements, as well as Obi Wan saying that Luke's uncle didn't agree with his father's ideals, it just raises more and more questions. (Owen would have to have gotten to know Anakin to even come to understand what his ideals were).
This isn't me "looking" for things to nitpick. These are things that jump out at me as being contradictions. I am watching the movies in the order that the artist now "intends" them to be seen, despite the order in which they were made. I get to the OT films and hear things that are meant to describe the way things were during the time that the PT takes place, and in a number of ways it doesn't match up with what I just watched. The only line that should be a contradiction is Obi Wan saying that Darth Vader killed Anakin since that gets explained away in the following film. Plus even in ANH it kind of works given Obi Wan's hesitation in answering the question. Whether or not Lucas intended it this way when he filmed it, Obi Wan hesitating and then telling Luke something that doesn't match up with the OT makes sense. But the rest of it should add up.
Now, if you disagree, if it doesn't bother you, if you can ignore it, or if you somehow embrace it as is because of some explanation that you can apply to it from other "myths", hey that's fine. But this is how I see it based on the info that I am presented with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doof
Brother, Meesa right there with you. It would have been better if Owen had had no choice but to flee to Tatooine and become a farmer to hide his nephew. Then you get his bitterness, his dislike of Ben etc. etc. An Owen character in the PT - Anakin's brother - that tried to persuade Anakin not to become a jedi would have been fantastic.
Lucas painted himself into a corner with the whole messiah thing.
SW character dynamic: RIP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge
The first Transformers movie was much more entertaining than TPM. There's definately no "Galactic C-SPAN" scenes in a Michael Bay movie...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCT
Please dont make me defend TPM...but against Transformers, I almost have to. Stop with your mind games! THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!
I had to stop on page 1884, this was too much for me
The main thing is the whole retcon issues. Considering how Star Wars (Ep. IV) was thought as a stand alone movie (and it surely feels like one), I don't think there was too much thought about the real back story. Sure, Lucas had a nice outline of events and whatnot, but that didn't mean that it was 'set in stone', things would change.
Having seen TPM again, I can say like that it adds NOTHING to the whole saga. NOTHING. Lucas wasted that opportunity to showcase ILM and the new visual effects revolution, but story-wise? There is nothing relevant to anything. Qui-Gon dies and is almost never talked about in the rest of the series. The whole political thing is so senseless, that it's not even interesting; it's a mess. I actually changed my signature to show this.
Someone pointed out about how Lars talks about Anakin as if they had actually been close, and that's nowhere to be found in the PT. What if Anakin was actually in the army, and was discovered as being force sensitive and then introduced to the Jedi...I mean that would make more sense. Maybe the war coming to Tatooine was he was fighting in another world and that's when his mother died...I mean, every other story we make up is better than the PT. There could've actually been something in the likes of 'Anakin is force sensitive, Lars is not' kind of envy between the two...Lars being able to have a wife, and Anakin not...again, missed opportunity.
Actually, Ep. II was better than expected, it's holding up way better than I thought. Ep. III is still the best of the PT. I also watched Ep. IV, no complains there. One thing we COULD do, is think of the PT as in an alternate universe where nothing makes sense.
One thing that someone mentioned a while ago and is funny to think about, is about the 'rebels'. What if the Empire was actually working great, better than the Republic? "What if"? What if the rebels were nothing more than a terrorist group? What if they were the minority? What if the Empire was finally a safe place?
Another thing, IMO, only after watching Ep. III, you can actually confirm that Anakin IS Vader and thus Luke and Leia's father. What if Vader just told Luke that he was his father just to throw him off? Even think about how Luke could be Anakin's son, but what about Leia? What if that baby didn't survive and the Organa's adopted another one? I know I'm being extremely nitpicky, but it makes sense.
As for Transformers (the first movie) being more entertaining than TPM, TOTALLY AGREE. That doesn't make either one a great movie, btw. How about Cameron being better than Lucas? Well, they're the same. They have these incredible sci-fi ideas that they need to figure out how to transfer them from their mind to the movie screen, but that doesn't mean their great stories or movies (I'm looking at the PT and Avatar...great effects, so so story).
I mean, we just dislike how the PT came out. It's a shame for the missed opportunities, but you know what? The Clone Wars series is just taking that bad aftertaste of TPM. Seriously, I can't believe watching Clone Wars is more enjoyable and engaging than the PT (well, most of it).
Finally saw ESB! I was a bit disappointed by most of the Hoth scenes's PQ, but the rest of the movie looked great! Sound was great as always.
One thing that I realized in the movie though...Vader knows that Luke's last name is Skywalker before Sidious tells him. We definitely know this by him saying that the Rebels were in Hoth, and something along the lines of "Skywalker is definitely with them."
Now Sidious goes by revealing Luke's relation to Vader by saying, "I have no doubt that this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker." That makes sense to go by that, since Vader is no longer known as Anakin; he no longer sees himself as that, and Sidious DEFINITELY doesn't see him as that anymore.
So why would Vader be surprised when Sidious reveals the relation? I guess I can see why he would be surprised, since Sidious tells Vader that Padme's dead, obviously killing the 'child' she was carrying. But wouldn't Vader be suspicious that Luke's last name is Skywalker?
Some can say that there are other Skywalkers, much as there are other Smiths in our world...but Skywalker did not seem to be a common last name, as Shmi and Anakin were the only ones with it. It's not like the last name Antilles, which is practically the version of 'Smith' in Star Wars.
You're over thinking it. Vader acts surprised cause he's putting on an act. Vader wants to overthrow Palpatine and needs Luke to do it. He feigns surprise so the Emperor won't think he's plotting behind his back, although technically they both know they want to get rid of one another. That's what Sith do.
After my one week hiatus I am still amazed at how much PT bashing is allowed on this thread, not that I am saying that their should not be a civil debate about the films but the downright belligerence of PT haters towards PT fans and them referencing their deity Plinkett from RLM as their ray of light. Sorry to say but the people who hate the PT are the MINORITY, not saying that it is more popular than the OT because obviously the OT is more POPULAR no denying that, but to say that the public has a negative view of the PT is pretty much false, however all opinions are subjective so their is no right or wrong. Someone tried drawing the dumb parallel saying that his baseball team is bad and that was a fact, hence saying you can judge a movie on that basis when something is bad it is bad. With a sports team you can you statistics, standings and all other mathematical equations to make a objective statement on their play, and even those can be misleading and somewhat manipulating. With movies their is objective means of evaluating quality. I am just saying if you have a problem with the PT just move along only discuss the movies you ENJOY and try not sounding like a buffoon stating your opinion as a fact or a truth or referencing your deity Plinkett as the end all be all. I swear I will never visit these boards due to the pettiness of the administrators who will suspend some and not others they are as fair as fascist leaders and third world dictators! I am not a OT or PT fan I am a saga fan, and I know one thing I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong!
You're over thinking it. Vader acts surprised cause he's putting on an act. Vader wants to overthrow Palpatine and needs Luke to do it. He feigns surprise so the Emperor won't think he's plotting behind his back, although technically they both know they want to get rid of one another. That's what Sith do.
That does make a lot of sense now that you say it...Vader wants to find Luke not because he was the one to destroy the Death Star (like for revenge) but to ultimately join him and, like he says later on, "rule the galaxy as father and son."
Thanks, I do tend to over think things sometimes :P
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If he's using his powers to manipulate the senate, wouldn't somebody sense this? Oh wait, we need this as a plot device so in this saga we cannot sense the Sith. Here's an easy out, the dark side clouds everything... Jedi in their prime? If the Sith haven't been around for 500 years what is the purpose of the Jedi Order anyway? A police force? It just seems idiotic that the trade federation can have a droid army, but the republic doesn't have an army. With as stupid as these Jedi are, who would want them protecting their planets?
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