Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by 42041

no way, this is perhaps the most consistently entertaining thread on these forums

+1

[MCT]

Be real. Theres no way to have a Star Wars thread without a PT/OT debate breaking out. If you like hip hop, its similar to how there will always be Nas/Jay Z debates. Some arguments never die.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by MCT

Be real. Theres no way to have a Star Wars thread without a PT/OT debate breaking out. If you like hip hop, its similar to how there will always be Nas/Jay Z debates. Some arguments never die.

Jay Z is a punk!

[octagon]

Originally Posted by dookiex

The fact that you fail to understand that TPM was really not much more as an expository piece to set up the main story that is to come in 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 is ridiculous. No imaginary reset button was pressed for 2 and 3. The purpose of TPM is blatantly obvious.

Are you suggesting that TPM was essentially a two hour crawl setting up the rest of the movies?

And that this constitutes good storytelling?

[Beast]

Originally Posted by octagon

Are you suggesting that TPM was essentially a two hour crawl setting up the rest of the movies?

And that this constitutes good storytelling?

You're kinda twisting what he said. But TPM is a set-up movie, and sets up the universe and how things operate. Such as the Jedi Order and the Senate. It's so they could hit the ground running without having to spend time establishing things. ANH operates exactly the same, as a pure set-up film... allowing ESB and ROTJ to also hit the ground running. Though I think TPM does a much better job, since ANH also operates as a Stand Alone picture.

[42041]

Originally Posted by Beast

Though I think TPM does a much better job, since ANH also operates as a Stand Alone picture.

What? That's a bad thing?

[Beast]

Originally Posted by 42041

What? That's a bad thing?

Never sad it's a bad thing. But it also feels so detached from the rest of the Saga.

[gregmasciola]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

The thing is now a days people deal in absolute (sorry I did not mean it to sound like that ) but it is true that they do.

Look at forums and messages board all over the Internet....movies are either EPIC or CRAP People have no middle ground. A few scenes in the movie are not good, forget that 70% of it is very entertaining, the movie is a total crapfest Plus everyone fancy themselves connaiseurs and that their opinions are the right one and that if someone else feel that the movie is not really that bad, they are idiots, childish and imbecile who are accepting everything Hollywood gives them, as such the popular fanboy expression.

Plus it just work in reverse, some just accept everything single bad movie ever made and drink it all up with eagerness and are always demanding for more and are more then happy to argue and call others idiot for not agreeing with them.

There is just no middle ground, it's either black or white.

Don't forget, it also means that they have no lives and live in their parent's basement. Seriously, though, I couldn't agree more with your entire post. I'm glad I don't really fall into that crowd. One rule I've made for myself in the last few years is to not fully judge a movie (or its transfer) until I see it a second time; the first time, we tend to focus on what we didn't like about it, but the second time I already know what I didn't like, so I can focus more on what I do like. I have many blu-rays that I was disappointed with when I first watched them, but now I have no problem with them.

[nathan_393]

I enjoy TPM for nostalgic reasons and I like many of the sequences - but I can at least acknowledge its flaws. I'm excited for some people on this thread to do the same one day. Maybe. Hopefully.

ANH is definitely not just a set-up film either, but okay Beast. Have it your way.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Beast

You're kinda twisting what he said. But TPM is a set-up movie, and sets up the universe and how things operate. Such as the Jedi Order and the Senate. It's so they could hit the ground running without having to spend time establishing things. ANH operates exactly the same, as a pure set-up film... allowing ESB and ROTJ to also hit the ground running. Though I think TPM does a much better job, since ANH also operates as a Stand Alone picture.

I guess I wasn't paying much attention because I didn't learn much about the Jedi order, apart from they send Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon to face a possible attack from the Sith alone and then when Qui-Gon bites the big one they all turn up for his funeral. Yeah thanks guys, safety in numbers.... You may put that down to the grand arrogance of the Jedi theory....

As for the Senate it made no sense. Chancellor Valorum sends a secret envoy of two Jedi's to the aid of a teenage Queen, who can't actually report anything back to the actual Senate. If they can't trust two noble Jedi's what's the Universe coming to?

I enjoy Phantom but with a bit of re-jigging it could have become less redundant. I would have much preferred La Reine Margot with lightsabers.

And the Star Wars Universe didn't need much of a set-up thanks to it's universal themes and all, most people would have got it in about ten-fifteen minutes and that's about when Jar-Jar show up....

The Phantom Menace also operated as a Stand Alone Picture: you're the only one who can stand it! I would say TPM is the Ultimate Stand-Alone-Picture.... Hit the ground running? After TPM audiences certainly left the theatres running!

[Beast]

Originally Posted by nathan_393

I enjoy TPM for nostalgic reasons and I like many of the sequences - but I can at least acknowledge its flaws. I'm excited for some people on this thread to do the same one day. Maybe. Hopefully.

And water is wet. EVERY movie has flaws. So that's kinda a nonsensical statement.

ANH is definitely not just a set-up film either, but okay Beast. Have it your way.

Yes. It's also a Stand Alone movie, like I said. Might want to start paying attention.

It's structure and pace is much like TPM, but TPM does the job a lot better in a number of ways.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Beast

You're kinda twisting what he said. But TPM is a set-up movie, and sets up the universe and how things operate. Such as the Jedi Order and the Senate. It's so they could hit the ground running without having to spend time establishing things.

Heh, you can either spend two+ hours setting things up -or- you can hit the ground running but I don't think you can do both.

But let's set that aside...

As a rule do movies whose sole (or even primary purpose) is to setup subsequent movies strike you as a particularly good idea?

More to the point, do popcorn movies whose sole or primary purpose is to setup subsequent popcorn movies strike you as a good idea?

And how much of TPM was really relevant to subsequent events anyway?

The trade federation and Gungan subplots were completely superfluous and and Anakin/Padme backstories weren't only marginally more relevant.

What really took place in TPM that wouldn't have fit in a crawl for Clones?

Now, I know at this point you usually rattle off a list of important things we learned in TPM - it introduced us to the Jedi Council, we see Coruscant for the first time, we learn about droid armies, etc, etc, etc.

While you're formulating that list ask yourself this - how many of these things are really all that necessary to set up the story and how much screen time are we really talking about.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by chip75

The Phantom Menace also operated as a Stand Alone Picture: you're the only one who can stand it!

Hyperbole much? There's plenty of people who like if not love the film. Pay attetion.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by chip75

I guess I wasn't paying much attention because I didn't learn much about the Jedi order, apart from they send Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon to face a possible attack from the Sith alone and then when Qui-Gon bites the big one they all turn up for his funeral. Yeah thanks guys, safety in numbers.... You may put that down to the grand arrogance of the Jedi theory....

As for the Senate it made no sense. Chancellor Valorum sends a secret envoy of two Jedi's to the aid of a teenage Queen, who can't actually report anything back to the actual Senate. If they can't trust two noble Jedi's what's the Universe coming to?

I enjoy Phantom but with a bit of re-jigging it could have become less redundant. I would have much preferred La Reine Margot with lightsabers.

And the Star Wars Universe didn't need much of a set-up thanks to it's universal themes and all, most people would have got it in about ten-fifteen minutes and that's about when Jar-Jar show up....

The Phantom Menace also operated as a Stand Alone Picture: you're the only one who can stand it! I would say TPM is the Ultimate Stand-Alone-Picture.... Hit the ground running? After TPM audiences certainly left the theatres running!

No he's not! Millions of Star Wars fans love it!

[Beast]

Originally Posted by octagon

Heh, you can either spend two+ hours setting things up -or- you can hit the ground running but I don't think you can do both.

For the sequels. Not really hard to understand how that works is it?

And how much of TPM was really relevant to subsequent events anyway?

Pretty much all of it. Introducing the Universe, the Characters, the Conflict, etc.
And how is the Trade Federation superfluous, when they're a part of the greater Separatist Alliance?

And Anakin and Padme's backstories arn't important? Seriously? I guess we didn't need Luke's either.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

No he's not! Millions of Star Wars fans love it!

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by octagon

Heh, you can either spend two+ hours setting things up -or- you can hit the ground running but I don't think you can do both.

But let's set that aside...

As a rule do movies whose sole (or even primary purpose) is to setup subsequent movies strike you as a particularly good idea?

More to the point, do popcorn movies whose sole or primary purpose is to setup subsequent popcorn movies strike you as a good idea?

And how much of TPM was really relevant to subsequent events anyway?

The trade federation and Gungan subplots were completely superfluous and and Anakin/Padme backstories weren't only marginally more relevant.

What really took place in TPM that wouldn't have fit in a crawl for Clones?

Now, I know at this point you usually rattle off a list of important things we learned in TPM - it introduced us to the Jedi Council, we see Coruscant for the first time, we learn about droid armies, etc, etc, etc.

While you're formulating that list ask yourself this - how many of these things are really all that necessary to set up the story and how much screen time are we really talking about.

Are you kidding me? It's an important first chapter for Anakins further character-development. We see that he has a selfless nature and is strong with the force from an early age, we learn the circumstances that lets him escape slavery and what his place is within the Jedi Order. We see how he happens to become Obi-Wans Padawan, we see that he's already a great pilot (because he can see things before they happen) and we see the strong attachement to his mother and that he has to leave her behind. We hear about the prophecy of "the one who will bring balance to the force" and we learn that it is probably Anakin because his midi-Chlorian count is off the chart and he was most likely conceived by the midi-chlorians.

These are all important threads that are vital for properly understanding Episodes 2, 3 and the OT for that matter!

[42041]

Originally Posted by Beast

And Anakin and Padme's backstories arn't important?

Not really. You could go into excruciating detail into every aspect of their life, but the viewer has an imagination and can fill that in.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by 42041

Not really. You could go into excruciating detail into every aspect of their life, but the viewer has an imagination and can fill that in.

Guess we didn't need to see Luke's beginnings on Tatooine either. Character arc? Pfft. What's that!

We didn't need to see him grow into the man he did over the course of the films. That's utterly unimportant.

[42041]

Originally Posted by Beast

Guess we didn't need to see Luke's beginnings on Tatooine either. Character arc? Pfft. What's that!

We didn't need to see him grow into the man he did over the course of the films. That's utterly unimportant.

Sure, a character needs to be established, but his backstory in Star Wars is minimal. Who plays Luke's 8-year old counterpart?