Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[georgec]

Originally Posted by aramis109

"We" get the concept. It's not especially deep or difficult to grasp. It's the fact that it's tacked on then completely abandoned and attaches a science to the mythos of the Force that many fans just didn't like.

Yup. The "people don't get it" argument is a defense mechanism used when people can't cope with the idea that others have valid, widely held, dissenting opinions that differ from their own.

[Schloob]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Who is WE? There are some people that get the midichlorian-concept and some just don't. I've pointed out why it is important and you say "It just isn't. WE didn't wanna know." There we just have to agree to disagree as it seems. If you've always known that the force can be inherited as you say, where is the big leap with accepting "midichlorians". Do you just dislike the name?

IF you are being serious and not just "baiting", then you have some serious comprehension issues which then helps explain your need to continue debates like the ones we seem to have here. Of course the "WE" means those of us who grew up with the OT before the PT ever came out. I imagine you realize that though. And the thing is he is not saying WE did not want to know(love how you changed what the OP stated ), but that we did not NEED to know. Big difference, simply put it was terrible writing and something like others have said not needed. I was perfectly fine before with a statement like "the FORCE is strong with this one".

From what I can gather you instead would interpert it when Vader said this about Luke in the trench, that of course the force is strong with him because his dad Vader had such a high midiclhorian count. At least for me, that whole storyline in TPM was a waste of time.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Who is WE? There are some people that get the midichlorian-concept and some just don't. I've pointed out why it is important and you say "It just isn't. WE didn't wanna know." There we just have to agree to disagree as it seems.

Do you actually dispute that? Do you honestly think a significant segment of the people who embraced Star Wars (that would be the 'we', btw) were clammoring for an expanation of precisely how force potential was inherited or why some individuals were more force sensitive than others?

Seriously?

I say people were perfectly content not knowing those things. Do we really disagree about that?

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

If you've always known that the force can be inherited as you say, where is the big leap with accepting "midichlorians". Do you just dislike the name?

I think midichlorians were unnecessary and counterproductive but they're clearly part of the canon. I have no trouble accepting them. Taking them seriously is another matter entirely.

Oh, and the name was actually the only thing about them I did like.

[JenM]

Originally Posted by georgec

Midichlodians were so important that after TPM they were never mentioned again...

Call me crazy but Obi-Wan and Yoda both described the force as an energy field that surrounds and penetrates living things. I might be wrong but for 22 years I think that was enough of a description for people. Sometimes less of an explanation is more.

My interpretation of the midichlorians is that knowing of their existence made the Jedi complacent. It caused them to create a system that they thought would let them track down every Jedi in the Republic and raise them in their ways and it would keep them safe from danger. It made them think that there was nothing about the Force that they couldn't know. Like they figured the whole thing out.

Instead it caused them to be so complacent and sure of themselves that they missed a Sith Lord coming to power and shunning the person with the power to save them. So much of their destruction was their own damn fault.

They were so worried that Anakin's compassion for his mother would be their undoing, but in the end it was his compassion for his son that saved them all.

To that end, if midichlorians really are what drive the Force, then they had the smarts to 'create' Anakin (or whatever they did, I wish that had been explained more) away from where the Jedis could have found him early and raised him their way.

As far as what Obi-Wan and Yoda explained the Force as, I'm guessing it was years of isolation that brought them back to understanding what it really was.

[Monkey]

I don't really like the idea of the force being tied to a tangible biological aspect, but that is how he made it in the newer episodes. I guess it wold be nice to get a nice Mitochloridian infusion to give me faster sprint times, higher jumping and stronger force pulls.

I can just pretend the force is something special like it once was when I grew up Yoda certainly didn't describe it the same way as in the new episodes. I vote for OT Yoda.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Uxi

The midichlorians are hardly superfluous as they're integral to Qui-Gon's conjecture that the concentration of midichlorians caused Anakin's conception. Otherwise, the most likely origin for Anakin isn't some strange power that Sidious claims he doesn't even know (but that his master Plagueis did) but that someone just did a 'mind trick' on poor old Shmi after getting their freaky deaky on. These aren't the droids she was looking for, that's for sure.

This kind of brings this whole tangent back to where it started last night/this morning...midichlorians could have been an important story element had the circumstances surrounding Anakin's conception been relevant but as it turned out they were not.

Shmi could have hooked up with a travelling salesman for all the difference Anakin's conception ultimately made to the story.

[Sephiroth5929]

Originally Posted by aramis109

"The cool thing?"

Maybe cool was a bad choice of words. Popular might have been better.

Listen, I stopped worrying about what was cool a long time ago. The minute I became a parent I was automatically no longer cool.

I've been a parent for going on 15 years, so we are in the same boat.

People have opinions, and if it doesn't mesh with yours, oh well. It's when someone tries to ram their opinion down someone else's throat that I become annoyed.

I have no problem with people having a genuine opinion. My thing is, people as a whole have become followers and follow popular opinion are don't rock the boat. You don't have to agree with me, but that doesn't make me or you wrong because we don't agree.

I greatly prefer the OT but I enjoy the PT for what it is.

I look at them as a whole. I like the progression of Anakin from a child to a person from destroyed the universe and saved it in he course of his life and spawned one of the most powerful families in the SW universe.

PT bashing was old when it started, I don't know what people were expecting. But I got out of it exactly what it gave me. Entertainment. Granted some things could've been done better, but oh well, such is life. My only complaint is George Lucas' constant tinkering with the OT for the worse.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Monkey

I don't really like the idea of the force being tied to a tangible biological aspect, but that is how he made it in the newer episodes. I guess it wold be nice to get a nice Mitochloridian infusion to give me faster sprint times, higher jumping and stronger force pulls.

I can just pretend the force is something special like it once was when I grew up Yoda certainly didn't describe it the same way as in the new episodes. I vote for OT Yoda.

That's what I meant with people not "getting it". Sorry, but the force is exactly the same as in the OT, a mysterious energy field that surrounds and penetrates everything. It is even more mysterious and "magic" in the PT because it seems to have a will of its own and shifts from the Jedi to the Sith. And the idea was not dropped after Episode 1. Palpatine mentions them in the Opera-scene and strongly insinuates that he manipulated the midichlorians to create Anakin. Just like Qui Gon suggested that Anakin might have been conceived by the midichlorians.

[IronWaffle]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

That's what I meant with people not "getting it". Sorry, but the force is exactly the same as in the OT, a mysterious energy field that surrounds and penetrates everything. It is even more mysterious and "magic" in the PT because it seems to have a will of its own and shifts from the Jedi to the Sith. And the idea was not dropped after Episode 1. Palpatine mentions them in the Opera-scene and strongly insinuates that he manipulated the midichlorians to create Anakin. Just like Qui Gon suggested that Anakin might have been conceived by the midichlorians.

In re-watching TPM what struck me most about midichlorians is that Qui-Gon gave the scientific explanation to this little slave boy who seems to have had no formal education and who therefore was a better candidate for the kind of more holistic explanation that Obi-Wan gave Luke.

I'm no fan of midichlorians, but I wonder if I'd be as bothered if that sort of exposition were used between two adults.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

That's what I meant with people not "getting it". Sorry, but the force is exactly the same as in the OT, a mysterious energy field that surrounds and penetrates everything. It is even more mysterious and "magic" in the PT because it seems to have a will of its own and shifts from the Jedi to the Sith. And the idea was not dropped after Episode 1. Palpatine mentions them in the Opera-scene and strongly insinuates that he manipulated the midichlorians to create Anakin. Just like Qui Gon suggested that Anakin might have been conceived by the midichlorians.

Blame it on the story teller for telling it that way in EP I. I'll stick to the OT's Yoda's teaching

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by Monkey

I don't really like the idea of the force being tied to a tangible biological aspect, but that is how he made it in the newer episodes. I guess it wold be nice to get a nice Mitochloridian infusion to give me faster sprint times, higher jumping and stronger force pulls.

If you can figure out a technique to put it in your cells and not just your body, you'll be able to get rich on that alone. So yeah, otherwise you theory is teh fail.

Besides, the implied inheritance necessitates a biolgical aspect.

[Shaft Windu]

Something to lighten the mood a bit:

http://www.bestweekever.tv/2011-10-1...wars-costumes/

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by octagon

This kind of brings this whole tangent back to where it started last night/this morning...midichlorians could have been an important story element had the circumstances surrounding Anakin's conception been relevant but as it turned out they were not.

Shmi could have hooked up with a travelling salesman for all the difference Anakin's conception ultimately made to the story.

Then Qui-Gon is probably far less inclined to try to free Anakin (or his mother), much less risk defying the Council to train him. "No? Okay."

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Uxi

Then Qui-Gon is probably far less inclined to try to free Anakin (or his mother), much less risk defying the Council to train him. "No? Okay."

Qui Gon was already intrigued by Anakin by merely sensing how the force was unusually strong with him. The midichlorian thing was just an additional step that the story could have done without. Him merely sensing an unusually strong level of the force in such a young boy could have been all of the reasoning he needed to suspect that he might be the chosen one. All this would require is editing out the midichlorian non-sense, slightly rewording a few lines that would be effected by the removal, and the story is still otherwise the same and is not effected negatively in any way, shape, or form.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Something to lighten the mood a bit:

[Show spoiler]http://www.bestweekever.tv/2011-10-1...wars-costumes/

Here's a few more:

[Show spoiler]


And some cats:




And squirrels:

[mrpink134]

What bothers me and got me thinking about TPM story line is when a young kid 8-10 years old "Anakin" gets taken away from his mother ,goes to a different planet to get quizzed by the Jedi counsel, then they say in front of him that he is a dangerous person and reckless!! Can you just picture what it did to that poor kid? Verbal abuse alone. No wondering he turned on them, Paps had nothing to do with it, they did it to them selves.

[Morsoth]

Originally Posted by mrpink134

What bothers me and got me thinking about TPM story line is when a young kid 8-10 years old "Anakin" gets taken away from his mother ,goes to a different planet to get quizzed by the Jedi counsel, then they say in front of him that he is a dangerous person and reckless!! Can you just picture what it did to that poor kid? Verbal abuse alone. No wondering he turned on them, Paps had nothing to do with it, they did it to them selves.

I like that!

Their fear (unforgivable for a Jedi) conducted them to their own doom!

********************

On the same idea, when they talk about the prophecy announcing the one who would balance the force, is it Luke instead of Anakin?

[MCT]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Something to lighten the mood a bit:

http://www.bestweekever.tv/2011-10-1...wars-costumes/

all of these poor beasts are DEFINITELY thinking, "I wish I could eat my master."

[StoogeFan1118]

Sorry to break up the discussion but is it safe to say that if I have seen all the bonus features on this set(borrowed from friend) and dont see my self watching them again I should just get the two individual box sets for cheaper than the saga set? IMO the features were good but dont have much replay value

[nmycon]

Originally Posted by StoogeFan1118

Sorry to break up the discussion but is it safe to say that if I have seen all the bonus features on this set(borrowed from friend) and dont see my self watching them again I should just get the two individual box sets for cheaper than the saga set? IMO the features were good but dont have much replay value

up here in Canada, the Complete Saga is still cheaper than buying both trilogies

but I'm going to assume we are talking about a difference of no more than $10... there's no way I would pass up on the bonus discs because of $10

If it were any more than $20, then I would get the trilogies.