Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Beast]

Originally Posted by timE1985

I'm suprised there's so much support for the prequel trilogies and special editions on a forum of supposed movie fans. It seems to me that the divide here is between people that enjoyed the movies either before 1997 or after 1999. The original trilogy was a modern hollywood classic. It'd be like a CGI remake of Back to the Future today, but with nonsensical alterations. Like Biff appearing on the train at the end or a randomly inserted psuedo-hip hop song.

Being a movie fan doesn't mean you have to prefer the unaltered versions of the films.

And wrong again. Saw the movies when they originally opened in theaters. Still prefer the SE's.

99% of the changes were for the better. From Mos Eisley and Jabba in ANH, the Wampa and Emperor in ESB, to Jedi Rocks and Anakin in RotJ.

And I would put the PT on par if not better in some areas than the OT. TPM is probably the best film of all 6.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Beast

And I would put the PT on par if not better in some areas than the OT. TPM is probably the best film of all 6.

Hahaha.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Hahaha.

Laugh all you wish. I just know I am glad the 3D releases is starting with TPM.

I can work on boosting my theatrical viewings. I saw it around 15 times in the theater already.

Attack of the Clones was only 5. And Revenge of the Sith was only 2.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Beast

I saw it around 15 times in the theater already.

Was this in Guantanamo?

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Was this in Guantanamo?

It stopped being funny a while ago.

I just really fell in love with the movie. It was pretty much everything I wanted out of the film.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Beast

Charming to the last.

But it's true. TPM has a much grander storyline than any of the films.

It's really quite cool to see the universe "Before the Dark Times, Before the Empire".

Seeing the Senate and the Jedi Order, and how both of them operated was something I always wanted to see.

I'll admit that in some respects it was nice to see how things were before the Empire ruled.

But still I don't really think it had all that "grand" of a storyline. The movie can easily be summed up as "woo-hoo! We found Anikin!"

And the movie as a whole could have been executed in a much better manner. There was a lot more going on in Episodes 2 and 3 than there was in Episode 1. Episode 1 was a slow-crawl compared to the other two, IMO. Both of them had a lot more going on. While I am very critical of the prequels overall, I think they got better from one to the next.

[Beast]

Episode 1 was a slow-crawl by design. Watch some of the extras.

Lucas wanted to pack all of the necessary exposition of how the Galaxy operates into E1.

So when they got to E2 and E3, they could hit the ground running and not have to do as much.

A New Hope operates in much the same menner. But I think TPM does it a lot better than ANH does.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Arguing about these releases with a dude who thinks The Phantom Menace is probably the best of all 6 Star Wars movies is just about as much of a waste of time as arguing with a deaf guy about which Beatles album is the best. Just.... not a good movie.

Ridiculous.

If nothing else I guess it gives good perspective on the people who really dig the Special Edition changes. Now it makes perfect sense.

[AintNoSin]

Originally Posted by Beast

But I think TPM does it a lot better than ANH does.

The only thing TPM does better than ANH is cure insomnia.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Arguing about these releases with a dude who thinks The Phantom Menace is probably the best of all 6 Star Wars movies is just about as much of a waste of time as arguing with a deaf guy about which Beatles album is the best. Just.... not a good movie.

Ridiculous.

Everyone has their particular favorites, this one just happens to be mine. Deal with it.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by AintNoSin

The only thing TPM does better than ANH is cure insomnia.

Not for me. That would be A New Hope. Which frankly, I can barely sit through anymore. It's just boring.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Beast

Everyone has their particular favorites, this one just happens to be mine. Deal with it.

Hahaha, "deal with it."

[Cookson]

LOL... does it really matter that he like TPM more than the others? I mean, MOST of us disagree, but who cares? He likes that film... I know I don't care.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Cookson

LOL... does it really matter that he like TPM more than the others? I mean, MOST of us disagree, but who cares? He likes that film... I know I don't care.

Seriously.

[whbinder]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

They'd each only be about 7 - 10 minutes long, though, otherwise it wouldn't work.

Joking aside. I think one of the reasons people aren't fond of the prequels is that the first two (let's keep III out of this for a second) didn't do to much to develop the story or characters. I'm not saying that's the only thing film has to offer, merely that those two films didn't excel in those areas.

The third one did. I think it's a shame that the story of the first two films wasn't compressed into the first act of the first film and spent the trilogy focusing on the arc of "Sith" in a less hurried fashion.

As to the other topic, I personally didn't like Jar-Jar, but he was far less grating than the Podrace commentator. Minor character? Yes. Deal-breaker? No. Just an annoying character in one scene.

[whbinder]

Originally Posted by Cookson

LOL... does it really matter that he like TPM more than the others? I mean, MOST of us disagree, but who cares? He likes that film... I know I don't care.

Amen. I don't share Beast's taste in film, but that doesn't make either of us right or wrong and I'm tired of the insults from both the Orthodox and Reformed fans. Just enjoy what you enjoy.

It's too bad that fans of the original don't get the Blu-ray they want. Beyond that I don't see the point of arguing.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Beast

Episode 1 was a slow-crawl by design. Watch some of the extras.

Lucas wanted to pack all of the necessary exposition of how the Galaxy operates into E1.

So when they got to E2 and E3, they could hit the ground running and not have to do as much.

A New Hope operates in much the same menner. But I think TPM does it a lot better than ANH does.

Originally Posted by Beast

Not for me. That would be A New Hope. Which frankly, I can barely sit through anymore. It's just boring.

You are entitled to your opinions, of course, but I will say that part of what amazes me about your stance on "A New Hope" is how you previous described the bonus disc that came with the first release of the Original Trilogy on DVD to be "incredible".

While the bonus features on the disc do also encompass "Empire" and "Jedi" to some extent, the original movie is the primary focus of most of the behind the scenes documentaries, etc. on that disc. "Empire of Dreams" really focuses more so on the difficulty Lucas had in getting the original film made and the challenges and problems there of. The whole thing was quite an uphill battle.

Then there's that other extra feature with other directors and film makers talking about the influence that Star Wars had on them.

I just kind of find it funny that you would be so complimentary about a bunch of extra, behind the scenes features that primarily focus on the movie in the series that you find to be the most boring. But, it's all good at the end of the day.



A lot of what bugs me about TPM (beyond the ovbious things that are often brought up like Jar Jar, etc) is just that in many ways it didn't feel like a "beginning" to the story.

It just kind of "hits the ground running" with Obi Wan and Qui Gon on their mission at the beginning. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But I think more of a feeling of it being a "beginning" should have really been present.

I realize that most everyone going into TPM had already seen the previous movies and knew the basics, but none the less, I really think that some kind of introduction about who the Jedi are, what the force is, etc, really should have been present in the movie. In some ways similar to how Obi Wan explains it to Luke in ANH, but it could be done in a new, original way. Perhaps they could have started out at the Jedi Temple, either with some new kids just coming into being trained, or with someone being given a tour of the temple and an explanation of the Jedi order. These are just some potential examples off of the top of my head... it could have been done in many other ways.

And even some of what "action" does happen in the movie feels a bit to "set-up" and not really like it flows with the movie (at least to me).

Take the Pod Race, for example. Now, the race in and of itself was pretty cool, and it's often one of the more complimented aspects of the film (at least in my experience of other's responses to it). None the less, the whole set of circumstances that lead up to Anikin entering the race (the part on the ship needing to be replaced, the Jedi not having the right currency to buy a replacement from Watto, etc), just all seemed a bit to contrived and set up, like dominos specifically lined up for the sheer purpose of being tipped over, just as an excuse to lead into something "action-y" in the movie.

Then there's Darth Maul. A cool looking character, and he was part of a great lightsaber battle (even if the lightsaber battles in the prequels do look a bit too much like planned out "dances" than true dramatic battles at times). But he had NO character development. Now, I'm not saying a TON of time should have been spent focusing on him or his back story, but they could have found more of a "happy medium". As it is, Darth Maul just feels like he's there for almost no other purpose other than the fact that it's a Star Wars movie and there "has to be" a lightsaber battle in it, and they need someone to have that battle against.


Now, I'm sure you'll turn around and make some comparisons to ANH and the original trilogy. And sure, the movies have their flaws. But most of the flaws in the originals (espeially ANH) can be very much attributed to the limitations of the time, money, and technology that Lucas had available to him at the time. And as for any pacing issues, ANH came out back in a time when movies in general were much slower paced than they are today. That really started to change more in the 80s for the most part.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

So you also did not pick up the main message of Star Wars, everyone can and should be redeemed, no wonder you hate it so much

lol. Outside of the Godwin-violation, only a Sith speaks in absolutes.

[Beast]

And? I still like ANH. I just consider it the weakest of the 6 films.

And the bonus disc is incredible, so hopefully Empire Of Dreams is cared over to the Blu-Ray.

As for liking extras better than the movie, I did buy Batman Begins and Dark Knight for the extras.
Both films which I really can't stand. But the extra features are worthwhile. Especially the A&E/History channel ones.

Your complaint about not explaining the Jedi make no sense, they're explained right in the opening crawl. As well as showing you what they're capable of in the very first action scene. As well as later when Qui-Gon is talking to Anakin, and when Anakin meets the Jedi Council. There's a little thing called "Show.... don't tell" after all. I swear some people want the movie to pause, and the characters to start talking to the audience and filling every little detail. Even though nobody complains that you needed your hand held in the OT. Seems like a nonsense argument just to bash the Prequels, as usual.

Everything is contrived in movies. It's because they're written by someone so that the story flows from point A to point B. Never really thought that complaint about any film made sense. The writer sets up an issue that needs to be overcome to move the plot forward. Hell, even Lord of Rings (The Books and Movies) is filled with it. Every movie is. If you want spontanious events, go watch reality televesion. Well, the ones that are not scripted anyway.

Maul is the only weak part of TPM for me. But again, that's by design. He wasn't meant to have much of a character. He was Palpatine's lapdog of an Apprentice. He's more of an animal than a man, look at how he paces like a caged tiger during the lightsaber duel when the shields come between him and Qui-Gon. He doesn't have a personal ambition or desire for power or anything... because that's how Palpy wanted him. But as has been noted, that's why Palpatine is a terrible teacher. He doesn't want to share the knowledge or the power, because that is a risk to his own power. Darth Vader in E4 has pretty much no backstory either. So I don't see the issue. He's as much of a one-dimensional figure as Maul is. Or hell, Boba Fett is an even better example.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Beast

Darth Vader in E1 has pretty much no backstory either. So I don't see the issue. He's as much of a one-dimensional figure as Maul is. Or hell, Boba Fett is an even better example.

No, it's a night and day difference between how Vader is handled in ANH and how Maul and Fett are handled.