Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

And, lets not forget that some of the changes are actually welcomed by most of us - they clean up effects or just make things better. My classic example of a welcomed change is the updated Battle of Yavin. Better effects, better dogfights, better everything. Just an example.

I have always LOVED this new shot of the Yavin flyby-








However there were a couple of other new shots during the battle that are obviously CG and have have a cartoony look to them. I wish that they could have straightened those up a bit.

.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Lemmy Lugosi

I'm in a different boat....I bought the SW blu set....but I haven't watched it yet.

I just cant see investing another 12+ hours into something that only frustrates and irritates me at the end of the day.....if I don't watch it in the next year or two, I'll likely sell it off. And I can't ever recall, with all the different SW releases I've bought, any time when I wasn't excited about seeing Star Wars....but I just can't raise my interest enough to care much about it anymore.

That's how I feel about the series anymore. Just very meh. I haven't even bought the blu-ray set, and have no intention to do so. This is the first time I haven't bought a new Star Wars boxset too. Heck, the only one I watch anymore is ANH, and that's only once a year maybe. I don't enjoy the prequels or ROTJ. I love ESB, but because I don't like ROTJ I don't watch ESB much. I watch ANH as its own story with a beginning and end, and I enjoy it this way. I don't need any of the other movies to enjoy it. I watch the Clone Wars every week, too, lol.

Star Wars used to be my life. My childhood revolved around Star Wars. But with all the bullshit that has come from it what with Lucas, the fans, and the incessant fighting in the fandom I'm just tired of it. There are far better films out there than this franchise, and I just don't have that childlike wonder I used to have for it. ANH will always have my respect for what it did for the industry, and the Lucas of that time will always have my respect for what he did for the industry.

When ANH is released by itself on blu-ray I will buy it, but I will probably never own the others on blu-ray.

[ChadFL]

Wow, this thread has more pointless insults and fanboy attacks than any other I've seen. Can't get through 3 consecutive posts without someone attacking anyone who might dare say something negative about George Lucas or his latest round of film "upgrades."

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

Wow, this thread has more pointless insults and fanboy attacks than any other I've seen. Can't get through 3 consecutive posts without someone attacking anyone who might dare say something negative about George Lucas or his latest round of film "upgrades."

Well I think the problem is that some people who complain about Lucas take it too far, and take the whole thing way too seriously and personally. But in the posts you mention, it kind of sounds like they're talking about anyone who has any criticisms or frustration over the situation, which I don't think is their intent (not all of them, anyway).

Personally, I sum up my thoughts on the matter like this-- I think the prequels are poor films, but I bought the Prequel Blu-Ray set because I sometimes like revisiting them anyway, and I enjoy some of the Prequel-era expanded universe stuff.

As for the OT, I refuse to buy or watch the Blu-Ray versions, but I've got pretty nice fan-made DVD versions of the UOT, which I'll continue to enjoy until maybe one day it gets the restoration treatment it deserves.

[Cook]

Lol, check out this new Verizon commercial featuring R2D2.

Verizon Commercial - Spectrum by LG: R2D2 - YouTube

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Well I think the problem is that some people who complain about Lucas take it too far, and take the whole thing way too seriously and personally. But in the posts you mention, it kind of sounds like they're talking about anyone who has any criticisms or frustration over the situation, which I don't think is their intent (not all of them, anyway).

Personally, I sum up my thoughts on the matter like this-- I think the prequels are poor films, but I bought the Prequel Blu-Ray set because I sometimes like revisiting them anyway, and I enjoy some of the Prequel-era expanded universe stuff.

As for the OT, I refuse to buy or watch the Blu-Ray versions, but I've got pretty nice fan-made DVD versions of the UOT, which I'll continue to enjoy until maybe one day it gets the restoration treatment it deserves.

I'm pretty much in agreement. I think the prequels are pretty mediocre, but episodes 2 and 3 enjoyable for the most part. And even though I'm a huge Star Wars fan I can't justify buying the re-issues with countless changes (most of which make the films worse, not better) to the films I grew up on if the actual films (original cuts) are abandoned.

I can understand directors doing re-cuts, but at least have enough respect for your fans to include the original cuts (that held up for nearly two decades) with the edited versions. Is there any other director who just abandons the original cuts so completely and pretended they never existed? This is the one problem I have with Lucas, as is (I think) the case with most Star Wars fans. I was at Celebration V and nearly everyone I talked too had similar feelings about Lucas. Looking forward to Celebration VI this year in any case.

[Damage Inc.]

How about asking someone who's not a big fan and hasn't seen it a zillion times?
Like me, I don't know much about this whole 'Star Wars' thing, apart from what it's about and I did see the movies.
But I wouldn't know any more changes than the whole "Han shot first!"-thing.
I know that this franchise got overhauled for VHS, DVD and now BD again, but I couldn't tell what's old or new.
So I think the old-time fans should step back and maybe watch it from a newcomer's perspective.
Not worrying about what might have changed, and see how someone new would receive it as it comes.

You know what happened when I came out the theater after seeing Episode I?
I became a new fan of sorts, although I had already seen the first movies on TV and VHS.
I absolutely loved it, and definitely not because I was like 12 and Jar Jar made me want to buy toys of him.
No, not at all, I loved the story, I loved the action, I loved the performances and atmosphere, I loved the looks and characters.
It definitely showed something "pre", something fresh and something building up to the grittier and darker original films.
It's different, yes, but like I said, it tells something before the originals and it IS simply not the same thing.
I just have to say, it's still 'Star Wars', no matter how true you want to be to the old days of it.
George Lucas made this thing, it's his vision of his own creation,
and I'm not going to argue and complain about it if he wants to do with it what he did.
He will see the ratings, I'll have my opinion about it, but I'll take it for what it is, enjoy it or not, perhaps rate it and that's it.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by Damage Inc.

How about asking someone who's not a big fan and hasn't seen it a zillion times?
Like me, I don't know much about this whole 'Star Wars' thing, apart from what it's about and I did see the movies.
But I wouldn't know any more changes than the whole "Han shot first!"-thing.
I know that this franchise got overhauled for VHS, DVD and now BD again, but I couldn't tell what's old or new.
So I think the old-time fans should step back and maybe watch it from a newcomer's perspective.
Not worrying about what might have changed, and see how someone new would receive it as it comes.

You know what happened when I came out the theater after seeing Episode I?
I became a new fan of sorts, although I had already seen the first movies on TV and VHS.
I absolutely loved it, and definitely not because I was like 12 and Jar Jar made me want to buy toys of him.
No, not at all, I loved the story, I loved the action, I loved the performances and atmosphere, I loved the looks and characters.
It definitely showed something "pre", something fresh and something building up to the grittier and darker original films.
It's different, yes, but like I said, it tells something before the originals and it IS simply not the same thing.
I just have to say, it's still 'Star Wars', no matter how true you want to be to the old days of it.
George Lucas made this thing, it's his vision of his own creation,
and I'm not going to argue and complain about it if he wants to do with it what he did.
He will see the ratings, I'll have my opinion about it, but I'll take it for what it is, enjoy it or not, perhaps rate it and that's it.

That's all well and good. I get what you're saying and agree. For casual fans of Star Wars the difference between original cuts and re-cuts is trivial. But there is an extremely large hardcore fan base for these films. Just saying most directors don't' disown original cuts and pretend they never existed. Peter Jackson for example released both the theatrical editions of LOTR and also the extended editions. It's just seems a little unfair not to release both cuts and let the consumer decide which they want.

[thebard]

Originally Posted by Damage Inc.

How about asking someone who's not a big fan and hasn't seen it a zillion times?
Like me, I don't know much about this whole 'Star Wars' thing, apart from what it's about and I did see the movies.
But I wouldn't know any more changes than the whole "Han shot first!"-thing.
I know that this franchise got overhauled for VHS, DVD and now BD again, but I couldn't tell what's old or new.
So I think the old-time fans should step back and maybe watch it from a newcomer's perspective.
Not worrying about what might have changed, and see how someone new would receive it as it comes.

I can support that as a reasonable take on your particular experience with these films. But - and I mean no disrespect here - the sections I've bolded above are a perfect example of why the original edits should be released and given the respect they deserve.

Yes, these films may legally belong to Lucas (well... "A New Hope" and the prequels anyway; ESB & ROTJ are debatable...), but they also have a place in history. Consider that film students will never have an appropriate print to refer to when studying special effects of the 1970's; they'll have to use a VHS or LaserDisc copy. It is revisionism at its worst. I'm surprised the National Film Registry actually accepted this for entry into their archives... what print are they using? The '97 special edition?

Seriously, what would people say if Kino witheld the restored Metropolis, and insisted that the Moroder version was the only sanctioned copy? Young film buffs would grow up thinking "Wow, that music was really ahead of it's time for '27!" Think of every film you know of with dated special effects... The Ten Commandments - The Wizard of Oz - Forbidden Planet... if the creators were around today & insisted on only releasing cgi-updated versions on blu, there would be an *uproar*.

Lucas should look to Alien Anthology (2 verisions of each film included) - Close Encounters (3 versions) - Blade Runner (*five* versions) and the like for cues. Not perfect perhaps (complain all you want about the color timing on the Alien transfers), but these are true, "ultimate" editions in that the studios were not looking at what future bucks they could milk the public for by witholding content, but rather how they could best present the work in a respectable package. All versions presented with decent transfers and suitable extras. The director wants changes? Fine, update your movie, fix all the blunders (or even add new ones), but acknowledge the film's achievements in the context of its era.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by thebard

I can support that as a reasonable take on your particular experience with these films. But - and I mean no disrespect here - the sections I've bolded above are a perfect example of why the original edits should be released and given the respect they deserve.

Yes, these films may legally belong to Lucas (well... "A New Hope" and the prequels anyway; ESB & ROTJ are debatable...), but they also have a place in history. Consider that film students will never have an appropriate print to refer to when studying special effects of the 1970's; they'll have to use a VHS or LaserDisc copy. It is revisionism at its worst. I'm surprised the National Film Registry actually accepted this for entry into their archives... what print are they using? The '97 special edition?

Seriously, what would people say if Kino witheld the restored Metropolis, and insisted that the Moroder version was the only sanctioned copy? Young film buffs would grow up thinking "Wow, that music was really ahead of it's time for '27!" Think of every film you know of with dated special effects... The Ten Commandments - The Wizard of Oz - Forbidden Planet... if the creators were around today & insisted on only releasing cgi-updated versions on blu, there would be an *uproar*.

Lucas should look to Alien Anthology (2 verisions of each film included) - Close Encounters (3 versions) - Blade Runner (*five* versions) and the like for cues. Not perfect perhaps (complain all you want about the color timing on the Alien transfers), but these are true, "ultimate" editions in that the studios were not looking at what future bucks they could milk the public for by witholding content, but rather how they could best present the work in a respectable package. All versions presented with decent transfers and suitable extras. The director wants changes? Fine, update your movie, fix all the blunders (or even add new ones), but acknowledge the film's achievements in the context of its era.

I couldn't have said it better, and I agree 100%. I wish Lucas would follow suit with these films. At least, with ANH since the original unaltered cut was the one that changed cinema so much and revolutionized the genre. Its sad its not available in the best format.

[Damage Inc.]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

That's all well and good. I get what you're saying and agree. For casual fans of Star Wars the difference between original cuts and re-cuts is trivial. But there is an extremely large hardcore fan base for these films. Just saying most directors don't' disown original cuts and pretend they never existed. Peter Jackson for example released both the theatrical editions of LOTR and also the extended editions. It's just seems a little unfair not to release both cuts and let the consumer decide which they want.

I agree to that too, that you at least get the option.

However, wouldn't it be a LOT of work to restore and update multiple versions though?
I mean, "LOTR" isn't exactly like they were altered in special effects and up for restoration.
But they were extended and edited again, then mastered for an HD-home-video-transfer.
So, I can imagine it being easier to that franchise and also easier to just go for one version of 'Star Wars'.
In which case Lucas apparently went for the newer version.
If we speak of "fair", I think you should look at it from the creator's perspective too.
And sure, there would be money coming in for the different versions, but it's probably still a lot of work.
Myself I think it would be a pain to go through all of it, especially if I'd only find one version worth putting out there.
Although, I'm not sure on Lucas' opinions on that...

Another thing is, it seems to me that George Lucas' idea is (or was) to keep shaping this project until it's done.
I just looked at some more information and seeing for example that voices of the newer films were added on the DVDs of the older films.
Like how apparently Anakin's voice would be used somewhere in Ep.VI or something(?).
That indicated to me that he clearly thought the whole thing wasn't done yet.
Also, the first 3 films were conceived as parts 4, 5 and 6. Which I don't know if that was known at the time.
But it seems like he saved the first three films and first half of the story for later, maybe to wait for the right technologies to come around, I don't know.
In any way, it seems to me like he just wasn't happy with his creation and kept on working on it until he thought it was done.

Who knows, maybe if it was possible, he would've released all these 6 films in a row as they are on BD now if that were possible 30 years ago.
If that was the case, nobody could have complained about differences, because there would have been no earlier version.
A version that wasn't right or finished in his eyes.
And I think it would have been just as much of a success as the first 3 were.
Because the modern film-eye of moviegoers today has become very critical as we all know.
And that's a double-edged sword, because who knows if 'Star Wars' would have been successful today either.
So yeah, basically, was he working on something that could only be finished in the distant future,
or did he release something (the prequel and updates to the originals) in that future that should have been released back then?


This is also completely in my neutral view though.
Not defending or offending George Lucas and also not the fans.
I do not know George Lucas, nor would I know about what his interests are (as in his creation or more money).

[VagueSimplicity]

Just got the Complete Saga and I was absolutely excited to start watching. I'm watching them all in chronological order, day by day, as I haven't seen them that way, but I sneaked a peek at the original trilogy just to see how they look on Blu-ray. Simply gorgeous, I found myself accidentally watching "A New Hope" all the way to the end. (Oh well) I was enticed to buy this set after watching the first two seasons of The Clone Wars on Blu-ray. Damn those promotional sales! I'm too weak and easily tempted. I guess I'll never become a Jedi.

So far I've only witnessed the changes to the Prequel Trilogy which of course are gladly welcome. That, and A New Hope's changes, which aren't. Thank you Lucas for getting rid of that god awful Yoda puppet in The Phantom Menace. The only changes I could make out for "A New Hope" were the 2004 DVD changes (which I'm used to since I've only seen the VHS version a couple of times in its entirety), that new fratboy scream Obi-Wan uses to scare the sand people, and the horrendous CG rocks R2 "hides" behind which honestly make no sense. When I saw them I thought I had lost my perception of depth because they were so flat and two-dimensional. I was also astonished at how R2 was agile enough to enter and exit the cave with those rocks (which like to disappear between scenes) in the way. Then again, what can't that little droid do?

I'll have to give my opinion of ESB and ROTJ later. All in all, though, I'm sure the changes won't piss me off like they did the hardcore fans (whose complaints I totally understand). But I just choose to ignore the changes like The Emperor's depiction in Episode V and Young Anakin's ghost in VI, because as I mentioned before, I've only seen the original VHS tapes several times (I'd say as many times as I watched the DVDs), so I'm not as devoted to the sanctity of these films. I do wish there were unaltered versions in this set, just so I could compare, because I miss seeing the old Emperor's mysterious, distorted form in the original version (when we didn't really know that much about him). Then again, I do have the unaltered versions on DVD, but I just can't watch them. The dirty, non-anamorphic picture is too horrifying to look at stretched on my TV. Lol.

[Damage Inc.]

Originally Posted by VagueSimplicity

...and the horrendous CG rocks R2 "hides" behind which honestly make no sense. When I saw them I thought I had lost my perception of depth because they were so flat and two-dimensional.

I guess that's where the 3D-re-releases will come into play. XD

[LimeiBook86]

It's interesting to read about the articles going around about Lucas 'retiring'. In one snippet it mentions how the fans hate him whenever he edits something. Hah!

I honestly don't think there would be nearly as much hate for the man if he would just re-release the original versions in a modern format. I can live with the original LDs and DVDs, but sure it would be nice to have a BD of the originals.

But as others have said, it's his film he can do what he wishes. But I don't think he's done with movies yet. Let alone Star Wars. I hope Star Wars continues on forever, cartoons, TV series, comics, books, somehow, in some form, it will live on.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by svenge

You're missing the original point, which was that the entire sequence was a bloated momentum-killing waste whose duration could've been cut by at least 75% if Lucas wasn't selling a video game based on the premise on top of action figures of the unnecessary characters involved therein.

I think it might a chicken and egg situation. Hard to know whether George wanted the Pod Race because he thought it was a good idea for the movie or whether he wanted it for the videogame.

When I saw the pod race, I did think it was a bit too long, but I really thought he was trying to replicate the excitement from the 'cycle' scenes in the forest in Episode VI, which were well reviewed at the time.

As for other posters complaints about Anakin as a kid in Episode 1, I agree in part. But I think most of the complaints are from men afraid that if they admit to liking a movie that features a little boy, that they won't seem "macho".

But on the other hand, one of the many flaws in the prequels is that we never see Anakin changing from the sweet little boy in Episode 1 to the egotist in Episode 2. At the very least, we should have seen in Episode 1 hints of the anger or fear at having been a slave or being separated from his mother that would lead to the dark side. Perhaps we could have seen even at a very young age how his forced isolation in the Jedi temple or continuing and constant nightmares would affect his future character, perhaps also emphasizing how the Jedi were hypocritical or how their traditions (no close relationships, no marriages, isolation of children) contributed to their own destruction. For example, would Anakin have grown up with fear of the death of loved ones which led to the dark side if the Jedi had made arrangements to buy his mother out of slavery? One of the issues that Lucas never dealt with in the OT is that almost every single decision made by the Jedi were bad decisions and Yoda himself was frequently wrong.

Or, Lucas should have shortened the "Anakin as little kid" story and spent some time on a somewhat older Anakin who starts to turn angry as the hormones kick in. That's when most kids turn evil and we question who they are anyway.

[gusw666]

Originally Posted by Cook

Lol, check out this new Verizon commercial featuring R2D2.

Verizon Commercial - Spectrum by LG: R2D2 - YouTube

Loved it, thx mate!


Gus

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I think it might a chicken and egg situation. Hard to know whether George wanted the Pod Race because he thought it was a good idea for the movie or whether he wanted it for the videogame.

When I saw the pod race, I did think it was a bit too long, but I really thought he was trying to replicate the excitement from the 'cycle' scenes in the forest in Episode VI, which were well reviewed at the time.

As for other posters complaints about Anakin as a kid in Episode 1, I agree in part. But I think most of the complaints are from men afraid that if they admit to liking a movie that features a little boy, that they won't seem "macho".

I'd have no problem saying I loved a movie about a little girl, let alone a little boy. Fact remains that the kid did a horrible job. If anything brought the movie to a screeching halt for me, it was him.

I loved the podrace, and it's still one of my favorite sequences. Could it be shorter? Sure. It amazes me, though, that any fan of Star Wars movies would be bored by that sequence.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by LimeiBook86

It's interesting to read about the articles going around about Lucas 'retiring'. In one snippet it mentions how the fans hate him whenever he edits something. Hah!

I honestly don't think there would be nearly as much hate for the man if he would just re-release the original versions in a modern format. I can live with the original LDs and DVDs, but sure it would be nice to have a BD of the originals.

But as others have said, it's his film he can do what he wishes. But I don't think he's done with movies yet. Let alone Star Wars. I hope Star Wars continues on forever, cartoons, TV series, comics, books, somehow, in some form, it will live on.

I agree with you. Most of the hate he gets is self inflicted. If he released the originals in a modern format, more than half the hate would evaporate. If you want your fans to love you, give them what they want. If not, you have what we have here.

Anyway, I think the PT hate he gets really boils down to his choice of what story he chose to tell. He started too early (TPM doesn't really accomplish much in the grand scheme of the series) and he skipped the most interesting period (Between ROTS and ANH). But it is what it is.

I like George, I do, I just think he might want to stick to producing (which he was very effective at, i.e. Indy and the last two OT films). Seems his best work is accomplished when he works with others.

[thebard]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

As for other posters complaints about Anakin as a kid in Episode 1, I agree in part. But I think most of the complaints are from men afraid that if they admit to liking a movie that features a little boy, that they won't seem "macho".

I think it has more to do with this:

Darth Vader would never say "yipee".

[NYorker]

Originally Posted by thebard

I think it has more to do with this:

Darth Vader would never say "yipee".

Would he also say "noooooooooooo....?"