Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[jukteen]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I think that's the reason why some people say there will never be an "ultimate set". While each person's definition of "ultimate" may vary, in general things that I think many people want/hope would be included in a theoretical ultimate set would be any and all extras from past releases, as much additional extra and archival features as possible that have never been released before, probably both the original versions and newest editions of each the movies (and maybe in some people eyes, some of the other editions inbetween).

Yup, that's exactly what I mean and what I'm looking for whenever I say "definitive release". The sets that come with the movies themselves in the best quality and every single bonus/behind the scenes features ever made, but I guess this set is as good as it get in terms of blu-ray release goes.

Thanks again to everyone for sharing their knowledge with me, I will be purchasing this complete saga edition very soon, can't wait to see what happens after episode III.

Oh and one more thing.. which order do you guys suggest I watch these in? OT and then the prequels or prequels and then the OT?

[Canuck21]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I disagree. While many diehard "Force addicts" would love to see the original versions restored, I think a lot of the fans don't care too much. Sure, having the option would be nice, but who besides those with an unreasonable "Lucas owes me" chip on their shoulder have cried foul? We all have opinions, but in the end, Lucas owns "Star Wars" outright, and as such, he's free to do what he likes...whether any of us like it or not. No amount of whining and complaining, online or not, will change that; in fact, its precisely because of such cruelty that Lucas has retreated; he's sick of selfish idiots demanding their way. He worked most of his professional life, trying to gain freedom to tell his stories his own way, only to have some repeatedly and hatefully condemn him personally for it.

And, just so we're clear, I'm not some obsessed "Lucas worshiper", either. There's some of his choices I don't agree with, but they're (mostly) minor compared to everything else in the series. I was born the year "Empire" came out, and grew up with the OT on VHS, like many of my generation. However, I didn't have a ton of expectations for what the prequels should've been, and overall, I think he did a great job. How and why anyone expected Anakin to be a cold-blooded killer from the start is beyond me.

What?!? I sure didn't expected Anakin to be a cold-blooded killer from the start; that would be boring and one-dimentional. A multi-layered character is so much more interesting. The problem is I didn't expect Anakin to be so freaking whiny.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Canuck21

What?!? I sure didn't expected Anakin to be a cold-blooded killer from the start; that would be boring and one-dimentional. A multi-layered character is so much more interesting. The problem is I didn't expect Anakin to be so freaking whiny.

Like Father, Like Son. It didn't help that his training was different from the other Jedis and having Palpatine whispering in his ear.

[Canuck21]

Originally Posted by Beast

Like Father, Like Son. It didn't help that his training was different from the other Jedis and having Palpatine whispering in his ear.

Luke is kind of whiny, but so much less. He was whiny like all teenagers are. Anakin is whiny in an all different level unmatched by others. I can't think of a whinier character than Anakin. I can't believe that this whiniest of them all became this cool, stoic Darth Vader. Perhaps Lucas couldn't believe it either so he had to add the "NOOOOooooo" to Vader to help us see the connection .

[HarcourtMudd]

Originally Posted by jukteen

Oh and one more thing.. which order do you guys suggest I watch these in? OT and then the prequels or prequels and then the OT?

There are many camps of thought on this one (entire threads have been devoted to this one question), so here is my take: 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6

My reasoning is that this introduces Vader properly (IMO), and preserves the Luke/Vader dynamic (as revealed at the end of Empire). It also leaves us with a cliff-hanger, while we then divert to the "this is how it all happened" flash-back (non-linear storytelling works better than a straight-through telling in this case - also IMO). Then the whole thing is capped off with the climax to the whole affair: Return of the Jedi. Just my 2 cents...

[HylianBowcaster]

Originally Posted by HarcourtMudd

There are many camps of thought on this one (entire threads have been devoted to this one question), so here is my take: 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6

My reasoning is that this introduces Vader properly (IMO), and preserves the Luke/Vader dynamic (as revealed at the end of Empire). It also leaves us with a cliff-hanger, while we then divert to the "this is how it all happened" flash-back (non-linear storytelling works better than a straight-through telling in this case - also IMO). Then the whole thing is capped off with the climax to the whole affair: Return of the Jedi. Just my 2 cents...

I would agree with this layout too, if it wasn't for the fact that I think most people already know about the Vader/Luke relationship, I believe its pretty common knowledge nowadays.

[happydood]

I think ultimately the best way is the order of release for me, even though I now watch them I-VI. I'll show my daughter IV-VI and then I-III.

These films are so ingrained in me, that it doesn't really matter what order I watch them in. But I really love the idea of watching them in order of release so you can see the progression of George Lucas as an artist- in that I love the operatic quality of Episode III being the last one. He started with such a fun idealistic punch in the face with Star Wars and ended with such a cynical punch in the gut with Episode III. And I remember thinking when I left the theater after Ep III for the first time how wonderfully he shut a lot of naysayers up with such a bold statement.

[HarcourtMudd]

Originally Posted by HylianBowcaster

I would agree with this layout too, if it wasn't for the fact that I think most people already know about the Vader/Luke relationship, I believe its pretty common knowledge nowadays.

True. This is the order I introduced my son to the saga (before I showed him the unmolested OT, that is...)

[double_l4488]

Originally Posted by Canuck21

What?!? I sure didn't expected Anakin to be a cold-blooded killer from the start; that would be boring and one-dimentional. A multi-layered character is so much more interesting. The problem is I didn't expect Anakin to be so freaking whiny.

Well Luke was the same way, and Anakin was not in episode iii.

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I disagree. While many diehard "Force addicts" would love to see the original versions restored, I think a lot of the fans don't care too much. Sure, having the option would be nice, but who besides those with an unreasonable "Lucas owes me" chip on their shoulder have cried foul? We all have opinions, but in the end, Lucas owns "Star Wars" outright, and as such, he's free to do what he likes...whether any of us like it or not. No amount of whining and complaining, online or not, will change that; in fact, its precisely because of such cruelty that Lucas has retreated; he's sick of selfish idiots demanding their way. He worked most of his professional life, trying to gain freedom to tell his stories his own way, only to have some repeatedly and hatefully condemn him personally for it.

And, just so we're clear, I'm not some obsessed "Lucas worshiper", either. There's some of his choices I don't agree with, but they're (mostly) minor compared to everything else in the series. I was born the year "Empire" came out, and grew up with the OT on VHS, like many of my generation. However, I didn't have a ton of expectations for what the prequels should've been, and overall, I think he did a great job. How and why anyone expected Anakin to be a cold-blooded killer from the start is beyond me.

There is nothing minor about what Lucas has done to the OT. Adding Jabba the hutt, dance sequence, and changing the dynamic of characters, like han. These are not minor, they all suck.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Well said, MF2K4. This sums it up. Although I feel that they *could* have included the untouched originals in such an epic box set it isnt hurting my enjoyment at all. For the zillionth time - some of the changes are WELCOMED by most fans and the effects clean-ups were badly needed. Only a few things here and there kind of stink but it doesnt "ruin anyones childhood" Thats so dumb to say.

As much as I swear to stay out of arguing about Star Wars to myself, I always end up feeling compelled to say something

While I understand the Saga sells well because people want their Star Wars on Blu-Ray, and I can't speak for all fans, but I never get the impression that a lot of people actually LIKE the Special Editions. I'm betting they either tolerate them or aren't into the films enough to really know the difference. That's not to say NOBODY prefers them, there's proof enough of that on these kind of discussion boards about the films, but you get what I mean (hopefully).

I wish that Lucas had approached the Special Editions more like Ridley Scott did with Blade Runner: The Final Cut. Fixing FX mistakes or things that stand out badly is fine. Even some of the alterations I think were pretty good, like some of the X-Wing footage in the Battle of Yavin or some of the subtle stuff done to Empire. And that is the key word here: SUBTLE.

Too many alterations to the film are blatant, in-your-face, and usually stand out badly with the rest of the film. The best (or worst?) example of this is the Jedi Rocks scene in Return of the Jedi. While you can argue that the original scene wasn't great to begin with, it did what it was supposed to do, which was to quickly establish Jabba's palace as rowdy and full of excess. But the altered scene literally stops the story to give you a silly song and dance number.

Does it ruin my childhood? Well, no. Truthfully, I didn't even like Star Wars until I saw them on the "Faces" THX VHS tapes, which came out a mere two years before the Special Edition hit theaters. But I have no interest in watching the versions that are on the Blu-Ray, and I have decent fan-made transfers of the UOT on DVD. But man, I would love to watch those movies on Blu-Ray on my big projector-screen.

[happydood]

Originally Posted by double_l4488

Well Luke was the same way, and Anakin was not in episode iii.



There is nothing minor about what Lucas has done to the OT. Adding Jabba the hutt, dance sequence, and changing the dynamic of characters, like han. These are not minor, they all suck.

Well, that's the real rub. Folks are split right down the middle. The changes "all suck" or they're "minor."

In these kinds of situations, isn't the truth usually somewhere in between?

[worldwide11]

The lowry restorations look amazing, imo. The level of detail in the OT is outstanding. I'm sure there were problems, i.e., elimination of stars in space along with some noise, but overall, detail, color and contrast look excellent.

There are some serious problems with the CGI revisions, and the white levels are murky and blu-ish, but overall, the films look much better than I thought possible. Take a look at the godfather for example, a film from the same era; that print looks like it's been through a war, even after a frame by frame restoration and color timing.

The main problem lies with the PT; shot in HD, these films are never going to look much better than they do now on BR.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Canuck21

What?!? I sure didn't expected Anakin to be a cold-blooded killer from the start; that would be boring and one-dimentional. A multi-layered character is so much more interesting. The problem is I didn't expect Anakin to be so freaking whiny.

Well, in "Phantom Menace", he was suppposed to be immature. The character was a 9-year-old who'd been raised as a slave, and even at that age, you could see he had a chip on his shoulder. Plus, the one Jedi he trusted was killed shortly after, so he likely felt abandoned. Obi-Wan likely trained him much differently than Qui-Gon would have, and as he grew, Anakin became angry over the strict rules and being separated from his mother (probably seeming like a different form of slavery). By the time he finds her, its too late; she's been murdered, and he flies into a rage. After this, Palpatine starts increasing his influence, and because of his feelings that the Jedi Council are jealous of him, Anaking grows more detached and solitary. His only joy is in his love for Padme', but even that is put in jeopardy by his nightmares of her death. his fear of loss turns to desperation, and finally to a lust for power, which corrupts him for the worse. By this point, he's so emotional over everything, that his sense of objectivity is all but gone. His mind and spirit are essentially broken, and that makes him a perfect "puppet" for Palpatine. When he's injured and placed into the "iron lung", he resigns himself to living forever as a slave, all over again.

[nmycon]

Originally Posted by worldwide11

The main problem lies with the PT; shot in HD, these films are never going to look much better than they do now on BR.

Why is Lucas so obsessed with shooting digitally again?

Didn't he even try to convince Speilberg to shoo Indy 4 digitally and add digital grain later?

Doesn't make sense to me either. If there's anyone who doesn't need to worry about the extra money involved in shooting film over digital, its George...

[Beast]

Originally Posted by nmycon

Why is Lucas so obsessed with shooting digitally again?

Didn't he even try to convince Speilberg to shoo Indy 4 digitally and add digital grain later?

Doesn't make sense to me either. If there's anyone who doesn't need to worry about the extra money involved in shooting film over digital, its George...

It's about advancing the technology of filmmaking. Just like it was when he made the original Star Wars.

Why do you think he's always pushing the advancement of technology? From the motion controlled camera to CGI to Digital Cameras.

[AlexSing]

Originally Posted by Beast

It's about advancing the technology of filmmaking. Just like it was when he made the original Star Wars.

Why do you think he's always pushing the advancement of technology? From the motion controlled camera to CGI to Digital Cameras.

Did he shoot digitally to really advance the technology of filmmaking or as a means to more seamlessly introduce CGI? Was he actually a pioneer of digital film?

Maybe you'd argue they are one in the same

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by happydood

Well, that's the real rub. Folks are split right down the middle. The changes "all suck" or they're "minor."

In these kinds of situations, isn't the truth usually somewhere in between?

I think you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

[worldwide11]

A very dubious premise, at best, on the part of Lucas. I was watching "emulsional rescue" and they state that the resolution of analog film is at least 4K, and is probably closer to 5K or 6K. George shot in 2K HD. In other words, it was a drastic decrease in resolution. Film is also much less expensive to store; HD storage is much more expensive. Perhaps shooting in HD made the use of CGI much more convenient; if so, this convenience came at a high price in terms of maximum resolution.

Originally Posted by Beast

It's about advancing the technology of filmmaking. Just like it was when he made the original Star Wars.

Why do you think he's always pushing the advancement of technology? From the motion controlled camera to CGI to Digital Cameras.

[Coov]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Well, in "Phantom Menace", he was suppposed to be immature. The character was a 9-year-old who'd been raised as a slave, and even at that age, you could see he had a chip on his shoulder.

"Yippee!!!"

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Plus, the one Jedi he trusted was killed shortly after, so he likely felt abandoned.

"You're a Jedi Too? Pleased to meet you!"

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Obi-Wan likely trained him much differently than Qui-Gon would have, and as he grew, Anakin became angry over the strict rules and being separated from his mother (probably seeming like a different form of slavery).

"I hate sand... It gets everywhere."

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

By the time he finds her, its too late; she's been murdered, and he flies into a rage.

I'd say more of a temper tantrum. Rage would have been cool!

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

His only joy is in his love for Padme', but even that is put in jeopardy by his nightmares of her death. his fear of loss turns to desperation, and finally to a lust for power, which corrupts him for the worse.

Superman couldn't make that leap.

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

By this point, he's so emotional over everything, that his sense of objectivity is all but gone. His mind and spirit are essentially broken, and that makes him a perfect "puppet" for Palpatine. When he's injured and placed into the "iron lung", he resigns himself to living forever as a slave, all over again.

Too bad that wasn't captured on film... er, em... I mean pixels.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

As much as I swear to stay out of arguing about Star Wars to myself, I always end up feeling compelled to say something

While I understand the Saga sells well because people want their Star Wars on Blu-Ray, and I can't speak for all fans, but I never get the impression that a lot of people actually LIKE the Special Editions. I'm betting they either tolerate them or aren't into the films enough to really know the difference. That's not to say NOBODY prefers them, there's proof enough of that on these kind of discussion boards about the films, but you get what I mean (hopefully).

I wish that Lucas had approached the Special Editions more like Ridley Scott did with Blade Runner: The Final Cut. Fixing FX mistakes or things that stand out badly is fine. Even some of the alterations I think were pretty good, like some of the X-Wing footage in the Battle of Yavin or some of the subtle stuff done to Empire. And that is the key word here: SUBTLE.

Too many alterations to the film are blatant, in-your-face, and usually stand out badly with the rest of the film. The best (or worst?) example of this is the Jedi Rocks scene in Return of the Jedi. While you can argue that the original scene wasn't great to begin with, it did what it was supposed to do, which was to quickly establish Jabba's palace as rowdy and full of excess. But the altered scene literally stops the story to give you a silly song and dance number.

Does it ruin my childhood? Well, no. Truthfully, I didn't even like Star Wars until I saw them on the "Faces" THX VHS tapes, which came out a mere two years before the Special Edition hit theaters. But I have no interest in watching the versions that are on the Blu-Ray, and I have decent fan-made transfers of the UOT on DVD. But man, I would love to watch those movies on Blu-Ray on my big projector-screen.

There is no doubt that some of the changes are irritating - such as the ones you brought up. Im with ya 100% there. However, there enough positives mixed in that Im willing to take the good with the bad. Not everyone is. Thats cool too.

This really about being to able to accept changes you dont care for and enjoying the ones you do. If you can get past the nagging changes, like Jabba @ Mos Eisley or the new barge dance number, then the other edits arent so bad. If all of it really irks ya or you cannot ignore the lame changes, then I can respect that as well.