Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Coov]

Originally Posted by Monkey_Boy

It's not about "unconditional love"...

That's cool. Unconditional love was a sarcastic way to let many in here know that I am not pointing my question directly at anyone in particular, though there have been a few in here that would fall under that category. It is a fun and sarcastic question.

I would actually be 100% "pro any changes George wanted to make" as long as the version I grew up with was available as well. It is being worked on, even if it isn't by Lucas, so I am not so irritated as I once was.

[klauswhereareyou]

The problem with Jedi Rocks is that the music is grating and it totally brings the film to a halt. Notice how they did it in the original cut, just a few seconds of close-ups of singing, a few seconds of dancing, dancer struggles with Jabba, falls in pit, the end. Now we've got it extended to a minute and it just breaks up the flow of the story, nevermind that the music is awful as well as the effects. Nothing is added other than poorly done music and effects that really draw attention to how bad they are by singing and looking directly at the film audience. It's poor film making, and it's strange that a guy would go back and try to fix a scene by making it even worse.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Coov

People come in here because it is pretty entertaining. This back and forth has been going on for more than 2 years. What the Mods are doing is taking this "game" and picking and choosing which plays count, and which ones don't.

Sounds fair.

Back to my very fair question that got deleted...

What would need to happen for those who unconditionally love the PT and OT: SE to turn their back on George?

A "JarJar Rocks" music segment?
Chewie gets pants?
An Elmo cameo?
Replace blasters with flashlights?
CGI product placement?

As Monkey Boy said (well, that's a sentence I never thought I'd type ), it isn't about unconditional love, but about respecting Lucas as an author, or director who's allowed to make changes to his movies. And even though I disagree with the changes Lucas made, I do agree that a director must be allowed to change the movie into his vision, or be able to change his mind after he has released it. Personally, I just think that he also should make the original versions better. And that should be the case with most movies that have been altered, since most times, there's someone who prefers the original version from the director's cut. And of course, also because it was the one that was released first.
And also, for all their flaws, I still like the prequels. I just choose not to buy the Blu-ray set because the original versions of the OT weren't included (as were the original versions of the PT, by the way) and Episode I was DNR'ed too much for my liking. I also didn't like the leaving out of bonus material, especially when there was much more video shot during the prequels.

[SomeFilmBuff]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

As Monkey Boy said (well, that's a sentence I never thought I'd type ), it isn't about unconditional love, but about respecting Lucas as an author, or director who's allowed to make changes to his movies. And even though I disagree with the changes Lucas made, I do agree that a director must be allowed to change the movie into his vision, or be able to change his mind after he has released it. Personally, I just think that he also should make the original versions better. And that should be the case with most movies that have been altered, since most times, there's someone who prefers the original version from the director's cut. And of course, also because it was the one that was released first.
And also, for all their flaws, I still like the prequels. I just choose not to buy the Blu-ray set because the original versions of the OT weren't included (as were the original versions of the PT, by the way) and Episode I was DNR'ed too much for my liking. I also didn't like the leaving out of bonus material, especially when there was much more video shot during the prequels.

I share your sentiments as well but in my case:

-I enjoy the PT as much as the originals
-I want the original theatrical versions, as well as the original Special Editions
-Will wait sometime after 2017 when they release the last Star Wars movie in 3D (if they continue to do so, that is) if they come up with a release that hopefully contains the original and untainted Special Editions (wishful thinking).

[The Apocalypse]

I'd have liked a special Blu release, like a Limited Edition tin or something. The more I thought about it, the more suprised I became at the fact that they didn't release something like that. I do also echo others' sentiments about the originals, the original Specials, and the current version, but am happy overall, so far.

As for 3D, anybody reckon they'll still do them? I read after the initial announcement of all 6, that they'd wait and see how much TPM raked in before they continued.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

The problem with Jedi Rocks is that the music is grating and it totally brings the film to a halt. Notice how they did it in the original cut, just a few seconds of close-ups of singing, a few seconds of dancing, dancer struggles with Jabba, falls in pit, the end. Now we've got it extended to a minute and it just breaks up the flow of the story, nevermind that the music is awful as well as the effects. Nothing is added other than poorly done music and effects that really draw attention to how bad they are by singing and looking directly at the film audience. It's poor film making, and it's strange that a guy would go back and try to fix a scene by making it even worse.

Totally agree.

[monkeyjb1988]

Originally Posted by Monkey_Boy

It's not about "unconditional love". It's just that most of the changes don't bother me. I mean, I don't like Greedo shooting first (ANH), not because of some character issue, but just because it doesn't look right. (Although, it does look alot better on the BD.) I don't like seeing the Wampa eating (TESB), that costume looks like crap. And I hate, HATE the beak in the Sarlacc Pit (ROTJ). However, the other changes aren't that big of a deal. They're only seconds long or in the background.

I honestly could not believe that a poster's wife screamed the entire time during the "Jedi Rocks" scene. It isn't that long (my kids love that part anyway), and it leads right into the Rancor scene. So it's not like it suddenly pops in and pops out for no reason. They gave us an actual song for Oola to dance to before she died her horrible death. No big deal to me. Never could understand the extreme hatred toward Lucas because the story is still the same. I've been into "Star Wars" since I was a small child for its epic story. (I'd skip school just so I'd be home alone to watch all 3 movies of the OT in a row without my brother, sister and mother complaining!) Not a single CGI addition has taken anything away from the plot or the awesomeness that is the "Star Wars" Saga! Not for me anyway.

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

As Monkey Boy said (well, that's a sentence I never thought I'd type ), it isn't about unconditional love, but about respecting Lucas as an author, or director who's allowed to make changes to his movies. And even though I disagree with the changes Lucas made, I do agree that a director must be allowed to change the movie into his vision, or be able to change his mind after he has released it. Personally, I just think that he also should make the original versions better. And that should be the case with most movies that have been altered, since most times, there's someone who prefers the original version from the director's cut. And of course, also because it was the one that was released first.
And also, for all their flaws, I still like the prequels. I just choose not to buy the Blu-ray set because the original versions of the OT weren't included (as were the original versions of the PT, by the way) and Episode I was DNR'ed too much for my liking. I also didn't like the leaving out of bonus material, especially when there was much more video shot during the prequels.

I agree with both of you. People are taking the changes way out of proportion and it's annoying. I want the originals too, but the story didn't get changed, just some of the elements. They're still great movies.

[kenkraly2004]

Originally Posted by monkeyjb1988

I agree with both of you. People are taking the changes way out of proportion and it's annoying. I want the originals too, but the story didn't get changed, just some of the elements. They're still great movies.

Agreed their still great movies and the changes to the films did not change the story at all it made the films better but some don't agree. I would like the original cut's of the OT on blu-ray too but again it's not a issue for me. Their are a lot of fans taking the changes made to the films way out of proportion. Sure not everyone is going to agree with the changes GL has made to the films. I don't agree with some of the changes done to the films too but it does not make my enjoyment of the films any less because I enjoy all 6 films. For me though The Special Editions and the Prequel films did not hurt the star wars series it made it better some might not agree but for me it did.

[Coov]

Originally Posted by kenkraly2004

The Special Editions and the Prequel films did not hurt the star wars series it made it better some might not agree but for me it did.

The prequels are easy enough to ignore if you feel the need to do so. Keep in mind with Lucas refusing to release the OOT every change (good or bad) is tainting further what some of us truly want.

At this point it really does not matter (to me anyway) what he adds or changes.

[NYorker]

Another way of looking at this release is comparing it to software updates - in this case, I would compare it to Windows Vista

I don't consider myself a "Lucas basher" - just very disappointed that a) he didn't go all-out on this release as he could (and should) have
b) he could make changes till the cows come to Tatooin - but at least give us a choice...

After all, if Lucas really wanted to make those changes, why did he wait all these years? Why didn't he add the changes in '97? why didn't he add Vader's "d'oooooh!" in 2004?

What I really hope is that he didn't make these changes on purpose just so that in the next release he'll take them out or offer the OT, and then we'll all hail him for "coming to his senses."

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by monkeyjb1988

I agree with both of you. People are taking the changes way out of proportion and it's annoying. I want the originals too, but the story didn't get changed, just some of the elements. They're still great movies.

Well, that's where I have to disagree with you. I didn't want my post to be too harsh on Lucas, but I very much disagree with every change he made. But, I do think he should be able to make those changes, even if I loathe them. All I really ask is the original versions on Blu-ray, he can do with the Special Editions whatever he wants.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Coov

The prequels are easy enough to ignore if you feel the need to do so. Keep in mind with Lucas refusing to release the OOT every change (good or bad) is tainting further what some of us truly want.

At this point it really does not matter (to me anyway) what he adds or changes.

I agree. The level of how the changes affect the films will vary from person to person, but for me, it has gotten too ridiculous. I tolerated everything up to the DVD editions, but a key change he made to the Blu-Ray version of RotJ ("NOOOOO!") was the step too far. At this point, the original versions are the films to me, and I'm sticking with dvds of those until a better option comes up.

[Starpower67]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I agree. The level of how the changes affect the films will vary from person to person, but for me, it has gotten too ridiculous. I tolerated everything up to the DVD editions, but a key change he made to the Blu-Ray version of RotJ ("NOOOOO!") was the step too far. At this point, the original versions are the films to me, and I'm sticking with dvds of those until a better option comes up.

I couldn't agree more!

[BladeRunner2007]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

If I had kids they would have to learn of the prequels on the streets.

Haha. They aren't that bad imo. I mean Episode II is pretty bad. But III is a good movie despite some obvious flaws and Episode I.... well, I came to like that movie a lot lately. I don't know why but Episode I is actually a pretty good movie, although it has its flaws.

[EddieLarkin]

One of my most hated changes is the pointless and terrible CGI looking Jabba scene in Star Wars. Luckily though, the chapter stops are right at the start and end of the scene on the Blu-ray, and so as soon as the scene starts I hit >>|

I always feel like I'm giving Lucas the finger when I do that. Feels good man.

That's really the only change in Star Wars I hate, Greedo shooting first is too quick for me to get really upset about, and so I can handle watching it. Nothing much was changed in Empire, I think the extra Wampa stuff was one of the few improvements. The only thing I intensely dislike is the new Emperor hologram and dialogue. Unfortunately Return of the Jedi is too messed up. Between the Jedi Rocks scene, the force ghost, the "Noooo!", Naboo scene, stupid blinking Ewoks, I just can't take it (I actually prefer the new ending Ewok song though >_>). It all completely changes my level of enjoyment.

[Starpower67]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

One of my most hated changes is the pointless and terrible CGI looking Jabba scene in Star Wars. Luckily though, the chapter stops are right at the start and end of the scene on the Blu-ray, and so as soon as the scene starts I hit >>|

I always feel like I'm giving Lucas the finger when I do that. Feels good man.

That's really the only change in Star Wars I hate, Greedo shooting first is too quick for me to get really upset about, and so I can handle watching it. Nothing much was changed in Empire, I think the extra Wampa stuff was one of the few improvements. The only thing I intensely dislike is the new Emperor hologram and dialogue. Unfortunately Return of the Jedi is too messed up. Between the Jedi Rocks scene, the force ghost, the "Noooo!", Naboo scene, stupid blinking Ewoks, I just can't take it (I actually prefer the new ending Ewok song though >_>). It all completely changes my level of enjoyment.

Yeah Return of the Jedi definitley suffers the most from the SE. Imo it actually gives the movie a completely different vibe and tone. Especially since the last thing you see in the movie is drastically changed from the original.

[Monkey_Boy]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

...Naboo scene...

You mean that 5 second shot at the end of the movie? Really? Not trying to dog on ya, but such a quick scene with a gungan saying "Weesa free!" affects your level of enjoyment?

Well, I just completed the PT with my son and found that there is a shocking revelation to those unfamiliar with the OT:

[Show spoiler]Palpatine is the Sith Lord and Anakin turns to The Dark Side!

My son was quite surprised at this development! I mean, jaw dropped and shocked was the expression on his face! Like this: Or maybe more like this: I went into "TPM" in '99 knowing who Palps was because I had read the novelization of "A New Hope" and it mentions his name. Also, I'd always known Ani was destined to become Vader (as most people were, I'm sure). My son, however, had no idea. I gotta say that this was probably a bigger reveal than Luke (and the world) finding out Vader was his father!

We're having a great time so far. We actually watched the original Tartakovsky Clone Wars 'toons inbetween Eps. II & III, which is still pretty damn awesome in and of itself! Yep, my boy is loving it and can't wait to get to the OT for the Star Destroyers and Death Stars. Mostly 'cuz he built a Star Destroyer of his very own outta Legos :

[Show spoiler]

Yeah, he's seen the OT before, but like with most people, connecting the two when they watch them backwards (4,5,6,1,2,3 like most people 'round here say to) makes it difficult to comprehend what's going on. I remember watching "TPM" with my mother and she kept thinking little Ani was Luke! Just as Quincy (my son) couldn't connect that Anakin and Darth Vader were one and the same. He now fully understands, and I'm sure the ending of "ROTJ" will be more satisfying for him now that he knows who is behind the mask and how he got there. Oh, to be in his shoes!

I haveta type that these movies look and sound fantastic! In spite of the heavy DNR on the humans in "TPM", the aliens look incredibly detailed! These really are some beautiful motion pictures.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Starpower67

Yeah Return of the Jedi definitley suffers the most from the SE. Imo it actually gives the movie a completely different vibe and tone. Especially since the last thing you see in the movie is drastically changed from the original.

I agree that Jedi SE is the most changed of the OT but I think I would replace 'suffers' with 'benefits'.

I was twentyish when Jedi was released and I really didn't like it. I wouldn't exactly say I like the BD version but with the notable exception of the silly Nooo (my main objection here is that GL 'fixed' one of the few parts of Jedi that worked from the beginning) I do think it's by and large better. Sure part of that is just changing expectations and coming to terms with it just being what it is. But it's also a bit better.

I can live with Hayden (though his child molester expression really is pretty creepy) and actually very much like the closing montage and really, really, really like that they scrapped Yub Nub. God, that was awful.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by octagon

I agree that Jedi SE is the most changed of the OT but I think I would replace 'suffers' with 'benefits'.

I was twentyish when Jedi was released and I really didn't like it. I wouldn't exactly say I like the BD version but with the notable exception of the silly Nooo (my main objection here is that GL 'fixed' one of the few parts of Jedi that worked from the beginning) I do think it's by and large better. Sure part of that is just changing expectations and coming to terms with it just being what it is. But it's also a bit better.

I can live with Hayden (though his child molester expression really is pretty creepy) and actually very much like the closing montage and really, really, really like that they scrapped Yub Nub. God, that was awful.

ROTJ was already fatally compromised from the outset by Lucas' focus on pandering to kiddies and merchandising over the actual story (e.g. Salacious Crumb and the Ewoks, among other things). The replacement of "Lapti Nek" with "Jedi Rocks", the incongruous appearance of Emo Vader as a Force ghost, and the infamous "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" only served to make Lucas' failure complete.

[Starpower67]

Originally Posted by octagon

I agree that Jedi SE is the most changed of the OT but I think I would replace 'suffers' with 'benefits'.

I was twentyish when Jedi was released and I really didn't like it. I wouldn't exactly say I like the BD version but with the notable exception of the silly Nooo (my main objection here is that GL 'fixed' one of the few parts of Jedi that worked from the beginning) I do think it's by and large better. Sure part of that is just changing expectations and coming to terms with it just being what it is. But it's also a bit better.

I can live with Hayden (though his child molester expression really is pretty creepy) and actually very much like the closing montage and really, really, really like that they scrapped Yub Nub. God, that was awful.

Well there is obviously a lot of people on this thread that likes the SE. I am just not one of them. The only time I think they have improved the films is maybe some explosion shots. I am not sure what you are refering to when you say he made the movie better, but I would say are opinions on the matter differ. Except I agree that the nooo was awful, and the final thing that made me decide not to buy the blu-rays. I don't like the other changes, but to change the climax that the entire OT built up to. To something so cheesy and over the top was just too much for me.

I guess this issue will constantly go in circles since there will always be people who like the changes and defend lucas, and those who hate the changes. There are extremes on both sides, and I will say both sides probably go to far to defend there point. Personal attacks are never neccisary.