Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by JoshKelhoffer

I never did care for Anakin's portrayal as a force ghost in either edition. In both versions, he's there smiling. After a couple decades worth of horrible things, he is redeemed by killing Palpatine. Yet, I think he should be feeling guilty and somewhat sickened by his actions of the past couple decades. And he doesn't deserve to be standing next to Yoda and Obi Wan.

It's a rather superficial moment.

Yes so unlike the previous scene with Sebastian Shaw who is not smilling and is so sad for what he had done as Darth Vader the previous 20 years

[Beast]

Considering Obi-Wan and Yoda help Anakin transition into the Force... I don't think they mind him being there.

[whbinder]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Yes so unlike the previous scene with Sebastian Shaw who is not smilling and is so sad for what he had done as Darth Vader the previous 20 years

I believe that's why he said he didn't like either version of that scene.

[ChipmunksDad]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

DarkDune,

Um, no. Even Lucas has said that he won't make Yoda digital in Episodes V and VI. They will remain in puppet form.

The only reason Yoda wasn't digital in Episode I was because ILM didn't think they could nail him perfectly. Even Oz wanted Lucas to do Yoda digitally in Episode I. Between all the other stuff they had to create from scratch from a visual effects standpoint, I understand why Lucas just did a puppet. Yoda would've been too hard.

I also expect that the matte paintings in Episode II to get an upgrade. Considering that was the first film they shot digitally all the way through, some of the matte paintings, even for 2002, weren't up to par in that film. I expect some of those to be redone.

Honestly, I just don't see him doing that much work on the originals in this set. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the majority of the work is done on the prequels. I think the originals will be tinkered with to fix the color timing and other effects that they never got around to or screwed up in the '04 editions. But, to expect more enhancements that are totally new compared to the '04 boxset? I don't see it.

Agreed on some of the touch ups on the second trilogy. CGI has advanced enough that the opening sequence and some clone trooper scenes on Episode 3 could be make less - "cartoonish".

Having the originals would be a nice touch, but its also possible we wouldn't like the outcome visually. Ironically, the people that complain about the SE version would be the first to complain about cell overlap shadows not being touched up in the original trilogy. The originals are gone, more due to the fact that special effects pre 1990 tranfered to blue ray don't really look all that great. They have to be touched up, which may even require scene replacement. Drab backgrounds look even worse.

You don't like it? No one says you have to like it or buy it for that matter (even though you will declare that you haven't - because anyone that finatic about Star Wars is going to buy it.).

Its not our film anyway, it belongs to Lucas. Put me into the "clean it all up" and if you have to "expand the film" category. Because this fan want's more of the story, not less.

Moving on.

[JoshKelhoffer]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

You haven't seen them in a while, have you?

He sacrificed his life to do good, and destroyed the most evil man in the universe.

I don't know about you, but I'd say that's as much as anyone could do.

Hacking himself to pieces, or chocking himself as he did his victims would have been rather ridiculous, don't you think?

The scene works fine for me.

One good deed doesn't discount a thousand evil ones. If so, then that's a rather lousy lesson.

He had his chance to do the right thing decades ago. Instead, he chose to kill children, set forth in motion the murder of countless jedi, and do such evils for decades. He was present when an entire planet of people were destroyed.

This goes back to the foolish religious notion that if a child rapist/murderer goes to prison and prays like hell on his death bed, he therefore goes to heaven. A rather outlandish notion.

Vader makes one good decision in a couple decades and all of a sudden, his character is 100% redeemed and smiling next to Obi Wan and Yoda IN BOTH VERSIONS. That is what makes the moment superficial. The scene is all about feeling, not story or character.

Also, this whole excuse that younger Anakin appears as a force ghost because that was when he was good makes little to no sense either. Once again, it is like Ted Bundy went to heaven because when he was younger, he was a 'good' person, but then killed a whole bunch of people, and prayed like hell on his death bed. So his crimes against humanity don't matter

[JoshKelhoffer]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Yes so unlike the previous scene with Sebastian Shaw who is not smilling and is so sad for what he had done as Darth Vader the previous 20 years

My original post:

I never did care for Anakin's portrayal as a force ghost in either edition. In both versions, he's there smiling. After a couple decades worth of horrible things, he is redeemed by killing Palpatine. Yet, I think he should be feeling guilty and somewhat sickened by his actions of the past couple decades. And he doesn't deserve to be standing next to Yoda and Obi Wan.

It's a rather superficial moment.


Hmmmm.....

[Chiyo_chichi]

Originally Posted by JoshKelhoffer

One good deed doesn't discount a thousand evil ones. If so, then that's a rather lousy lesson.

He had his chance to do the right thing decades ago. Instead, he chose to kill children, set forth in motion the murder of countless jedi, and do such evils for decades. He was present when an entire planet of people were destroyed.

This goes back to the foolish religious notion that if a child rapist/murderer goes to prison and prays like hell on his death bed, he therefore goes to heaven. A rather outlandish notion.

Vader makes one good decision in a couple decades and all of a sudden, his character is 100% redeemed and smiling next to Obi Wan and Yoda IN BOTH VERSIONS. That is what makes the moment superficial. The scene is all about feeling, not story or character.

Also, this whole excuse that younger Anakin appears as a force ghost because that was when he was good makes little to no sense either. Once again, it is like Ted Bundy went to heaven because when he was younger, he was a 'good' person, but then killed a whole bunch of people, and prayed like hell on his death bed. So his crimes against humanity don't matter

You're taking it way too seriously. But first, in some societies (Amish) they do practice complete forgiveness. A person can be a murderer or a rapist, but if they are repentant the may be welcomed back into society and be forgiven, whether you individually may never do.

Further more, no one is excusing Vader for what he did. He's dead (fictional character...way too serious here). He will be remembered in the galaxy (could use a beer here ) as one of the greatest scourges of all time. But at least in the eyes of his son he was able to momentarily redeem himself and set things right.

In Star Wars mythology there are very little shades of gray, at least in the films. Its heavy handed black and white, good and evil. And at the end, this evil character redeems himself before he dies, saving his own son. It's a good moment. The first in a long time. Only Luke knows this, the rest of the galaxy will revile him forever.

[Beast]

Correct. Even Leia couldn't bring herself to forgive him. Even when he appeared to her in the EU.

She finally did at least honor him by naming one of her sons Anakin Solo. But then, that is EU which doesn't reaally count.

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by Chiyo_chichi

You're taking it way too seriously. But first, in some societies (Amish) they do practice complete forgiveness. A person can be a murderer or a rapist, but if they are repentant the may be welcomed back into society and be forgiven, whether you individually may never do.

Further more, no one is excusing Vader for what he did. He's dead (fictional character...way too serious here). He will be remembered in the galaxy (could use a beer here ) as one of the greatest scourges of all time. But at least in the eyes of his son he was able to momentarily redeem himself and set things right.

In Star Wars mythology there are very little shades of gray, at least in the films. Its heavy handed black and white, good and evil. And at the end, this evil character redeems himself before he dies, saving his own son. It's a good moment. The first in a long time. Only Luke knows this, the rest of the galaxy will revile him forever.

Well said Chiyo!

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by JoshKelhoffer

One good deed doesn't discount a thousand evil ones. If so, then that's a rather lousy lesson.

He had his chance to do the right thing decades ago. Instead, he chose to kill children, set forth in motion the murder of countless jedi, and do such evils for decades. He was present when an entire planet of people were destroyed.

This goes back to the foolish religious notion that if a child rapist/murderer goes to prison and prays like hell on his death bed, he therefore goes to heaven. A rather outlandish notion.

Vader makes one good decision in a couple decades and all of a sudden, his character is 100% redeemed and smiling next to Obi Wan and Yoda IN BOTH VERSIONS. That is what makes the moment superficial. The scene is all about feeling, not story or character.

Also, this whole excuse that younger Anakin appears as a force ghost because that was when he was good makes little to no sense either. Once again, it is like Ted Bundy went to heaven because when he was younger, he was a 'good' person, but then killed a whole bunch of people, and prayed like hell on his death bed. So his crimes against humanity don't matter

I see what you're saying, but in your religious example, there is a HUGE difference between actually being repentant and simply fearing the consequences of your actions before death. Darth Vader chose to reject the dark side and do good, which cost him his life, he didn't just start begging forgiveness before dying because he was afraid of eternal consequences or something.
Plus, if I understand correctly, the dark side clouds your mind, so you could almost argue he was under the influence of the dark side of the force while he was Vader. That's at least an argument you could make to explain why Anakin so abruptly goes from expressing regret at helping kill Mace Windu to Jedi children massacre (I would argue sloppy writing, but thats just me )

[JoshKelhoffer]

Originally Posted by Chiyo_chichi

You're taking it way too seriously. But first, in some societies (Amish) they do practice complete forgiveness. A person can be a murderer or a rapist, but if they are repentant the may be welcomed back into society and be forgiven, whether you individually may never do.

Further more, no one is excusing Vader for what he did. He's dead (fictional character...way too serious here). He will be remembered in the galaxy (could use a beer here ) as one of the greatest scourges of all time. But at least in the eyes of his son he was able to momentarily redeem himself and set things right.

In Star Wars mythology there are very little shades of gray, at least in the films. Its heavy handed black and white, good and evil. And at the end, this evil character redeems himself before he dies, saving his own son. It's a good moment. The first in a long time. Only Luke knows this, the rest of the galaxy will revile him forever.

Not really. In order to find a story gripping and compelling, one must relate to the characters and the stories and take it "seriously" for the couple of hours the story is told. There is a difference between taking something seriously, and believing it to be fact. One of my favorite quotes/exchanges: "It's only a movie." "Yeah, but I still want it to be good."

I'm ok with Vader redeeming himself, but I feel that the last shot of his character should have been Luke torching his body. I think him smiling next to Yoda and Obi Wan is a bit too much. It's like that song "Don't worry, be happy." It's so stinkin' happy, it's annoying. Even worse, Hayden's smirk reminds me of a cocky teenager who "got off the hook."

And motorheadache, yes it is sloppy writing. I never cared for the moment you mentioned. In seconds, he is like "what have I done" to "I will do whatever you say." I never once bought he would actually killed children. Nor do I think the implications were that his mind was clouded by the darkside. I believe the idea was that he just wanted to have the ability (as promised by Palpatine) to save Padme and was willing to lie to himself to justify his actions. Some of the things he says before his fight with Obi Wan come across as somebody who is convince himself that he was justified.

But still, "The Force" and "The dark side clouds this and that" has been the "answer" to every single plot hole and inconsistency that has happened in the series.

[drichter33]

Originally Posted by ChipmunksDad

Agreed on some of the touch ups on the second trilogy. CGI has advanced enough that the opening sequence and some clone trooper scenes on Episode 3 could be make less - "cartoonish".

Having the originals would be a nice touch, but its also possible we wouldn't like the outcome visually. Ironically, the people that complain about the SE version would be the first to complain about cell overlap shadows not being touched up in the original trilogy. The originals are gone, more due to the fact that special effects pre 1990 tranfered to blue ray don't really look all that great. They have to be touched up, which may even require scene replacement. Drab backgrounds look even worse.

You don't like it? No one says you have to like it or buy it for that matter (even though you will declare that you haven't - because anyone that finatic about Star Wars is going to buy it.).

Its not our film anyway, it belongs to Lucas. Put me into the "clean it all up" and if you have to "expand the film" category. Because this fan want's more of the story, not less.

Moving on.

Problem is, and I agree- clean it up and give it more story that contributes something valuable. Lucas isnt doing that- he is tinkering and making changes like removing songs, changing dialog, adding creatures to backgrounds. I cant think of one thing he did that actually "added to the story or expanded it." I dont have the list of changes memorizied, but the only qualified added scene that I remember is the Jabba with Han sequence.

Other items like adding anakin at end of jedi, changing the jabba palace song and Endor celebration song, greedo shooting first (or however it is now), the emperors dialog in vaders chamber in Empire, extra monsters and jawas in mos eisley when luke and obi wan arrive, wampa eating flesh in Empire, etc.
I wouldnt say any of that adds story, just changes things. Things that in most opinions were fine as is.

I am one that would in some ridiculous fantasy universe like the ability to have all 3 or now rumored 4 versions of the films (although i am not sure the Blu Release will include the supposed deleted scenes or any more tinkering). It could be way expensive, but I'd pay it. Instead he is investing all his time in
3D now? (dont get me started on this whole 3D craze and scam an confusion of the marketing that goes with it)

So for now, i'll just wait and wait till next x-mas, buy whatever crappy version on Blu Comes out, enjoy about 90% of the films that is still intact and cringe or fast forward through the other 10%. (i didnt figure into my %'s that I really have grown to dislike Ep 2 and parts of Ep 3. Ep 1 for some reason feels ok to me)

[tilallr1]

Originally Posted by JoshKelhoffer

But still, "The Force" and "The dark side clouds this and that" has been the "answer" to every single plot hole and inconsistency that has happened in the series.

Yoda himself clearly describes the pitfall of the Dark Side of the Force:

"Yes. A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."

Based on Yoda's description, once you start down the dark path, FOREVER will it dominate your destiny. Since Vader actually resisted and defeated the Dark Side of the Force and turned back to the light side of the force, he did what no one else has ever done. This in of itself totally redeemed him, since his will was so strong for the love of his son that he broke the bonds on the dark side. Plus, he destroyed the SITH, fulfilling his destiny set out by the force itself. So one might say that Anakin was not really at fault, but it was the force using hime to destroy the SITH and bring balance to the force.

[JoshKelhoffer]

He let his hatred, anger, and insecurities dominate his actions. His path to the dark side started in AOTC, where he slaughtered an entire camp of sand people, including the women and children. It ended when he helped Palpatine and accepted his role as an apprentice. Those were his actions, no matter the influence. He then continued to kill younglings.

Also note how you can see the gears in his head turning in both the scene where he descends from the dark side and in the scene where he saves his son. In both cases, he made his decisions.

Once again, this isn't my only criticism. I'd be fine and dandy with this (to a degree) if only the moment in question didn't look so damn silly, in both editions.

It's not my biggest criticism of ROTJ. Don't take it as if I hate the film or anything, but there are a few moments that make me cringe, like the "I'm with you too!" scene and the hammy scene outside the Ewok Village between Luke and Leia, made even worse by Han acting like a bumbling fool. The dance sequence. Of course, the Ewoks themselves... Now if Anakin has slaughtered those guys, I'd be fine with his ascension

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by tilallr1

Yoda himself clearly describes the pitfall of the Dark Side of the Force:

"Yes. A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."

Based on Yoda's description, once you start down the dark path, FOREVER will it dominate your destiny. Since Vader actually resisted and defeated the Dark Side of the Force and turned back to the light side of the force, he did what no one else has ever done. This in of itself totally redeemed him, since his will was so strong for the love of his son that he broke the bonds on the dark side. Plus, he destroyed the SITH, fulfilling his destiny set out by the force itself. So one might say that Anakin was not really at fault, but it was the force using hime to destroy the SITH and bring balance to the force.

Yes, and Jedi, who are supposed to be full of unconditional love and compassion. Anakin himself talks about this, although in twisted ways, to Padme on the civilian cruiser bringing them back to Naboo in AOTC.

Just like in Buddhism, a central theme of the Jedi is compassion, and therefore it would be childish and shallow of them to feel hatred towards Anakin after his redemption.

Spiritual beings, who have reached a higher level, don't think like the common man, who is full of jealousy, greed, ignorance, and so on, but see the big picture. Sure Darth Vader has brought great suffering to many people, but he also destroyed the Sith, and brought balance to the force.

I, for one, do not think that it's superficial writing, but rather deep, deeper than one might expect in a Hollywood movie.
Then again George Lucas' space opera has been misunderstood since the first one was released, hence the hatred towards the new ones.

May the force be with you.

[StereoMike]

I hope a Collector's Edition would include this:

[stevo4264]

Originally Posted by Stereomike

I hope a Collector's Edition would include this:

I WANT ONE

[Weirded Wonder]

Originally Posted by Stereomike

I hope a Collector's Edition would include this:

I wonder if Hardware Wars will ever make it to blu?
Or Closet Cases of the Nerd Kind...
Pork Lips Now!

[kenkraly2004]

Hello I'm new here I am happy that I will be able to see all 6 star wars films in full 1080p on PS3 finally. Long live star wars on blu-ray disc. Can't wait for the relese in fall of next year 2011. I just hope when the blu-rays of all the star wars films come out in fall 2011 that all of the errors and bugs from Episode IV A New Hope are fixed such as the missing force fanfare in the death star battle and also the voice tracks in A New Hope are fixed and consistent with the rest of the films. And by the way I am not like some of those fanboys like some on the net that complan about the whole un-alltered vs special edition versions of the classic trilogy and bash Lucas like some of the fans do.

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by Stereomike

I hope a Collector's Edition would include this:

Oh dear no! I do not need another one!