Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau

A chief complaint of some of my friends and family that didn't like TPM when it released (I was in HUGE fanyboy denial until Clones came out) was that they didn't like any of the characters.

It's understandable. When you loose someone like Ford's Solo or Fisher's spunky Leia, you better have a damn good replacement character and an actor to back it up. With Star Trek's first spinoff (TNG), this was one of the studio's major concerns. How can you replace that iconic trio and the absolute belief they had in their roles? Well, they couldn't, and a lot of people felt the new characters didn't hold up to the older ones. Eventually, Picard and his buddies prevailed as they grew on the audience, but with the SW prequels there wasn't a single character to love and very little of the fun that Ford brought in the original trilogy.

Acting is believing, and Ford believes in his characters. He doesn't recite lines and try to mimic facial expressions in an attempt to fool the audience. When he is Indiana Jones, he is Indiana Jones.

I watched all six movies recently with my girlfriend who had never seen any of them. She much preferred the originals and thought Ford and Fisher were definitely one reason why. Compare those two to Hayden and Portman. Ha.

And you're right. There's no attachment to the characters in the prequels.

[Geoff D]

That's a great point about TNG. They had 178 episodes to get it right, so that crew arguably ended up being more beloved than Kirk and Co., after what was a very shaky start. But Lucas only had three movies to get those characters right, so he needed to be right on the money - but he was a long way off.

I've heard it said that the criticism of Willow's Madmartigan as a Han Solo clone is what turned Lucas off of that type of character, and in doing so he removed the one character whose abrasive, sarcastic nature is able to circumvent the cardboard-stiff acting style that pervades Lucas' films. Without that guy puncturing the egos of those around him ("Yes, your highness-ness?" ), there's no fun to be had.

Anakin should've been the Han Solo of the sequels; a swaggering, arrogant hot-shot who's a hit with the ladies, instead of a brooding, glowering tosspot who talks about his dislike of sand. It would've made his fall much more powerful if the audience had, y'know, actually liked him.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I watched all six movies recently with my girlfriend who had never seen any of them. She much preferred the originals and thought Ford and Fisher were definitely one reason why. Compare those two to Hayden and Portman. Ha.

And you're right. There's no attachment to the characters in the prequels.

To be fair, I'd love to see a Obi-Wan spinoff with McGregor. I think he did wonderfully with what little he had to work with (especially once he got comfortable with the character by the last film). Given a good script and the right director, I think we could have one hell of a badass Obi-wan movie, and McGregor could make us fall back in love with Obi like we all once were back in '77.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's a great point about TNG. They had 178 episodes to get it right, so that crew arguably ended up being more beloved than Kirk and Co., after what was a very shaky start. But Lucas only had three movies to get those characters right, so he needed to be right on the money - but he was a long way off.

And had Clones been the return to form we were all hoping for, I could forgive much of Menace's failures. Unfortunately, Lucas had a very narrow vision and an obviously limited storytelling capacity by that point, and he had entrenched his ego with a team of yes men.

Oh well. This is all dust in the wind now.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Anakin should've been the Han Solo of the sequels; a swaggering, arrogant hot-shot who's a hit with the ladies, instead of a brooding, glowering tosspot who talks about his dislike of sand. It would've made his fall much more powerful if the audience had, y'know, actually liked him.

100% agreed.

[manunited1]

Honestly Ford has never taken acting seriously and has never cared much for it. He has also made it clear he gives zero shits about Star Wars or Han Solo. He just does his job and gets paid.

He has made It clear that he loves dr. Jones though...

But yes he does make the originals what they are with his slick casualness.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by manunited1

Honestly Ford has never taken acting seriously and has never cared much for it. He has also made it clear he gives zero shits about Star Wars or Han Solo. He just does his job and gets paid.

He has made It clear that he loves dr. Jones though...

But yes he does make the originals what they are with his slick casualness.

This is pure BS.

Harrison Ford: Inside the Actors Studio 250th Episode - YouTube

[stvn1974]

I don't think that Ford doesn't take acting seriously but I do get the feeling that he doesn't give a rat's ass about celebrity and being famous.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

i don't think that ford doesn't take acting seriously but i do get the feeling that he doesn't give a rat's ass about celebrity and being famous.

+1 and wow that's the first triple negative I've seen in quite some time.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Leaving all the EU stuff aside, it's basically this: Dooku, as Sidious' apprentice, recruits Jango as the template for the Clone Army, the order for which is placed legitimately by Jedi master Sifo-Dyas (presumably under some sort of influence from Sidious or Dooku) who is then killed, and the location of Kamino is erased from the Jedi Archives, probably by Dooku just before he leaves the Jedi Order. This all happens about 10 years before Attack Of The Clones, i.e. around the time of Phantom Menace (which, given how the Senate is in turmoil due to the Trade Federation's blockade of Naboo, is a good time to do these things whilst everyone else is distracted).

I get that, but Obi-Wan says "Nearly 10 years ago"
That means it takes place slightly after Phantom Menace.
That being the case...
Syfo-Dyas was a Council Member during Phantom Mencae...
That or one of the Council died, was replaced with Syfo-Dyas and was himself almost immediately killed...

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I don't think that Ford doesn't take acting seriously but I do get the feeling that he doesn't give a rat's ass about celebrity and being famous.

This.

And he has said so. He views acting as any other job: you work hard to be good at it. He said as a child he saw a man shoveling coal and thought, "wow, now that's a real job." I think he approaches his own work with this same kind of nose-to-the-grindstone clock-in-clock-out mentality. You show up to work and you work hard, and you gain the satisfaction of a job well done.

[ahossein79]

I really don't get why some fans just can't accept some people have a different opinion than some others do, the prequels are over some of us LOVE them some HATE them: Let it go! I am tired of the endless debates and crying and moaning and the non witty sarcastic comments. Let's just debate the merit of the discs it is annoying that users have decided to make this their own personal film critique site!

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by ahossein79

I really don't get why some fans just can't accept some people have a different opinion than some others do, the prequels are over some of us LOVE them some HATE them: Let it go! I am tired of the endless debates and crying and moaning and the non witty sarcastic comments. Let's just debate the merit of the discs it is annoying that users have decided to make this their own personal film critique site!

Good idea. I say we discharge all emotion and opinion from this site. Then we could install Orwellian TVs in our homes to watch our every move and show up to the state run factories every day at precisely the same time to avoid re-education.

Or...we could all accept that the reason that we are all so heavily divided on this franchise is regardless of what camp we are in we are all passionate about the Star Wars universe in our own ways, and that divergent thought and expressed opinion is one of the most important pillars of our species and must always be protected and encouraged at all costs, even when we are unreasonable or cruel with one another.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Anakin should've been the Han Solo of the sequels; a swaggering, arrogant hot-shot who's a hit with the ladies, instead of a brooding, glowering tosspot who talks about his dislike of sand.

That sand does get everywhere ... although I'm not sure I'd mention it on a romantic picnic. Padme's trying to look sexy eating a pickle and some knob-head is talking about sand in his crack. That's right up there with other picnic faux pas such as Superman eating dog food in Superman III.

The prequels needed a character that didn't believe any of the shit that inhabited them. Instead we got everyone believing everything ...

I do wonder why they didn't clone a Jedi or Force wielder instead of Jango? He has a cool helmet and a jetpack but you can buy those in Toys 'R Us.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's a great point about TNG. They had 178 episodes to get it right, so that crew arguably ended up being more beloved than Kirk and Co., after what was a very shaky start. But Lucas only had three movies to get those characters right, so he needed to be right on the money - but he was a long way off.

yes and no. They ended up getting 178 episodes but there was no guarentee they would - they could have easily been cancelled after the first few episodes. Look how many shows now film 6 episodes and are cancelled before #4 hits the air. Something had to click there too in order for them to get a chance to develop the characters more. Same with Star Wars but once the original hit, he was pretty much done - fans liked them so really he didn't need to do a ton more development. Even if he had totally messed up Empire, people would have come back for Jedi just based off of the love of that first movie. Look how many people went to see Phantom Menace after complaining about the Special Editions, Clones after Phantom Menace...

[octagon]

Originally Posted by ahossein79

I really don't get why some fans just can't accept some people have a different opinion than some others do, the prequels are over some of us LOVE them some HATE them: Let it go! I am tired of the endless debates and crying and moaning and the non witty sarcastic comments. Let's just debate the merit of the discs it is annoying that users have decided to make this their own personal film critique site!

You're absolutely right! That really is annoyzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

yes and no. They ended up getting 178 episodes but there was no guarentee they would - they could have easily been cancelled after the first few episodes. Look how many shows now film 6 episodes and are cancelled before #4 hits the air. Something had to click there too in order for them to get a chance to develop the characters more. Same with Star Wars but once the original hit, he was pretty much done - fans liked them so really he didn't need to do a ton more development.

Very true. Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner had good enough characters at first and were strong enough with them in TNG's opening episode Encounter at Farpoint to keep a core group of fans with the series long enough for it to build itself up. Spiner was fully committed to Data, and Stewart gave impassioned performances as he learned who Picard was to him. The show was weak, but as a fan I could sense the potential that was lurking behind the corner. Luckily, it played out to that end, and gave time for the other characters to develop to the point that they felt like your sci-fi family every week: characters you wanted over at your house for Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Characters you loved.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

yes and no. They ended up getting 178 episodes but there was no guarentee they would - they could have easily been cancelled after the first few episodes.

No, TNG was part of a syndication package deal. The show's budget, approx. $27 million, was amortized over a 26 episode run. So they were guaranteed at least one full season.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau

To be fair, I'd love to see a Obi-Wan spinoff with McGregor. I think he did wonderfully with what little he had to work with (especially once he got comfortable with the character by the last film). Given a good script and the right director, I think we could have one hell of a badass Obi-wan movie, and McGregor could make us fall back in love with Obi like we all once were back in '77.

Agreed. No doubt McGregor did a very good job in these and was one of the few bright points of the prequels.

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau

Good idea. I say we discharge all emotion and opinion from this site. Then we could install Orwellian TVs in our homes to watch our every move and show up to the state run factories every day at precisely the same time to avoid re-education.

Or...we could all accept that the reason that we are all so heavily divided on this franchise is regardless of what camp we are in we are all passionate about the Star Wars universe in our own ways, and that divergent thought and expressed opinion is one of the most important pillars of our species and must always be protected and encouraged at all costs, even when we are unreasonable or cruel with one another.

In other words, Lucas has us by the balls! No biggie.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by JimmyTwoTimes

In other words, Lucas has us by the balls! No biggie.

No, no...had. Lucas had us by the balls.