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View Poll Results: Which version of Star Wars Blu-ray will you be purchasing (or not)?
The Complete Star Wars Saga 1,335 72.48%
The Prequel Box Set 20 1.09%
The Original Trilogy Box Set 110 5.97%
Not Purchasing Star Wars Blu-ray 377 20.47%
Voters: 1842. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-18-2014, 02:47 AM   #45381
supercutz supercutz is offline
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Originally Posted by HeavyHitter View Post
Anyone care to speculate when we'll see new transfers of the original trilogy even if they are the same (special edition) versions as the Blus?
I'll play and throw out a guess of a new release to coincide with Ep VII. With any luck we may even get the original versions because Disney actually cares about film preservation and are likely already working to restore the unchanged trilogy for future benefit.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:24 AM   #45382
Petey Parker Petey Parker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supercutz View Post
I'll play and throw out a guess of a new release to coincide with Ep VII. With any luck we may even get the original versions because Disney actually cares about film preservation and are likely already working to restore the unchanged trilogy for future benefit.
Plus Disney likes money and even people who bought the original Blu will buy them again
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:27 AM   #45383
Geoff D Geoff D is online now
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I'd love to see a two-pronged attack: why not release the 3D versions of the prequels in one set and the restored originals in another? I'd buy both in a heartbeat.
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Old 04-18-2014, 11:02 AM   #45384
rickah88 rickah88 is offline
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Originally Posted by HeavyHitter View Post
Then why are you even in this thread?
Because some people have dedicated their lives to forever bashing Lucas.
Sad actually.
I can only hope these people don't procreate, if they are going to retain this much hatred over...wait for it....a film. I cringe to think what these people would do if their child came home with a bad report card.

Last edited by rickah88; 04-18-2014 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 04-18-2014, 11:07 AM   #45385
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Been enjoying Star Wars in 1080p and 6.1 lossless audio for almost three years now. Haters gonna hate.
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Old 04-18-2014, 11:39 AM   #45386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
I'd love to see a two-pronged attack: why not release the 3D versions of the prequels in one set and the restored originals in another? I'd buy both in a heartbeat.
Well a 3D converted version of Attack of the Clones does exist, it just was never released thertically like The Phantom Menace was, although it was initially planned for a theatrical release along with 3D conversions of Revenge of the Sith and the OT films which were obviously yet to be made.

Anyway the point is they'd only need to convert ROTS to have all the prequels ready to go in 3D on Blu-Ray...
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:24 PM   #45387
Gamma_Winstead Gamma_Winstead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supercutz View Post
I'll play and throw out a guess of a new release to coincide with Ep VII. With any luck we may even get the original versions because Disney actually cares about film preservation and are likely already working to restore the unchanged trilogy for future benefit.
Disney knows the money that lies in an original edition release. There's no way we DONT get them! Hopefully we get them for next Christmas!
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:33 PM   #45388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supercutz View Post
I'll play and throw out a guess of a new release to coincide with Ep VII. With any luck we may even get the original versions because Disney actually cares about film preservation and are likely already working to restore the unchanged trilogy for future benefit.
Hmm, I wonder. Since Lucas has been pretty adamant about saying the new versions are the only ones he wants out there, even at the cost of significant hauls of revenue, is Disney likely to go against his wishes?
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:36 PM   #45389
Gamma_Winstead Gamma_Winstead is offline
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Originally Posted by MacEachaidh View Post
Hmm, I wonder. Since Lucas has been pretty adamant about saying the new versions are the only ones he wants out there, even at the cost of significant hauls of revenue, is Disney likely to go against his wishes?
He doesn't own Star Wars any more. Basically: Tough titties Lucas. You sold your baby.
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:30 PM   #45390
MacEachaidh MacEachaidh is offline
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Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead View Post
He doesn't own Star Wars any more. Basically: Tough titties Lucas. You sold your baby.
I was responding to the suggestion that Disney would release the originals for the sake of film archivism. Lucas (and presumably Kathleen Kennedy, who will be representing his wishes) seeing the originals as no longer the preferred version will tend to undercut the value of the archivist view.

If Disney wants to release them purely as a revenue stream, then that's a different story, I guess. Disney long ago made clear it valued incomings ahead of artistic intentions.
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Old 04-18-2014, 03:59 PM   #45391
HeavyHitter HeavyHitter is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supercutz View Post
I'll play and throw out a guess of a new release to coincide with Ep VII. With any luck we may even get the original versions because Disney actually cares about film preservation and are likely already working to restore the unchanged trilogy for future benefit.
I'm hoping they would release these to coincide with the new movie. From a marketing perspective, they are going to want to release something for sure and this seems like the perfect timing not to mention 4K Blu is around the corner anyway and this would "future proof" them for that next format.
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Old 04-18-2014, 04:07 PM   #45392
Gamma_Winstead Gamma_Winstead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacEachaidh View Post
I was responding to the suggestion that Disney would release the originals for the sake of film archivism. Lucas (and presumably Kathleen Kennedy, who will be representing his wishes) seeing the originals as no longer the preferred version will tend to undercut the value of the archivist view.

If Disney wants to release them purely as a revenue stream, then that's a different story, I guess. Disney long ago made clear it valued incomings ahead of artistic intentions.
Indeed, that's true to Lucas, and usually I'd respect the filmmakers vision. This is one case however, where I can think that the filmmakers decision comes absolutley last to the consumers view. It makes it more of a strange decision to make.

I see it more as how WB handled Blade Runner. Every cut deserves preservation, because these are important, classic films.
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Old 04-18-2014, 04:12 PM   #45393
Petey Parker Petey Parker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead View Post
Indeed, that's true to Lucas, and usually I'd respect the filmmakers vision. This is one case however, where I can think that the filmmakers decision comes absolutley last to the consumers view. It makes it more of a strange decision to make.

I see it more as how WB handled Blade Runner. Every cut deserves preservation, because these are important, classic films.
I agree. Even if they weren't his "true vision" They should still be preserved.

I guess the thing that annoys me the most about it is that Lucas was pretty much at the head of the party complaining against the colorization of the Three Stooges. What he's doing to Star Wars makes him a huge hypocrite.
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Old 04-18-2014, 05:29 PM   #45394
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To my knowledge, George Lucas seems to have a more interesting position on this than the blanket "I will only release these final versions".

I remember reading somewhere that he wanted to do a restoration of the original cut due to demand, but thought it would be too costly.

This would be George Lucas: Business Guy.

On a personal level, it's obvious that the versions on the Blu-Ray sets are what he intended.

This would be George Lucas: Creative Vision Guy.

It sounds like I'm rehashing what everyone knows here, but I think looking at both of these points together is rather telling.

I think he's against releasing the unaltered films personally, but is pragmatic regarding the demand for these versions.

He also is very cautious when it comes to where he puts his funds, and this is why he's likely against the restoration efforts needed to restore the films to their original, unaltered state.

A little different, I think, than the oft-implied "these are my version, that's final, and film history be damned" viewpoint.

My thinking is that if Disney wanted to release and restore the original versions of the OT, Lucas would be fine with it, as long as he could make it clear with regards to his vision.
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Old 04-18-2014, 05:31 PM   #45395
MacEachaidh MacEachaidh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petey Parker View Post
Even if they weren't his "true vision" They should still be preserved.
Preserved isn't the same as commercially released. I wasn't suggesting they shouldn't be preserved.

So, is the consensus opinion now that Lucas simply lied when he said that no copy still existed of these films, close enough to original camera negative, to provide a suitable source for high-res scanning? Presumably, if people are talking about these being released, they're assuming a sufficient source exists that it won't just be in the state of Lucas' grudging release?

Quote:
I guess the thing that annoys me the most about it is that Lucas was pretty much at the head of the party complaining against the colorization of the Three Stooges. What he's doing to Star Wars makes him a huge hypocrite.
Hmm, are they really equivalent? Lucas is claiming that all he's done is use modern technology to further the vision for the films he always had. Colourisation is pandering to modern audiences that can't relate to the films as they were originally made.

(Okay, yeah, there's some overlap! But in Lucas' case, it's also the originator making the modifications, not someone trying to maximise their marketing potential.)
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Old 04-18-2014, 05:36 PM   #45396
MacEachaidh MacEachaidh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead View Post
Indeed, that's true to Lucas, and usually I'd respect the filmmakers vision. This is one case however, where I can think that the filmmakers decision comes absolutley last to the consumers view. It makes it more of a strange decision to make.
Fair enough. Personally, I'm not a great fan of the Great Unwashed deciding how films should go — it's an argument for the lowest common denominator, and it argues against the filmmaker's personal expression. Just look at how many films have been wrecked by focus groups!
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:26 PM   #45397
Petey Parker Petey Parker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacEachaidh View Post
Hmm, are they really equivalent? Lucas is claiming that all he's done is use modern technology to further the vision for the films he always had. Colourisation is pandering to modern audiences that can't relate to the films as they were originally made.

(Okay, yeah, there's some overlap! But in Lucas' case, it's also the originator making the modifications, not someone trying to maximise their marketing potential.)
There's more to it than just B&W vs Colorization. There's some more information about it here (among some other choice comments he has made over the years)

I don't think that most people are saying that as the creator, he isn't well within his rights to make any changes he wishes to the films. It would just be nice to be able to purchase the films as they originally were in the format of the time too. The already mentioned Blade Runner is a great example on how to do it right and make almost everyone happy (since it is probably impossible to make everyone happy)
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:59 PM   #45398
BillieCassin BillieCassin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacEachaidh View Post
Preserved isn't the same as commercially released. I wasn't suggesting they shouldn't be preserved.

So, is the consensus opinion now that Lucas simply lied when he said that no copy still existed of these films, close enough to original camera negative, to provide a suitable source for high-res scanning? Presumably, if people are talking about these being released, they're assuming a sufficient source exists that it won't just be in the state of Lucas' grudging release?

It's a much more complex situation than that. Check out the link in my signature - The Special Edition Restoration Process - it's quite a remarkable journey the original film negative itself has been through.


That said, I have absolutely, zero, nada doubt that Disney has their team working on the original trilogy for release sooner rather than later. Likely alongside the newer versions.

The poster above was correct, around the time of the Blu-ray launch (I cannot recall if it was the announcement or the actual launch) Lucas admitted "hey, I could do it, but I don't want to spend the few million bucks it would cost" since he personally wasn't interested in it.

At that point, he knew he would be selling - which is also why the Blu-ray set was as sparse in extras content than it could have been - this added value to the brand for whomever purchased it, so they had plenty of material to release in future editions.
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Old 04-18-2014, 08:09 PM   #45399
thebard thebard is offline
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Originally Posted by MacEachaidh View Post
Hmm, are they really equivalent? Lucas is claiming that all he's done is use modern technology to further the vision for the films he always had. Colourisation is pandering to modern audiences that can't relate to the films as they were originally made.
I don't see how you can read the following quote and claim there's no parallel:
[Show spoiler]
"My name is George Lucas. I am a writer, director, and producer of motion pictures and Chairman of the Board of Lucasfilm Ltd., a multi-faceted entertainment corporation.
I am not here today as a writer-director, or as a producer, or as the chairman of a corporation. I've come as a citizen of what I believe to be a great society that is in need of a moral anchor to help define and protect its intellectual and cultural heritage. It is not being protected.
The destruction of our film heritage, which is the focus of concern today, is only the tip of the iceberg. American law does not protect our painters, sculptors, recording artists, authors, or filmmakers from having their lifework distorted, and their reputation ruined. If something is not done now to clearly state the moral rights of artists, current and future technologies will alter, mutilate, and destroy for future generations the subtle human truths and highest human feeling that talented individuals within our society have created.
A copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.
People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society. The preservation of our cultural heritage may not seem to be as politically sensitive an issue as "when life begins" or "when it should be appropriately terminated," but it is important because it goes to the heart of what sets mankind apart. Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavor. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.
These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tommorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with "fresher faces," or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor's lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new "original" negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires. The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely diligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control. In order to reconstruct old negatives, many archivists have had to go to Eastern bloc countries where American films have been better preserved.
In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.
There is nothing to stop American films, records, books, and paintings from being sold to a foreign entity or egotistical gangsters and having them change our cultural heritage to suit their personal taste.
I accuse the companies and groups, who say that American law is sufficient, of misleading the Congress and the People for their own economic self-interest.
I accuse the corporations, who oppose the moral rights of the artist, of being dishonest and insensitive to American cultural heritage and of being interested only in their quarterly bottom line, and not in the long-term interest of the Nation.
The public's interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests. And the proof of that is that even a copyright law only permits the creators and their estate a limited amount of time to enjoy the economic fruits of that work.
There are those who say American law is sufficient. That's an outrage! It's not sufficient! If it were sufficient, why would I be here? Why would John Houston have been so studiously ignored when he protested the colorization of "The Maltese Falcon?" Why are films cut up and butchered?
Attention should be paid to this question of our soul, and not simply to accounting procedures. Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.
I hope you have the courage to lead America in acknowledging the importance of American art to the human race, and accord the proper protection for the creators of that art--as it is accorded them in much of the rest of the world communities."
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Old 04-18-2014, 08:46 PM   #45400
MacEachaidh MacEachaidh is offline
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There's more to it than just B&W vs Colorization. There's some more information about it here (among some other choice comments he has made over the years)
Yep, but it wasn't me that said that it was anything like "just B&W vs Colorization".

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillieCassin View Post
It's a much more complex situation than that. Check out the link in my signature - The Special Edition Restoration Process - it's quite a remarkable journey the original film negative itself has been through.
A lot of that is conjecture though, no? I asked about what the general (assumed) consensus was, because nobody actually knows the situation.

I get that your own reading is that Disney will release it. I guess time will tell, eh?

Quote:
The poster above was correct, around the time of the Blu-ray launch (I cannot recall if it was the announcement or the actual launch) Lucas admitted "hey, I could do it, but I don't want to spend the few million bucks it would cost" since he personally wasn't interested in it.
Does anyone actually believe anything Lucas says any more? I deeply respect the bloke for what he's genuinely achieved, which is why I think it's so bewildering (and, honestly, saddening) that he's turned into a compulsive fibber. He's told several different versions, for instance, of the state of the OT's camera negatives and why he could or couldn't release a mastered HD version of it to disc.

Both of you, please don't assume, just because I didn't go into the ones you may subscribe to, that I don't know about any of them.
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