Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Alan Arnold was on set (even in Norway), traveled with the production. Interviews with Kershner, the actors, VFX and production people, editors, etc. throughout the production. Notes on what's going on the day to day of what's on set (the election of Margaret Thatcher, the death of John Barry, etc). Production photos.


So, which book are you talking about again? I take it you didn't read that one, did you?


P162: (Monday July 9). Arnold & Kersh discuss Lucas on set making script "compressions" (cuts before filming to avoid excess footage). Kersh discusses "catching" Lucas looking through the camera (and describing GL looking like a kid caught stealing cookies) which led him to have GL direct the scene where Luke gets ready to leave the medical bay before the battle.


Alan Arnold: "Are you happy about them or do you resent having his presence looming over your shoulder?"
Irvin Kershner: "I'm happy because I agreed with the compressions. Besides, George is very clever about it. He pops in and out of the set and takes a look..."


Sounds like a real tense relationship, doesn't it?


Point is you said "how little Lucas had to do with ESB while it was in production - he wasn't even on the same continent most of the filming. He absolutely did not like what Kershner was doing and fought against it " was a total falsehood and I'm calling you on it.

Dude, you are quoting a book written by the UNIT PUBLICIST nearly 40 years ago. A *publicist*.

Though a lot of it was accurate, it also left out quite a bit as would be expected by a promotional item.

Not gonna keep repeating myself. If you want to cling to a book from your childhood and believe what you want, so be it.

If you ever decide you want the real story (about how Lucas thought Kersh was making the entirely wrong approach to the film), it's a great read.



Check it out. But if you want to preserve your childhood fantasy, best not to.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Vader trying to shoot down Luke in the trench isn't evidence though. All Vader did was sense "The Force is strong with this one". But he wasn't about to believe that somehow this was his son in front of him.


The first film's story was in flux. GL had no idea that it would be a giant success and allow him to tell the full story like he wanted (up until the first grosses came in he didn't know if Empire would recoup it's cost, which he paid out of pocket for). So he kept it as simple as possible, scrapping story elements and saving other stuff for later and making last minute changes, like Obi-Wan being cut down by Vader. I don't see why people are using these changes to make him out to be a bad person.

The trench scene in the full context of the movie IS a piece of evidence to what I am saying.

No one is saying he is a bad person, sheesh. No one is even saying there is anything wrong with how he changed his story and thoughts. But...

Fanboys need to get a grip Lucas isn't perfect and didn't meticulously have everything mapped out to the tee for all six movies 40 years ago. He is human believe it or not.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

Dude, you are quoting a book written by the UNIT PUBLICIST nearly 40 years ago. A *publicist*.

Though a lot of it was accurate, it also left out quite a bit as would be expected by a promotional item.

Hardly a promotional item (on set arguments are transcribed word for word). Arnold says what he was hired on as in the forward of the book on page vi. He also talks about not being the typical type of writer who was won over by Gary Kurtz. Not your typical "publicist".

If you ever decide you want the real story (about how Lucas thought Kersh was making the entirely wrong approach to the film), it's a great read.

I have all three. In original hardcover (ANH has extra pages!) and the Kindle enhanced editions.

Check it out. But if you want to preserve your childhood fantasy, best not to.

Seems better than people that say GL has "raped" their childhood by making some changes to the OT.

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by wormraper

he made 3-5 good movies. the ENTIRE REST OF HIS CAREER is pure and utter shit

Except for founding ILM, THX, Skywalker Sound, and Pixar Animation. You might say that those projects were successful.

And for better or for worse, the few films that he has made have been monstrously influential on mainstream cinema (including the prequels).

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by thegoat

Except for founding ILM, THX, Skywalker Sound, and Pixar Animation. You might say that those projects were successful.

And for better or for worse, the few films that he has made have been monstrously influential on mainstream cinema (including the prequels).

It was just "Graphics Group" back then, and not much was done with it. It wasn't until Steve Jobs bought it, renamed it Pixar, and teamed up with Disney to make the first Pixar film Toy Story, that anything really started to look up for them. Selling Pixar to Disney also made the Jobs estate the largest share holder.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

It was just "Graphics Group" back then, and not much was done with it. It wasn't until Steve Jobs bought it, renamed it Pixar, and teamed up with Disney to make the first Pixar film Toy Story, that anything really started to look up for them. Selling Pixar to Disney also made the Jobs estate the largest share holder.

Jobs tried to turn Pixar into another (failed) computer company. He almost SOLD it just before Toy Story.


It was John Lasseter who pushed the Pixar film division and turned it into what it is today. He deserves the credit for what they became.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Jobs tried to turn Pixar into another (failed) computer company. He almost SOLD it just before Toy Story.


It was John Lasseter who pushed the Pixar film division and turned it into what it is today. He deserves the credit for what they became.

I heard Toy Story was a joint effort, and because of the success it had, Disney bought Pixar outright. I'm pretty sure Jobs still owned the company when Toy Story was released. In either case, Pixar shouldn't be listed as a successful thing Lucas did.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

I heard Toy Story was a joint effort, and because of the success it had, Disney bought Pixar outright. I'm pretty sure Jobs still owned the company when Toy Story was released. In either case, Pixar shouldn't be listed as a successful thing Lucas did.

If it wasn't for Lucas, Pixar wouldn't exist. Simple.


What do you mean by "joint effort"?

Many people at Pixar still think of the people at ILM as their brothers in arms. Skywalker Sound does all their sound and people like Gary Rydstrom have worked at Pixar animation. They share software. The ties between LucasFilm and Pixar can't be ignored.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

What do you mean by "joint effort"?

I just meant it wasn't owned by Disney at the time of the Toy Story release, so it was Disney AND Pixar that worked together to release the movie. Perhaps I used the wrong term, but that's what I meant. Disney didn't buy it outright until after Toy Story.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I have all three. In original hardcover (ANH has extra pages!) and the Kindle enhanced editions.

Perfect! Me too! Now, go read them.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Seems better than people that say GL has "raped" their childhood by making some changes to the OT.

While I don't doubt that someone, somewhere, said that at some point, it's funny because that has so become one of those internet things where the folks who actually use that phrase use it against those who they feel are critical, because I've never seen anyone actually claim that unless they were intentionally joking.

I think the only person that he disrespected with the SE's was, really, himself. It was his right to do so, but it's his own legacy that suffers because of it. Second guessing himself on things like "who shot first" because in his 50's when he made the changes he was at a different place in his life, he was raising children, and disrespected the job his younger self did. I mean, that's what the prequels were all about, too - attempting to neuter Darth Vader, one of the greatest villains of the 20th century, by making him the real victim. I can't recall which novel it was in, but at one point in the EU Anakin appears to Leia and tries to apologize, and she basically tells him to go F himself because one moment of contrition at the end of his life didn't make up for the millions he had killed. I always thought that was kind of a shout to George, LOL.

Anyway, all that is debatable and depends on your personal interpretation - but to be absolutely honest, the one thing most wrong with the SE's is that the tech just wasn't there to do it correctly. The space stuff was great, I don't mind a frame of it - well, the Praxis effect was a bit much, but I digress. I actually liked many of the changes to ESB - it never made much sense that this beautiful Cloud City had almost no windows, haha. But the problem specifically with ANH is that the CGI just isn't that good in the live-action scenes. Even in the newest editions, it's just not great CGI. There is some not great CGI in the prequels, as well, though overall it's much better. It just wasn't ready for prime time when it was all done.

[ahossein79]

Originally Posted by Galactus123

Watching Red Letter Media's Star Wars reviews again right now. They are much more entertaining than the prequels themselves.

You do realize nobody cares right?!

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

I actually liked many of the changes to ESB - it never made much sense that this beautiful Cloud City had almost no windows, haha.

In the now cave, which did you prefer. Visible Wampa or no just Wampa sounds? I know some people that prefer seeing it in the SE, and others that say not seeing it is more suspenseful.


Also, why do I see a lot of people here abbreviate it as "ESB" when the title is "THE Empire Strikes Back" so it should be TESB

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

In the now cave, which did you prefer. Visible Wampa or no just Wampa sounds? I know some people that prefer seeing it in the SE, and others that say not seeing it is more suspenseful.


Also, why do I see a lot of people here abbreviate it as "ESB" when the title is "THE Empire Strikes Back" so it should be TESB

It sometimes does get abbreviated like that, but usually isn't, because grammatically, "the" doesn't always count as a word.

Also so it fits with the standard three-letter acronym standard for the series.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

Also, why do I see a lot of people here abbreviate it as "ESB" when the title is "THE Empire Strikes Back" so it should be TESB

Geez, and I thought the 'why do people say Gojira' bit was pedantic

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

It sometimes does get abbreviated like that, but usually isn't, because grammatically, "the" doesn't always count as a word.

Also so it fits with the standard three-letter acronym standard for the series.

Originally Posted by octagon

Geez, and I thought the 'why do people say Gojira' bit was pedantic

So you two decide to focus on the side note, rather than the main question at hand?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

So you two decide to focus on the side note, rather than the main question at hand?

There are no 'main questions at hand' in this thread. Pretty much everything we talk about in here are side notes that have been hashed to death over and over and over again.

Including twenty-five year old changes to the Wampa cave.

Sorry.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by octagon

There are no 'main questions at hand' in this thread. Pretty much everything we talk about in here are side notes that have been hashed to death over and over and over again.

Including twenty-five year old changes to the Wampa cave.

Sorry.

If you treat every post as a stand-alone letter, then the "main question at hand" with regard to MY post was the Wampa question. Pretty much every single person on the planet knows that.

[Thomas Guycott]

I have never liked the new wampa footage; not only because the original fleeting glimpses are more suspenseful, but because the newly-shot footage does not match up at all.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

If you treat every post as a stand-alone letter, then the "main question at hand" with regard to MY post was the Wampa question. Pretty much every single person on the planet knows that.

Am I following this right? Are you seriously annoyed because a couple people responded to a question you asked?

Seriously???

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by octagon

Am I following this right? Are you seriously annoyed because a couple people responded to a question you asked?

Seriously???

I'll just leave this here...



I even used three shades of red, so you don't get confused and think it's all one giant wall of text.