Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[iamsometal]

Originally Posted by HGN2001

I think what we really need is a nice teal palette for the STAR WARS films like they did with BLADE RUNNER.

Harry

Also, take this with a grain of salt, as these are photos taken of a screening of one of the few Technicolor prints of ANH in existence, from a screening that happened 4 years ago, but that 1977 Technicolor print does display a heavy cyan push in the color timing:



If a restoration were to happen and it looked anything like this, I'd be 100% satisfied as long as it's a carefully restored unaltered version with all the detail and fine grain intact.

Source: http://savestarwars.com/technicoloribscreening.html

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by rickah88

There's voicing an opinion about something you don't like, then there's what crazed Star Wars fans have been doing for over a decade...some of which borders on total lunacy.
The man released what he wanted to release, either accept it, or don't...either way just move on. My goodness, some of these "fans" are downright scary with their *ahem* sense of ideals.

Let's get a few things straight here.

There are the REALLY extreme type of people complaining about this, who make up a loud and vocal, but otherwise small percentage of the overall base of fans complaining (i.e. the ones who say "George Lucas raped my childhood," the ones who posted venomous messages on his daughter's twitter account when the Blu-Rays were coming out, the ones who in general make their argument using A LOT of extreme comments and at times derogatory names and threats towards Lucas).

Then you have the people who, while still being very vocal about it, are more level headed overall, making a case for why these should be released, and for the most part keeping the insults of Lucas himself to a minimum. Sure, they still may state what they didn't like about the new versions and the prequels and why they feel he missed the mark, and criticize him in that sense, but they generally stop short of calling him really obnoxious names and such. Yes, anger and frustration are being expressed, but in a comparatively more level headed manner.


The problem with statements like the one you have made here is that you attribute the characteristics of the small but vocal minority of those who are REALLY spewing venom on the whole thing, and attribute that behavior to pretty much the entire base of fans who are complaining in any way to any degree.

I think at this point the phrase "George Lucas raped my childhood" is used more often by those defending him as an "example" of what the people complaining about him "typically" say, than is actually used by those who are actually complaining, including those on the more extreme side.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I believe he likes [poop] flavored ones.

Judging by that "wit" I believe Jar-Jar & Ewoks were aimed at your audience.

[iamsometal]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Judging by that "wit" I believe Jar-Jar & Ewoks were aimed at your audience.

Let's not bring the Ewoks down to the level of toilet-humor that Jar-Jar was synonymous with.

[jlk5844]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Let's get a few things straight here.

There are the REALLY extreme type of people complaining about this, who make up a loud and vocal, but otherwise small percentage of the overall base of fans complaining (i.e. the ones who say "George Lucas raped my childhood," the ones who posted venomous messages on his daughter's twitter account when the Blu-Rays were coming out, the ones who in general make their argument using A LOT of extreme comments and at times derogatory names and threats towards Lucas).

Then you have the people who, while still being very vocal about it, are more level headed overall, making a case for why these should be released, and for the most part keeping the insults of Lucas himself to a minimum. Sure, they still may state what they didn't like about the new versions and the prequels and why they feel he missed the mark, and criticize him in that sense, but they generally stop short of calling him really obnoxious names and such. Yes, anger and frustration are being expressed, but in a comparatively more level headed manner.


The problem with statements like the one you have made here is that you attribute the characteristics of the small but vocal minority of those who are REALLY spewing venom on the whole thing, and attribute that behavior to pretty much the entire base of fans who are complaining in any way to any degree.

I think at this point the phrase "George Lucas raped my childhood" is used more often by those defending him as an "example" of what the people complaining about him "typically" say, than is actually used by those who are actually complaining, including those on the more extreme side.

100% right on.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Let's get a few things straight here.

There are the REALLY extreme type of people complaining about this, who make up a loud and vocal, but otherwise small percentage of the overall base of fans complaining (i.e. the ones who say "George Lucas raped my childhood," the ones who posted venomous messages on his daughter's twitter account when the Blu-Rays were coming out, the ones who in general make their argument using A LOT of extreme comments and at times derogatory names and threats towards Lucas).

Then you have the people who, while still being very vocal about it, are more level headed overall, making a case for why these should be released, and for the most part keeping the insults of Lucas himself to a minimum. Sure, they still may state what they didn't like about the new versions and the prequels and why they feel he missed the mark, and criticize him in that sense, but they generally stop short of calling him really obnoxious names and such. Yes, anger and frustration are being expressed, but in a comparatively more level headed manner.


The problem with statements like the one you have made here is that you attribute the characteristics of the small but vocal minority of those who are REALLY spewing venom on the whole thing, and attribute that behavior to pretty much the entire base of fans who are complaining in any way to any degree.

I think at this point the phrase "George Lucas raped my childhood" is used more often by those defending him as an "example" of what the people complaining about him "typically" say, than is actually used by those who are actually complaining, including those on the more extreme side.

I prefer to deal with fans on a 1on1 basis. I've had a nice chat with Thebard, for example, who has a differing opinion of mine, yet we could see each other's point of view.
But more times than not, I'll be assailed by 3-5 "extremist fans" preaching Lucas is the devil...and other nonsense.
I've stated, numerous times, I want the UOT just as much as the next person, but there's no way I'm going to moan about it for years. Just like I don't moan about the prequels for over a decade, because I enjoy them...very much.
Also I don't mind being in the minority in that I feel Lucas has given me so much more than he's taken away.
So just like I can't quantify how many fans would buy the UOT if it gets released, I also can't quantify sensible fan from senseless fan...short of a post and/or a signature.

[Bickle76]

Originally Posted by iamsometal

Also, take this with a grain of salt, as these are photos taken of a screening of one of the few Technicolor prints of ANH in existence, from a screening that happened 4 years ago, but that 1977 Technicolor print does display a heavy cyan push in the color timing:



If a restoration were to happen and it looked anything like this, I'd be 100% satisfied as long as it's a carefully restored unaltered version with all the detail and fine grain intact.

Source: http://savestarwars.com/technicoloribscreening.html

I'm not very knowledgeable with color timing, but this frame feels right. Don't know if it's accurate, but it seems accurate. Watching the OT on VHS for so many years and then seeing the SE's; I was amazed at how vibrant and crisp they had become. I've been watching the DVD's since they came out in 720p. I double dipped for the theatrical cuts in 2010, hadn't seen them since 1996 and I got a similar feeling as in the frame above as it feels more organic, it looks and feels like it was shot on film, because it was. I own the BD's and they feel cold, as if they were shot digitally. At the end of the day these are films. I find the current BD's to be disappointing. I find myself going back to those ported LD versions more than I ever thought.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

(and all mixes should be included)

You can't include all mixes because theatrical formats were different than home theatre formats. The 70mm releases used Dolby 6-track baby boom. That's Left, Center, Right (which is okay), low (but not sub) frequencies only to the LC and RC front channels and mono surround. And no one has those LC and RC channels at home. And the Dolby Optical release was L,C,R and mono surround. Fans would freak out if they released with mono surround. You could release a mono mix in addition to the 5.1/7.1 but it wasn't the preferred mix and it probably wouldn't sound any better than the automatic mix down that happens in the player or TV.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Bickle76

I'm not very knowledgeable with color timing, but this frame feels right.

My computer monitor isn't tightly calibrated, but it doesn't seem ideal to me. Have no idea whether this matches the original film intention or not. While Guinness' flesh tones seem perfectly balanced (neither warm nor cool), there's a lot of green in his beard and in Luke's hair.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by rickah88

But more times than not, I'll be assailed by 3-5 "extremist fans" preaching Lucas is the devil...and other nonsense.

See, this smacks of exactly the kind of exaggeration and mischaracterization he was talking about. But maybe it's not. Maybe you are routinely assailed by roving bands of extremists preaching that Lucas is the devil.

If that were the case it should probably be easy enough to provide a few examples.

In the meantime color me somewhat skeptical.

[oldgame]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

You can't include all mixes because theatrical formats were different than home theatre formats. The 70mm releases used Dolby 6-track baby boom. That's Left, Center, Right (which is okay), low (but not sub) frequencies only to the LC and RC front channels and mono surround. And no one has those LC and RC channels at home. And the Dolby Optical release was L,C,R and mono surround. Fans would freak out if they released with mono surround. You could release a mono mix in addition to the 5.1/7.1 but it wasn't the preferred mix and it probably wouldn't sound any better than the automatic mix down that happens in the player or TV.

I would be completley happy with a mono,stereo, and surround mix. I wouldn't freak out with a mono surround mix. It would fit the times of these movie. I'm completely satisfied with the laserdisc mix. PLIIX & DTS NEO:X does wonders with these mixes. But I doubt we will get the mono mix.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by octagon

See, this smacks of exactly the kind of exaggeration and mischaracterization he was talking about. But maybe it's not. Maybe you are routinely assailed by roving bands of extremists preaching that Lucas is the devil.

If that were the case it should probably be easy enough to provide a few examples.

In the meantime color me somewhat skeptical.

[JayFank]

Honestly, the special editions are perfect, even the new additions to the blu-ray release. The krayt dragon scream, Jabba, Greedo, the countless dialog changes, Hayden in place of Sebastian Shaw, getting rid of Yub Nub, the new song at Jabba's palace, adding the Vader "Noooooooooo", etc.

All are great changes

[Astro Zombie]

Originally Posted by JayFank

Honestly, the special editions are perfect, even the new additions to the blu-ray release. The krayt dragon scream, Jabba, Greedo, the countless dialog changes, Hayden in place of Sebastian Shaw, getting rid of Yub Nub, the new song at Jabba's palace, adding the Vader "Noooooooooo", etc.

All are great changes

[thebard]

Originally Posted by iamsometal

Also, take this with a grain of salt, as these are photos taken of a screening of one of the few Technicolor prints of ANH in existence, from a screening that happened 4 years ago, but that 1977 Technicolor print does display a heavy cyan push in the color timing:

[Show spoiler]

If a restoration were to happen and it looked anything like this, I'd be 100% satisfied as long as it's a carefully restored unaltered version with all the detail and fine grain intact.

Source: http://savestarwars.com/technicoloribscreening.html

It looks a little green-pushed to me too, but as you said... photo of a screening, under theater lighting conditions, with unknown camera settings, displayed on my laptop monitor, so... who knows.

And, as you and iamsometal have stated:

Originally Posted by iamsometal

I'd take some modernized color timing if I could get the SE crap excised from the OT and have a remastered version with more detail, higher contrast and less heavy crush any day.

I can adjust color timing (to an extent) on the playback or by processing the disc... but I can't undo the cgi.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

The 70mm releases used Dolby 6-track baby boom. That's Left, Center, Right (which is okay), low (but not sub) frequencies only to the LC and RC front channels and mono surround. And no one has those LC and RC channels at home.

You can easily sum both LC/RC baby boom channels (since they are non-directional) to the .1 LFE channel.


There are a few discs out there (notably Fox) that will put out the 70MM mixes as DD 4.1, like on ALIEN and ALIENS.

[OneBuckFilms]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You can easily sum both LC/RC baby boom channels (since they are non-directional) to the .1 LFE channel.


There are a few discs out there (notably Fox) that will put out the 70MM mixes as DD 4.1, like on ALIEN and ALIENS.

Sounds like a logical way to go.

My dream release (for Star Wars) on Blu would be something like this:

Disk 1 - Original Theatrical Version

1. Original Theatrical version of the film.
- Original 70mm Dolby Boom mix (mixed to 4.1 ala Alien).
- Original Dolby Optical (L,C,R,Mono Surround) mix
- Original Stereo mix.
- Original Mono mix.

Disk 2 - Enhanced Editions - George Lucas' Vision

2. 1997 Special Edition
- THX certified mix from the Special Edition theatrical presentation.

3. 2004 DVD Edition (SD, same as DVD)
- DD sound mix from that edition.

4. 2011 Blu-Ray Edition
- Sound Mix from that edition.

Disc 3 - Special Features

- Definitive Star Wars? - Changes to the Film (HD)
- The Legacy of Star Wars - The impact of Star Wars on film history (HD)
- Empire of Dreams (SD)
- Deleted and Extended Scenes
- Star Wars Holiday Special

But this is just me dreaming.

[Bickle76]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

My computer monitor isn't tightly calibrated, but it doesn't seem ideal to me. Have no idea whether this matches the original film intention or not. While Guinness' flesh tones seem perfectly balanced (neither warm nor cool), there's a lot of green in his beard and in Luke's hair.

I see it now that you mention it, thanks, I'll still take that over the BD, which to me feels more in line with the prequels than as a film from 77'.

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by JayFank

Honestly, the special editions are perfect, even the new additions to the blu-ray release. The krayt dragon scream, Jabba, Greedo, the countless dialog changes, Hayden in place of Sebastian Shaw, getting rid of Yub Nub, the new song at Jabba's palace, adding the Vader "Noooooooooo", etc.

All are great changes

[oldgame]

Originally Posted by OneBuckFilms

Sounds like a logical way to go.

My dream release (for Star Wars) on Blu would be something like this:

Disk 1 - Original Theatrical Version

1. Original Theatrical version of the film.
- Original 70mm Dolby Boom mix (mixed to 4.1 ala Alien).
- Original Dolby Optical (L,C,R,Mono Surround) mix
- Original Stereo mix.
- Original Mono mix.

Disk 2 - Enhanced Editions - George Lucas' Vision

2. 1997 Special Edition
- THX certified mix from the Special Edition theatrical presentation.

3. 2004 DVD Edition (SD, same as DVD)
- DD sound mix from that edition.

4. 2011 Blu-Ray Edition
- Sound Mix from that edition.

Disc 3 - Special Features

- Definitive Star Wars? - Changes to the Film (HD)
- The Legacy of Star Wars - The impact of Star Wars on film history (HD)
- Empire of Dreams (SD)
- Deleted and Extended Scenes
- Star Wars Holiday Special

But this is just me dreaming.

Perfect