Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

The most obvious reason for this is because Lucas knew how he wanted to get things started, and knew how things had to wrap up at the end, but for 25 years apparently never gave any thought about connecting the dots in between. And since he's creatively worki'ng alone he has to go into production with what's essentially first draft material.

That's a great way of putting it. Heck, what Lucas shoots first time around (never mind what he wrote) is only the first draft of the film. He puts it together in the edit, rewrites it and then picks up what he needs in the reshoots.

The two most egregious examples were the Sifo Dyas reveal, changed from someone impersonating the Jedi called Sido Dyas (Sid-i-ous, geddit?) into an actual dead Jedi called Sifo Dyas, and Anakin's turn: if people thought he wasn't actually all that reluctant in the final film, he switched his allegiance to Palps straightaway in the original shoot (!), standing at his master's side while Palps fights Windu (you can see he's actually fighting with Anakin's 'saber in some shots), only stepping in at the final moment to deliver the coup de grâce.

[popeflick]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

Love fans telling other fans what's valid. Last time I checked, people were free to watch the movies in any order they please.

Reading all of the "this sucks" posts and I think using the term fan isn't appropriate. Troll is more like it. They hate it, dismember it with 4th grade logic and keep coming back. -yawn-

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The two most egregious examples were the Sifo Dyas reveal, changed from someone impersonating the Jedi called Sido Dyas (Sid-i-ous, geddit?) into an actual dead Jedi called Sifo Dyas...

Such a mess. It's really one of the most mind-boggling examples of poor story construction in modern cinema, doubly so because of the high-profile nature of the franchise.

[GuruAskew]

Here's a challenge for anyone who thinks 4,5,1,2,3,6 is a good idea:

I challenge you to find one story in the entire history of storytelling that interrupts a story in progress to tell a flashback that is at least 2/3rds as long as the main story. That itself is a big gimme because this ridiculous order is actually ONE AND 2/3RDS as long as the main story is in this case. But I'm giving you a big handicap.

It doesn't have to be a good story. I challenge you guys to find one story in any medium in which the author was inept enough to think such a thing is an enjoyable way of telling a story.

[rickah88]

I've got a challange: Who cares!

Just watch whatever versions of the films you like, in whatever order you like!

It's just that simple.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by GuruAskew

Star Wars isn't anything of substance. It's harmless fluff from beginning to end no matter how you watch it. But interrupting one trilogy for another is bad "writing" no matter how you look at it.

If you don't think there is any substance in Star Wars -- from the themes of anger and possession versus love and acceptance, control and dominance vs. freedom and community -- that's all you, friend. I think SW is very moving, personally, and unlike others who hate seeing Hayden at the end of Jedi, I find that change particularly moving. To each their own.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by rickah88

I've got a challange: Who cares!

This. Pretty much.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

If you don't think there is any substance in Star Wars -- from the themes of anger and possession versus love and acceptance, control and dominance vs. freedom and community -- that's all you, friend. I think SW is very moving, personally, and unlike others who hate seeing Hayden at the end of Jedi, I find that change particularly moving. To each their own.

I've made my peace with that change as I can see the thinking behind it, and I love the planet montage and the new music so I've got to accept it anyway. But it's such a sloppy change especially when he first fades in, it's like Hayden's just stopped laughing and needs to compose himself for a take. Ugh. Typical Lucas: the idea was there but the execution was poor.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by GuruAskew

Here's a challenge for anyone who thinks 4,5,1,2,3,6 is a good idea:

I challenge you to find one story in the entire history of storytelling that interrupts a story in progress to tell a flashback that is at least 2/3rds as long as the main story. That itself is a big gimme because this ridiculous order is actually ONE AND 2/3RDS as long as the main story is in this case. But I'm giving you a big handicap.

It doesn't have to be a good story. I challenge you guys to find one story in any medium in which the author was inept enough to think such a thing is an enjoyable way of telling a story.

Not a fan of non-linear narrative, I take it.

[GuruAskew]

The Hayden Force ghost thing is a solution to a real-world problem: Sebastian Shaw isn't even recognizable compared to his previous appearance moments before. As the ending to a 3-film series it's a failure, it's almost a catastrophic failure coming at the end of a 6-film series.

I suspect Lucas would have included young versions of all 3 ghosts if not for the challenge that poses re: establishing the never-designed young Yoda. So what you end up with all this reverse-engineering of the story and the rules to support young Anakin and old Obi Wan and Yoda.

[GuruAskew]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Not a fan of non-linear narrative, I take it.

I'm fine with it. A lot of care needs to go into it to make it work. No care went into creating this order, and it's demonstrably broken.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Vlad Draculi

It's his decent into the dark side. Look, you need to think of it from a different perspective. You are letting your hate towards the PT make a biased opinion. the prequels have their issues, yes, but there are just as many surprises in there if you were seeing them for the first time WITHOUT the OT.

Until we actually get to speak with someone who has watched them in chronological order without any prior knowledge of the series, we won't really know how well they are or are not. And that is the problem with prequels in general. You know what is going to happen as there are no surprises.

My children don't know anything about Star Wars yet. I'm going to show them to them in Episode order.
I'll film them watching the movies and edit accordingly.
I figure next year will be good for them to be able to watch them.
He'll be 6, she'll be 5.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by GuruAskew

Star Wars isn't anything of substance. It's harmless fluff from beginning to end no matter how you watch it. But interrupting one trilogy for another is bad "writing" no matter how you look at it.

So there are valid and invalid of watching fluff?

Interesting.

[GuruAskew]

Yeah. A marshmallow is fluff but I'm sure there are tons of ways to mess up making them.

There is still rhyme and reason when it comes to seemingly-unimportant things.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by GuruAskew

I'm fine with it. A lot of care needs to go into it to make it work. No care went into creating this order, and it's demonstrably broken.

Yeah, it's so careless and thoughtless, it is inexplicable why so many people have discussed and adopted it. Google "Ernest Rister Order". Go read Drew McWeeney's series where he showed his kids the SW films in that order. Go ask the writers of The Big Bang Theory why they gave a shout-out to the "Machete" order in a recent episode, which was derived from my idea.

You go, Tiger. Have fun.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by GuruAskew

The Hayden Force ghost thing is a solution to a real-world problem: Sebastian Shaw isn't even recognizable compared to his previous appearance moments before.

That was a real world problem? There were actually real people in the real world who couldn't figure out who the other old Jedi was at the end of Return of the Jedi?

Was the jump from James Earl Jones to Mr Freeze to Proud Papa really too much for people? Were a lot of people getting lost along the way?

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

I'm going to watch the films out of order next time, just for you Guru.

[GuruAskew]

What a coincidence: Drew McWeeney and the writers of Big Bang Theory: all people I don't respect.

And to be perfectly honest, you've done nothing to earn my respect either.

Your desire to have me google your name as if you're some kinda internet celebrity is kinda awkward and uncomfortable though. So congrats on that.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by octagon

That was a real world problem? There were actually real people in the real world who couldn't figure out who the other old Jedi was at the end of Return of the Jedi?

Was the jump from James Earl Jones to Mr Freeze to Proud Papa really too much for people? Were a lot of people getting lost along the way?

No. They weren't. Even when I watched the trilogy as a 5-6 year old, I got that the guy at the end was Luke's dad. Not that hard to comprehend.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by GuruAskew

Yeah. A marshmallow is fluff but I'm sure there are tons of ways to mess up making them.

There is still rhyme and reason when it comes to seemingly-unimportant things.

Are there invalid ways to eat marshmallows?

Is the manner in which people eat marshmallows seemingly unimportant or genuinely unimportant?