Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

I find it amusing that someone would list Return of the Jedi as the worst Star Wars film since in many ways the major flaws of that film (poor storytelling to move the plot along, bad acting, flash over substance, kiddie pandering, body function humor, call backs to previous films) are carried over and magnified to the extreme in the prequels.

I agree Jedi is definitely not the worst by any means, BUT it was the movie where Lucas started showing signs of going flaky.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I agree Jedi is definitely not the worst by any means, BUT it was the movie where Lucas started showing signs of going flaky.

Endor. Where it all went to Hell.

Once he went there, Lucas never really left. It was his Hotel California.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Endor.

Where it all went to Hell.

Yep and couldn't he have come up with something else other than yet another Death Star to destroy? lol

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Yep and couldn't he have come up with something else other than yet another Death Star to destroy? lol

Well hey man, it worked out so well the first time it had to be gold again right? Reminds me of when I was a kid. I caught a turtle and named it Shredder. Kept that little ****er in a kiddy pool in my backyard. After he escaped I caught another one and, in a stroke of creative genius, named it Shredder 2 - but the magic was gone. The second Death Star was a lot like Shredder 2, if Lucas was smart he would've done what I did to fix the problem (which was to catch another turtle and name it Shredder 3). Two Death Stars at once man, friggin' intense.

[Gold Ranger]

Gary Kurtz was ADAMANT about not having a second Death Star!
He shaped A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back.
Originally, A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were mostly one movie.
Kurtz said that it was way too much for one film and helped Lucas break it down.

By Jedi, Lucas was tired of having his vision altered and fired Kurtz.
Starting with Jedi, we see how Lucas wanted the movies to be.
Since The Phantom Menace, Lucas' vision was given free reign and he wasn't constricted by anyone else, save for his budget and small ties to the original trilogy.

I'd be curious to see Lucas's version of His Own Vision of the Original Trilogy.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

I'd be curious to see Lucas's version of His Own Vision of the Original Trilogy.

The Death Star would've been an enormous blinking Ewok head and The Emperor would've looked and sounded exactly like Richard Nixon.

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by wormraper

I think Bluyoda pretty much lost credibility when he said they're the best movies ever made... although comparing them to "Tree of Life" is pretty comparable.... since Malick is pretty much good at shooting nature without any knowledge of how to do a cohesive story....much like Lucas

Well, I like original filmmaking. It's refreshing. George Lucas, much like Terrence Malick, like non-linear, pure cinema. I love that. It's a much more engaging experience, but I have lost all credibilty in your eyes, so I won't bore you with my thoughts any longer.

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

It is me, isn't it?

Nope. Why would think that?

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Gary Kurtz was ADAMANT about not having a second Death Star!
He shaped A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back.
Originally, A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were mostly one movie.
Kurtz said that it was way too much for one film and helped Lucas break it down.

By Jedi, Lucas was tired of having his vision altered and fired Kurtz.
Starting with Jedi, we see how Lucas wanted the movies to be.
Since The Phantom Menace, Lucas' vision was given free reign and he wasn't constricted by anyone else, save for his budget and small ties to the original trilogy.

I'd be curious to see Lucas's version of His Own Vision of the Original Trilogy.

Interesting. It sounds like the people who worked for Lucas really shaped the first two movies. Maybe this is another reason he seemingly has so much disdain for the originals.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

Well, I like original filmmaking. It's refreshing. George Lucas, much like Terrence Malick, like non-linear, pure cinema. I love that. It's a much more engaging experience, but I have lost all credibilty in your eyes, so I won't bore you with my thoughts any longer.



Nope. Why would think that?

George likes non linear pure cinema/?? sorry, Georgy boy didn't make ANYTHING fresh. he re worked old 1950's serials into Star Wars. it's NEVER been fresh. fun, yes, fresh, no. and Lucas also is EXTREMELY linear, almost rigidly so

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Gary Kurtz was ADAMANT about not having a second Death Star!
He shaped A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back.
Originally, A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were mostly one movie.
Kurtz said that it was way too much for one film and helped Lucas break it down.

By Jedi, Lucas was tired of having his vision altered and fired Kurtz.
Starting with Jedi, we see how Lucas wanted the movies to be.
Since The Phantom Menace, Lucas' vision was given free reign and he wasn't constricted by anyone else, save for his budget and small ties to the original trilogy.

I'd be curious to see Lucas's version of His Own Vision of the Original Trilogy.

Kurtz made it all better if you ask me, and Martha.
All that came after was the yes man, who obviously knew something was wrong.

[klauswhereareyou]

In all seriousness if someone wants to make a case for Lucas making challenging/anti story cinema than look no further than THX-1138 (another film he felt the need to go back and "better"). Now that does have what one would call a kind of poetic quality to it, and it was a few years before Malick's first film Badlands.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

In all seriousness if someone wants to make a case for Lucas making challenging/anti story cinema than look no further than THX-1138 (another film he felt the need to go back and "better"). Now that does have what one would call a kind of poetic quality to it, and it was a few years before Malick's first film Badlands.

Badlands is better.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Badlands is better.

Did I claim it wasn't? First don't mean best.

[Thomas Guycott]

Universal executives also initially considered American Graffiti unreleasable.

[Gold Ranger]

Yup, Rick was nothing more than a "Money-YesMan"

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Did I claim it wasn't? First don't mean best.

No I was just being snarky.

[stvn1974]

I loved THX-1138 and put the theatrical version as my third favorite film behind Blade Runner The Final Cut and Gillians cut of Brazil but again Lucas ruined it with pointless changes. I think he actually did more harm to THX-1138 than the OT. The theatrical film had a 70's feel to it and the underground city was claustrophobic and unsettling so of course Lucas had to go back and "fix" that with opened up hallways and tunnels. I can only imagine what he would have done to American Graffiti if Universal would have let him.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I agree Jedi is definitely not the worst by any means, BUT it was the movie where Lucas started showing signs of going flaky.

Aye, it's all there. The retread of existing beats only with a bigger budget, the over-emphasis on shilling toys via increasingly random action scenes and kid-friendly creatures, the cut-and-shut treatment of the back story in order to get the movie out the door, and finally the dull & disinterested performances which are what makes the always-iffy dialogue clunk even harder.

It's redeemed in part by the incredible space battle - retread it may be, but it's still one of the most complex opticals ever attempted - and the sheer emotional powaaahhhh of the Luke vs Vader face-off, along with the super-sarky Emperor, but it's not even the third best Star Wars film for me.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I loved THX-1138 and put the theatrical version as my third favorite film behind Blade Runner The Final Cut and Gillians cut of Brazil but again Lucas ruined it with pointless changes. I think he actually did more harm to THX-1138 than the OT. The theatrical film had a 70's feel to it and the underground city was claustrophobic and unsettling so of course Lucas had to go back and "fix" that with opened up hallways and tunnels. I can only imagine what he would have done to American Graffiti if Universal would have let him.

The only change I'm aware of Lucas made to AG in the last 20 years was making the sky in the opening scene darker to make it appear more like it was taking place at dusk. I think in the late 70's he did get to go back and add a couple of scenes Universal made him take out prior to release (Warner let him do the same thing with THX-1138 after the success of Star Wars).

Yeah the 2004 THX director's cut, another of those hey let's add "modern" CGI to an old movie so it looks totally out of place!

[JeffTheMovieGuy]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Kurtz made it all better if you ask me, and Martha.
All that came after was the yes man, who obviously knew something was wrong.

That seemed like all that Lucas surrounded himself with were yes men it would have been amazing if some no men got involved and saved the prequel series.