Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Therein lies the problem: he's making it up as he goes along so he literally can't imbue the previous film with portents to the next because those characters and situations don't exist yet!

And then there's the other end of the spectrum where he devotes large swaths of the first film to laying the groundwork for a reveal he couldn't quite bring himself to pull the trigger on by the time he did the third film.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

This did also affect the OT to a certain degree, like Luke/Leia turning out to be brother and sister, Obi-Wan's "certain point of view" etc, but because that wasn't some labyrinthine plot it didn't undermine the storytelling so much.

There are a lot of unfair/unreasonable double standards applied to the two trilogies but there is one definite area where a two standards are justified: The OT was not written from the ground up as one grand trilogy. The PT was. Or at least it should have been.

[Gaius Marius]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

You know, with all the crying out from fans of wanting a collection of the original trilogy unaltered, I was wondering if anyone thinks the same as me in that despite the changes that suck in the Special Editions, there's actually quite a few additions/changes/fixes that I DO like and don't want to go back to the old unaltered versions. I think with all the griping and complaining that people do about the Special Editions, they've sort of forgotten all the actual improvements that were made.

I don't want to go back to seeing the "slugs" on the Emperor's face in ROTJ or the old "monkey witch" emperor in ESB.

I don't want to see transparent cockpits in ESB or horrible compositing lines in the Rancor scene in ROTJ.

I don't want to see the old lifeless Mos Eisley or the puppeteer's arm on the Wampa. I LOVE the extra Wampa scenes added in ESB.

I don't want to see the digital read out with actual English text instead of the "basic" alien alphabet use in the Star Wars universe.

I like the addition of the blinking eyes on the ewoks.

I like how they opened up Cloud City with all the extra scenery outside the windows.

Basically I can boil down the changes that I hate to just a handful of things..

1.) Han not shooting first. This is by far the most hated change in the Special Editions and the original Han shooting first sequence NEEDS to be reinstated! End of story!

2.) The extra Han/Jabba scene where Han steps on his tail. This entire scene is completely unnecessary and much of the dialogue is a repeat of the exchange between Greedo and Han. Get rid of it.

3.) Jedi Rocks: The CGI is awful looking and the new song is terrible! The original "Lapti-Nek" sequence needs to be reinstated.

4.) The new dragon call that Obi-Wan makes on Tatooine that scares off the Sand People. Reinstate the old one! It sounds much better!

5.) Reinstate the old celebration on Endor. In light of the events that appear to be happening with The Force Awakens, I don't think the celebration in the Special Edition works. The old ending just shows them celebrating on Endor. The new ending shows Galaxy-wide celebration with statues coming down. This indicates the end of the imperial reign which as we know now that's not the case.

6.) Put old Anakin back as a force ghost! No matter how open minded I try to be about it, having Hayden there as a force ghost simply doesn't make logical sense and anyone who tries to justify it is REALLY reaching with their logic!!

7.) Remove the Vader "No's" at the end of ROTJ. The scene worked better without them.

I guess what I'm saying is, with those crying about wanting completely unaltered versions and those who prefer the Special Editions, is there anyone else who would be happy with a sort of halfway compromise between the two?

I actually agree with much of what you said here. I also like the enhanced Battle of Yavin and the Biggs/Luke scene in ANH. Take out the bad stuff that you mentioned, and keep the good changes, and you have a really good SE of the trilogy.

I would still want the UOT as it is an important piece of history. Plus, there is a lot of childhood nostalgia there. I say release a "Final" SE cut keeping the good changes and eliminating the bad ones alongside the UOT for the Ultimate SW set

[The Fallen Deity]

Lucas was probably making it up as he went along.

Also Disney should just release a massive overkill box set containing all 6 films with every single cut that's available for the films.

The Phantom Menace: Theatrical Cut, DVD Cut & Blu-Ray Cut.
Attack Of The Clones: Theatrical Cut, DVD Cut & Blu-Ray Cut.
Revenge Of The Sith: Theatrical Cut
A New Hope: Theatrical Cut + 1997, 2004 & 2011 Special Editions.
The Empire Strikes Back: Theatrical Cut + 1997, 2004 & 2011 Special Editions.
Return Of The Jedi: Theatrical Cut + 1997, 2004 & 2011 Special Editions.

Also every single special feature ever made for all the films should be compiled together including trailers, documentaries, deleted scenes etc.

Also for s**ts an' giggles they should include the Holiday Special and the Ewok films as easter eggs.

I'd pay good money for a box set like that.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

LFL logo, 'A long time ago..', STAR WARS, job done. If they want to put any music over the LFL logo then I'd love it to be a classic SW cue, like the first few seconds of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soNidwqk1U4

I'm looking for an OLD post of mine and I came across this...

Star Wars: A New Hope Soundtrack - 08. Tales Of A Jedi Knight/Learn About The Force* - YouTube

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

They should release all versions of each movie together, but Separately!

A New Hope
- Theatrical
- Red Cyan 3D
- Special Edition
- DVD Edition
- BD Edition
- 3D
- 2 Bonus Features Disks

The Empire Strikes Back
- Theatrical
- Special Edition
- DVD Edition
- BD Edition
- 3D
- 2 Bonus Features Disks

Return of the Jedi
- Theatrical
- Special Edition
- DVD Edition
- BD Edition
- 3D
- 2 Bonus Features Disks

The Phantom Menace
- Theatrical
- DVD Edition
- BD Edition
- 3D
- 2 Bonus Features Disks

Attack of the Clones
- Theatrical Film Edition
- Theatrical Digital Edition
- IMax Edition
- DVD Edition
- BD Edition
- 3D
- 2 Bonus Features Disks

Revenge of the Sith
- Theatrical
- BD Edition
- 3D
- 2 Bonus Features Disks

************************************************** ********************************************
Newly edited version of this:
************************************************** ********************************************
They should release each movie Individually but include all versions of each movie that came out previously. For each film, add 2 distinct Blu-Ray Bonus Disks FILLED with Special Features to each movie. I want them to use all 50Gb on the Bonus Disks! Port over ALL Legacy Special Features! No Movie in this "set" gets The same Bonus Disk. They are all different from each other, like Harry Potter's "Creating the World of..." Disks
Pretty much, turn each film into a Blade Runner-Like Set!
Each set should be at least 6 Disks!

Star Wars: Episode I: The Phantom Menace - 6 Disks
- Theatrical
- 2001 DVD Edition
- 2011 BD Edition
- 2015 BD Edition
- 3D Conversion
- 2 Bonus Features Disks

Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones - 7 Disks
- Theatrical Film Edition
- Theatrical Digital Edition
- IMax Edition
- 2002 DVD Edition
- 2011 BD Edition
- 2015 BD Edition
- 3D Conversion
- 2 Bonus Features Disks

Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith - 6 Disks
- Theatrical
- 2005 DVD Edition
- 2011 BD Edition
- 2015 BD Edition
- 3D Conversion
- 2 Bonus Features Disks

Star Wars: Episode IV: A New Hope - 8 Disks
- Theatrical
- Red/Cyan 3D
- Special Edition
- 2004 DVD Edition
- 2011 BD Edition
- 2015 BD Edition
- 3D Conversion
- 2 Bonus Features Disks

Star Wars: Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back - 7 Disks
- Theatrical
- Special Edition
- 2004 DVD Edition
- 2011 BD Edition
- 2015 BD Edition
- 3D Conversion
- 2 Bonus Features Disks

Star Wars: Episode VI: Return of the Jedi - 7 Disks
- Theatrical
- Special Edition
- 2004 DVD Edition
- 2011 BD Edition
- 2015 BD Edition
- 3D Conversion
- 2 Bonus Features Disks

Here we go. Found the post I made last year...

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Those who care about the unaltered trilogy don't care about the existence of a Special Edition per se, they care about the lack of the availability of the Original Trilogy in high quality.

[Show spoiler]It's not an issue of "compromise," they can release as many SE's as they like so long as they also released the UOT and everyone would be happy. They'd like a UOT not only because they prefer to watch it as it originally appeared theatrically but also because they recognize the fact that from the standpoint of cinema history it's important to preserve the original release as an artifact of American film history and for posterity. It's a shame for it not to exist in high quality for public consumption for the same reason it would be a shame if a landmark piece of literature or music would suddenly become unavailable and lost forever, and only a subjectively "updated and improved" version offered in its stead.
It's for the reason that when the National Film Registry made a request to have copies of the film for preservation and Lucas sent them Special Editions, they were denied..

Which makes this quote from Lucas 30 years ago especially ironic:

See, that's where the problem lies. When Lucas was talking, he was talking about things like colorizing black and white movies and doing other things that were made without the director's consent. Part of the fear was that Turner was going to colorize all his old films and then that would be the only way to see them. With Star Wars, Lucas doesn't have that issue in his mind because he owns them and he is the one who created them - it isn't someone else making changes that he doesn't agree with, he is making those changes. He doesn't see it as altering an original, he sees his changes as completing it which is why he doesn't think this applies to him. That is the problem - who has the right to make the change? Does a producer? Lucas produced movies that were based off of his ideas - the director was pretty much hired just to film what Lucas wanted so does he have any say? Certainly in the case of Empire and Jedi, Lucas's opinion seems to be more important than thiers. Turner owned the films - can't he do whatever he wants with his product? If not, why can Lucas then? Does owning and having created make you exempt from this? A more modern issue - we get a lot of movies released on blu-ray that are different from the theatrical versions(extended versions). Should the studio be forced to release the original theatrical cut of that? Or what about cases where the director's cut gets released - should the studio be forced to release both the director's cut and the theatrical version? That is where director's like Lucas seem to have a narrow vision - they want thier films and the films they like to stay as they want and remember them but they have no issue making changes to their own work and saying "this is the proper version, not that old version". Don't you think everyone who makes a change things they are improving it? Don't you think Turner thought more people would watch Casablanca if it was in color and therefore this classic would have a new life? It also brings up the question of what you are preserving. I just bought A Streetcar Names Desire - a "restored" version that puts stuff back that was cut out due to censors. People love that film but they love the version that was released and this isn't the same version but it is the version they would have released if they could have. Which is the proper version to save and protect? It is just a mess because you can't make one sweeping decision that covers every film yet who then has the right to say version A needs to be saved but version B doesn't.

[Himmel]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Here we go. Found the post I made last year...

And this comes from what...your proven contacts, or your fantastical dream you had??

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Terminated

And this comes from what...your proven contacts, or your fantastical dream you had??

My wishlist.
This way EVERYBODY is happy and stops b*tching!

[Himmel]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

My wishlist.
This way EVERYBODY is happy and stops b*tching!

I agree.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by octagon

And then there's the other end of the spectrum where he devotes large swaths of the first film to laying the groundwork for a reveal he couldn't quite bring himself to pull the trigger on by the time he did the third film.

There are a lot of unfair/unreasonable double standards applied to the two trilogies but there is one definite area where a two standards are justified: The OT was not written from the ground up as one grand trilogy. The PT was. Or at least it should have been.

Yeah, that all circles back around to the reactionary nature of how the PT unfolded behind the scenes, and it's a horrible irony that the stuff he DID have planned out (or at least planned to address) ended up being merely hinted at instead of being carried through to fruition.

The OT gets cut a lot of slack because it really WAS made on the hoof, but applying the same sort of "see what sticks" approach to the PT when he had that much time to plan it all out was a huge mistake IMO.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Gaius Marius

I actually agree with much of what you said here. I also like the enhanced Battle of Yavin and the Biggs/Luke scene in ANH. Take out the bad stuff that you mentioned, and keep the good changes, and you have a really good SE of the trilogy.

I would still want the UOT as it is an important piece of history. Plus, there is a lot of childhood nostalgia there. I say release a "Final" SE cut keeping the good changes and eliminating the bad ones alongside the UOT for the Ultimate SW set

Agreed 100%. And I didn't mean to imply that I don't want to see the UOT available, because I do if only for reference purposes. However I think it would be a mistake for Disney to completely discard the Special Editions because quite a lot of the changes really are for the better and I prefer over the originals. Like you said, Disney just needs to use the good sense to change back the things that fans overwhelmingly disapprove of and keep in the things that work.

The one thing that Lucas never did fix in the Special Editions...and it's one thing a lot of fans were screaming for...was lightsaber consistency across all films. I thought just for the sake of continuity the sabers should at least look identical across all 6 films. Instead we go from having thick blades with white cores and round tips in Episodes 1 and 2 to having think blades with white cores and pointy tips in Episode 3. Then from there you have thin, shoddy looking blades with no white core in Episode 4 to slightly thicker blades and no white core in episode 5 to thick blades with no white core in episode 6. Don't even get me started on Vader's "pink" saber! It blows my mind that of all the changes/updates Lucas did to the OT, lightsaber consistency was the one thing he didn't bother addressing!

I know aside from the major things I listed before, there are a few other minor things I'd love to see reinstated. Things like original dialogue in ESB in the scene on Dagobah where R2 gets swallowed and spat out by the swamp creature. Originally Luke tells R2D2 "you're lucky you don't taste very good." The new line goes "you were lucky to get out of there." NEVER understood why Lucas thought that should have ever been changed. Also when Vader originally says "Bring my shuttle" and now it's that "alert my star destroyer of my arrival" or something like that.

[Angel Eyes]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Agreed 100%. And I didn't mean to imply that I don't want to see the UOT available, because I do if only for reference purposes. However I think it would be a mistake for Disney to completely discard the Special Editions because quite a lot of the changes really are for the better and I prefer over the originals. Like you said, Disney just needs to use the good sense to change back the things that fans overwhelmingly disapprove of and keep in the things that work.

The one thing that Lucas never did fix in the Special Editions...and it's one thing a lot of fans were screaming for...was lightsaber consistency across all films. I thought just for the sake of continuity the sabers should at least look identical across all 6 films. Instead we go from having thick blades with white cores and round tips in Episodes 1 and 2 to having think blades with white cores and pointy tips in Episode 3. Then from there you have thin, shoddy looking blades with no white core in Episode 4 to slightly thicker blades and no white core in episode 5 to thick blades with no white core in episode 6. Don't even get me started on Vader's "pink" saber! It blows my mind that of all the changes/updates Lucas did to the OT, lightsaber consistency was the one thing he didn't bother addressing!

Well one thing you missed was Boba Fetts voice in TESB. That's pretty high on the list right up there with Han shooting first.

[The Fallen Deity]

Watching the BD of A New Hope today has reminded me of how heavily crushed the blacks are.

I mean there's literally zero shadow detail.

The Lowry transfers are the best home video transfers of the films to date but there's so many issues with them.

Not just the black crush.

You've also got:

Over-saturated colours.
Weird tints
Extremely awful looking lightsabers (cores that are either too dim or missing completely and also incorrectly coloured).
DNR
EE
Fake grain added on top of the DNR'ed image (a Lowry trademark in their early years).

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by wormraper

I've been a firm believer in that for over 15 years... I'm not being rude to him, but I honestly believe he has clinical OCD to a certain extent

No, no, no, no, no. Making minor edits to a few films every seven years or so is not even remotely an indicator of OCD. Just have to nip this one in the bud right now because it shows a profound misunderstanding of the disorder. There's no way that ol' one-take, "good enough" Lucas has any form of OCD. Not to mention that he's calm as a cucumber in every interview or documentary I've ever seen, seems to make decisions quickly, improvises details a lot without looking back, and of course, there's literally nothing in the public eye to even hint at that possibility. A few special effects tweaks every decade does not equate to obsessive thoughts and compulsive behaviors.

Also, to those remarking on the 16 years to work on E1, that's like saying that somebody who got married at age 30 had 30 years to plan their wedding. He didn't spend the entire lull writing Star Wars scripts cause he was doing other things. He started writing TPM in the late 90s. You could argue that he should have waited longer to start filming, but let's not pretend that the PT was slow cooking for two decades.

[Geoff D]

Sure goat, he didn't spend that long cooking up the SW prequels, but the point that some folks are making is that maybe he should've done, instead of attempting to wing this dense, multi-layered story by the seat of his pants.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by thegoat

No, no, no, no, no. Making minor edits to a few films every seven years or so is not even remotely an indicator of OCD. Just have to nip this one in the bud right now because it shows a profound misunderstanding of the disorder. There's no way that ol' one-take, "good enough" Lucas has any form of OCD. Not to mention that he's calm as a cucumber in every interview or documentary I've ever seen, seems to make decisions quickly, improvises details a lot without looking back, and of course, there's literally nothing in the public eye to even hint at that possibility. A few special effects tweaks every decade does not equate to obsessive thoughts and compulsive behaviors.

Also, to those remarking on the 16 years to work on E1, that's like saying that somebody who got married at age 30 had 30 years to plan their wedding. He didn't spend the entire lull writing Star Wars scripts cause he was doing other things. He started writing TPM in the late 90s. You could argue that he should have waited longer to start filming, but let's not pretend that the PT was slow cooking for two decades.

Re-Editing them the first time that he could improve the special effects etc I can completely understand.

Doing it a second time down the road so that he can make all 6 films consistent with each other I can also understand.

But doing it a third time for no apparent is beyond ridiculous especially considering the edits he did for the BD's were stupid and pointless.

He just felt like he had to tinker even more with them for whatever reason.

That is definitely OCD behavior.

There's many different types of OCD and the levels of severity.

His might not be as severe as others but he's definitely got some form of it.

It would explain a lot really tbh.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

Watching the BD of A New Hope today has reminded me of how heavily crushed the blacks are.

I mean there's literally zero shadow detail.

The Lowry transfers are the best home video transfers of the films to date but there's so many issues with them.

Not just the black crush.

You've also got:

Over-saturated colours.
Weird tints
Extremely awful looking lightsabers (cores that are either too dim or missing completely and also incorrectly coloured).
DNR
EE
Fake grain added on top of the DNR'ed image (a Lowry trademark in their early years).

Yep, all in all, they are pretty crappy. They look even worse projected.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Yep, all in all, they are pretty crappy. They look even worse projected.

The best way to sum them up really is that they don't really look filmic.

They look very digital and processed.

The BD's were such a missed opportunity.

The films should've been re-scanned, given a better colour correction and had less digital processing applied to them.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

The best way to sum them up really is that they don't really look filmic.

They look very digital and processed.

The BD's were such a missed opportunity.

The films should've been re-scanned, given a better colour correction and had less digital processing applied to them.

Indeed. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it's beyond ridiculous they are still selling Star Wars of all of things with 11-year-old scans. You've got B horror movies getting new scans which blow these away. Something is wrong.

[The Fallen Deity]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...gy_DVD_release

This list is really accurate.

It documents all the changes that have been done to all 6 films over the years.

Yes that's right all 6.

Even Revenge Of The Sith has been altered.

I didn't realize that until now.