Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Sith is such a bipolar viewing experience for me. There is the bad stuff, which is as bad as anything in the previous two movies, at times arguably worse. But then there are the good bits, like your examples above, which at their best are genuinely great. It's fascinating how I can alternate between loving it and shaking my head in disbelief just going from one scene to the next, and when it's over I can never quite sort my feelings out.

Yeah....Steven Spielberg comes in to ghost direct key scenes. When that camera panned down to the feet of the Clones in the Order 66 sequenqe, I sat up in my chair..."Wow! Lucas is alive!"

Nope. Turned out it was Spielberg giving a silent assist to his good buddy. Nothing wrong with that -- Gone With the Wind was shot by three directors -- but the best moment in the whole movie is Lucas: Anakin and PAdme separated by distance, staring out windows, thinking about each other...that was great.

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

In ROTS, Yoda specifically says the Dark Side of the Force has clouded the council's abilities to use the Force.

But Yoda also says the Dark side isn't as strong as the Light.

I have to confess, by that point in RotS I figured Lucas was applying the band-aids and chewing gum on the fly, and I think I stopped taking in a lot of the dialogue. It wasn't persuasive.

Anyway. My intention is not to rubbish SW -- I only stepped into the topic of story anomalies Lucas created that he really could (should) have avoided because I find the PT in particular very frustrating to watch alongside the spectacle and amazing ideas.

[seannyd]

The best way I have ever been able to describe it is that Lucas had a bunch of round holes for the original trilogy, and then kept trying to shove oblong pegs into those holes during the prequels. He makes it work but there are parts that definitely shouldn't go together.

What really confuses me is why Lucas returned to directing. All he talks about in the Star Wars and Empire making of books is how much he hates directing. And then he spends 10 years of his life writing and directing three movies? It's such a weird choice.

[KillaCam]

Does anyone know if the soon to be released steelbox single movies are the same disc as is in the complete saga?

[matirocker]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

Leia's memories of her mother are easy to accept if you look at them this way: Leia's memories are of Bail Organa's wife Breha, who presumably died when Leia was young for reasons not specified.

YES!! THIS!!! I've been saying it for years but people always seem to ignore it to continue their prequel bashing. Instead of looking it this way, which is the most realistic and obvious line of thought, people keep trying to come up with impossible theories of how could Leia remember Padme, correct me if I'm wrong, but Leia didn't really know she was adopted, did she? Even if she knew, to me it was always obvious that she was referring to her adoptive mother from Alderaan.

Now, an incongruence I do have problems with, is how in the OT Obi Wan tells Luke that Yoda trained him, but in the PT Obi Wan is Qui-Gon's apprentice, not Yoda's. What's the explanation? Did they tried to fix it with that little scene in the end of ROTS where Yoda tells Obi Wan he'll teach him to communicate with Qui Gon? I don't know...

Another incongruence I hate is how Obi Wan claims he doesn't know R2-D2... how could he! Was R2 that forgettable or there were truly thousands like him around?

[Petey Parker]

Originally Posted by matirocker

Another incongruence I hate is how Obi Wan claims he doesn't know R2-D2... how could he! Was R2 that forgettable or there were truly thousands like him around?

I wish I could find it but it's been so long since I read it but there are actually people who claim the look on Obi Wan's face when he says that seems to imply that he wasn't telling the truth or at least not exactly lying because he didn't really own the Droids. They belonged to Anakin. There really are people out there who will defend to the death any inconsistencies as all "part of the plan"

[linapotente]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Hayden was added in the 2004 DVD release.

Yes and it was quite annoying because Hayden played Anakin as a whiny pathetic weasel. How could that turn into a powerful and quite memorable villian? Having Hayden play the future Darth Vader was awful , which is why I don't like "Attack of The Clones" or "Revenge of the Jedi" (I hate "The Phantom Menace" for many other reasons.).
Darth Vader yelling "NOOOO" was bad enough, but seeing Haydens face at the end of "Return of the Jedi" was a slap in the face to what I considered my favorite "Star Wars" movie.
Yes it was added in the 2004 DVD release, but it has remained for all Bluray releases, and it is terrible.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Petey Parker

I wish I could find it but it's been so long since I read it but there are actually people who claim the look on Obi Wan's face when he says that seems to imply that he wasn't telling the truth. There really are people out there who will defend to the death any inconsistencies as all "part of the plan"

To be fair, Obi-Wan lies a lot (yes, this is because Lucas started retconning stuff already by Empire, but in-universe the explanation is still that he lied and told half-truths) in that movie, so I can believe he just pretended not to know R2 there to avoid having to go into all of that with Luke.

[bookcase]

Originally Posted by linapotente

Yes and it was quite annoying because Hayden played Anakin as a whiny pathetic weasel. How could that turn into a powerful and quite memorable villian? Having Hayden play the future Darth Vader was awful , which is why I don't like "Attack of The Clones" or "Revenge of the Jedi" (I hate "The Phantom Menace" for many other reasons.).
Darth Vader yelling "NOOOO" was bad enough, but seeing Haydens face at the end of "Return of the Jedi" was a slap in the face to what I considered my favorite "Star Wars" movie.
Yes it was added in the 2004 DVD release, but it has remained for all Bluray releases, and it is terrible.

I understand the decision: to tie the trilogies together. I'm not a fan of the choice, but I've had to accept that the OT is flawed, yet still brilliant. The prequel trilogy is just flawed.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Petey Parker

I wish I could find it but it's been so long since I read it but there are actually people who claim the look on Obi Wan's face when he says that seems to imply that he wasn't telling the truth or at least not exactly lying because he didn't really own the Droids. They belonged to Anakin. There really are people out there who will defend to the death any inconsistencies as all "part of the plan"

That reminds me of The Joker's little monologue in Dark Knight about how everyone thinks he's got a grand plan but he's just winging it. Sums up Lucas' Star Wars storytelling perfectly IMO.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

To be fair, Obi-Wan lies a lot (yes, this is because Lucas started retconning stuff already by Empire, but in-universe the explanation is still that he lied and told half-truths) in that movie, so I can believe he just pretended not to know R2 there to avoid having to go into all of that with Luke.

things become MUCH easier when you ignore the PT all together...

[Arch Stanton]

Originally Posted by matirocker

YES!! THIS!!! I've been saying it for years but people always seem to ignore it to continue their prequel bashing. Instead of looking it this way, which is the most realistic and obvious line of thought, people keep trying to come up with impossible theories of how could Leia remember Padme, correct me if I'm wrong, but Leia didn't really know she was adopted, did she? Even if she knew, to me it was always obvious that she was referring to her adoptive mother from Alderaan.

Now, an incongruence I do have problems with, is how in the OT Obi Wan tells Luke that Yoda trained him, but in the PT Obi Wan is Qui-Gon's apprentice, not Yoda's. What's the explanation? Did they tried to fix it with that little scene in the end of ROTS where Yoda tells Obi Wan he'll teach him to communicate with Qui Gon? I don't know...

Another incongruence I hate is how Obi Wan claims he doesn't know R2-D2... how could he! Was R2 that forgettable or there were truly thousands like him around?

George Lucas had over twenty years to sort this stuff out. Some of the continuity problems that have to be lamely explained by "it was the force" and so forth are really quite unforgivable.

[linapotente]

Originally Posted by bookcase

I understand the decision: to tie the trilogies together. I'm not a fan of the choice, but I've had to accept that the OT is flawed, yet still brilliant. The prequel trilogy is just flawed.

Yes the prequel trilogy is quite flawed. Their decision to tie all the trilogies together was also flawed. We were quite content with seeing an older Anakins ghost. I'm surprised that they didn't add a CGI perplexed look on Lukes face when he saw a different person as his fathers ghost. All trilogies could have been tied together by just their content. There really as no need for us to see the young Anakin ghost or Darth Vader yelling in the exact same manner that he yelled when he thought he murdered Padme.
I don't see that as tying in all the trilogies. I see it more of a dumbing down of the "good" trilogies.
Many other movies are released on Bluray with several versions (theatrical release, directors cut, extended, unrated, etc.). It is unfortunate that Mr. Lucas does not release several versions, so that we (the fans) can pick the "Star Wars" we grew up with and loved.

[CinemaBlu]

Originally Posted by matirocker

Now, an incongruence I do have problems with, is how in the OT Obi Wan tells Luke that Yoda trained him, but in the PT Obi Wan is Qui-Gon's apprentice, not Yoda's. What's the explanation? Did they tried to fix it with that little scene in the end of ROTS where Yoda tells Obi Wan he'll teach him to communicate with Qui Gon? I don't know...

Yoda trains all Jedi younglings until they're ready to serve as an apprentice to a Jedi Knight.

Originally Posted by matirocker

Another incongruence I hate is how Obi Wan claims he doesn't know R2-D2... how could he! Was R2 that forgettable or there were truly thousands like him around?

R2-D2 and C-3PO have more of a connection to the viewers than to the characters themselves. Droids are the lowliest creatures in the Star Wars universe, that's why they're often disrespected. They're anthropomorphized but they're really just machines. We, the viewers, care for R2-D2 and C-3PO because we're often experiencing the world of the story through their POV.

[wesslan]

Didn't see this anywhere here

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by matirocker

Another incongruence I hate is how Obi Wan claims he doesn't know R2-D2... how could he! Was R2 that forgettable or there were truly thousands like him around?

Every starfighter had one. Padme's Naboo cruiser had several by itself. Common utility droid.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by matirocker

Now, an incongruence I do have problems with, is how in the OT Obi Wan tells Luke that Yoda trained him, but in the PT Obi Wan is Qui-Gon's apprentice, not Yoda's.

I always thought he meant that he'd been taught and trained by Yoda, like we see the Younglings been taught. He apprenticed with Qui-Gon.

Another incongruence I hate is how Obi Wan claims he doesn't know R2-D2... how could he! Was R2 that forgettable or there were truly thousands like him around?

If you use a Black & Decker at work, do you own it? The droids were just tools he used, he didn't personally own them. Plus been on Tatooine for all those years has probably seen him go through several bouts of sun-stroke.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by bookcase

I understand the decision: to tie the trilogies together. I'm not a fan of the choice, but I've had to accept that the OT is flawed, yet still brilliant. The prequel trilogy is just flawed.

Original Star Wars= Space Opera, cheesy but earnest.....A product of it's time.

Prequel Star Wars= Video games made for the OCD/Asperger generation.....A product of it's time.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

George Lucas had over twenty years to sort this stuff out. Some of the continuity problems that have to be lamely explained by "it was the force" and so forth are really quite unforgivable.

This, to me, is the one true unforgivable sin of the PT. The major inconsistencies and plot holes between the two trilogies could have been easily taken care of - in some cases, he introduced new ones seemingly on purpose for no discernible good reason.

In any case, due to Rinzler's books on the OT, officially sanctioned by and with all the data from the Lucasfilm Archives, we know definitively that things like Leia and Luke being brother and sister, etc., or even that Vader was Anakin, were not decided until the respective films they appeared in. Anakin and Vader were two distinct characters until well into writing ESB, for example.

If he didn't even have that planned out, he didn't have the bridge between the OT and the PT planned out...in fact the PT was originally going to focus on Obi-wan, not Vader, until rather late in the game (after Ewan had been cast).

[Geoff D]

Don't forget that Obi-Wan was originally going to be older in Ep I, i.e. the master not the apprentice, which would make his elderly appearance & all the 'old man' jibes in Ep IV much more believable (forget about all that 'Tatooine Sun' bullshit, dude just looks old, pure and simple).

Qui-Gon was supposed to be the apprentice who Obi-Wan was going to lose which made him only more determined and stubborn to train Anakin (and wouldn't have contradicted the 'trained by Yoda' stuff in Ep V, younglings Ep II retcon aside) but when Liam Neeson started sniffing around Lucas decided to flip it and make Qui-Gon the master and Obi-Wan the young upstart (though Qui-Gon dies either way). Like I said, dude winged it.