Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[MacEachaidh]

Thanks svenge, yes that makes sense.

I guess what complicates it is that different people got on the train at very different points, so expectations vary. And, of course, Lucas' well-known habit of changing his mind on what he "always intended'.

[TimD]

Originally Posted by DuaneB

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know when the last time the original theatrical versions aired on television? I'm guessing probably sometime in late '95 or early '96.

They premiered on network television in 1983, 1987, and 1989. I don't recall them being aired often after that. It might seem hard to believe now, but Star Wars was sort of in a state of cultural suspension from about 1986-1993.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by TimD

It might seem hard to believe now, but Star Wars was sort of in a state of cultural suspension from about 1986-1993.

Quite true.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by TimD

It might seem hard to believe now, but Star Wars was sort of in a state of cultural suspension from about 1986-1993.

At the risk of sounding curmudgeony, I seriously wonder if it would have been better for the franchise to stay relatively suspended.

Most sci-fi films (even far less successful ones) from the late 70s - early 80s got reasonably good BD releases that weren't scarred by revisionism, and honestly nothing in the Star Wars franchise created from 1984 on would be greatly missed had it never existed.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by svenge

At the risk of sounding curmudgeony, I seriously wonder if it would have been better for the franchise to stay relatively suspended.

Most sci-fi films (even far less successful ones) from the late 70s - early 80s got reasonably good BD releases that weren't scarred by revisionism, and honestly nothing in the Star Wars franchise created from 1984 on would be greatly missed had it never existed.

I kind-of agree with this curmudgeon.

There was something really SPECIAL about the three STAR WARS flicks back then. There was a trickle of novels (about Han Solo, etc), a comic book series and a Droids cartoon. But there certainly wasn't the market saturation we have today -- and that STAR TREK had, even back then. In comparison, the STAR WARS flicks were really unique. There was nothing else that felt like 'em. It was kind of a cool time to be a STAR WARS fan in the late-80's/early-90's, and whenever you put in those original three movies, you were transported in a way that no other movie, TV show or novel could accomplish.

That said, I can't friggin' wait 'til Episode 7.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

why wouldn't he appear in the only form Luke's ever seen him in, as he originally did in the first cut of the film?

Luke never saw him in that form.

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

and planned that way from the start.

This does not follow. You can make a change without expecting people to believe it was always planned that way.

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

if you have to go outside a film for public statements to make any sense of a moment in the film

You don't necessarily have to. The role of public statements is not that they are absolutely required to explain the film, but that they address the inevitable "this makes no sense and has no possible explanation" stance.

Originally Posted by svenge

while pointless and revolting to those who saw and appreciate the original version of the OT

"Anyone who disagrees with me must be one of those damn millennials!"

[al cos.]

Jesus, more bullet points, that's not ever going to get old.

[wd40cloud]

Originally Posted by DuaneB

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know when the last time the original theatrical versions aired on television? I'm guessing probably sometime in late '95 or early '96.

My local WB affiliate (Boston) showed it in primetime on a Tuesday night in May of 1997. I have the tape stashed away somewhere.

Also, USA used to show EMPIRE and JEDI quite frequently in the late 90s.

[JackKnightStarman]

Originally Posted by wd40cloud

My local WB affiliate (Boston) showed it in primetime on a Tuesday night in May of 1997. I have the tape stashed away somewhere.

Also, USA used to show EMPIRE and JEDI quite frequently in the late 90s.

Originally Posted by DuaneB

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know when the last time the original theatrical versions aired on television? I'm guessing probably sometime in late '95 or early '96.

USA network and Sci-fi had exclusive rights of IV V VI from about 1990-1995, and used to run them on holidays and weekends. Lucas pulled them from rotation, starting in January 1996 in preparation for the Special Editions.

The OT has not aired since then, as Lucas said that the THX VHS versions, and TV rights were pulled in 95. Since 97, with exception of the DVD releases that included the OT versions ported from Laserdisc, only the '97, and '04 versions have aired on HBO and cable. Anyone saying otherwise is wrong.

[tylergfoster]

I agree with the reasoning that if the film does not explain its reasoning for something depicted within elsewhere in the story, then that's a mistake on the part of the filmmakers. The Anakin change is dumb because you do HAVE to go outside the film (main place: Lucas' commentary) to understand why he made the alteration.

Plus, his logic doesn't even hold up if Vader found a bit of his original goodness in his final moments, and on top of all that, it adds nothing to the story. It doesn't make it a more satisfying moment. You can explain it in a semi-sensical way, but why not just have it the way it was to begin with?

[happydood]

Originally Posted by svenge

At the risk of sounding curmudgeony, I seriously wonder if it would have been better for the franchise to stay relatively suspended.

Most sci-fi films (even far less successful ones) from the late 70s - early 80s got reasonably good BD releases that weren't scarred by revisionism, and honestly nothing in the Star Wars franchise created from 1984 on would be greatly missed had it never existed.

Well, I'd certainly be okay with the originals remaining untouched, but there is a whole generation out there that grew up with and loves the prequels. And I'm an enjoy-them-for- what- they -are fan who saw Star Wars in the theater when I was a kid, so I like the newer ones, but with some distance. But there are young adults out there to whom the prequels are Star Wars, like it or not. And like it or not, we're getting old.

And I certainly respect Lucas for trying to remain relevant, even while he fails for a super vocal part of his fanbase. The original movies still exist and WILL be released, even with his Disney like hubris, but to wish things never existed might be a fun daydream, It's just not reasonable in the end.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by tylergfoster

I agree with the reasoning that if the film does not explain its reasoning for something depicted within elsewhere in the story, then that's a mistake on the part of the filmmakers. The Anakin change is dumb because you do HAVE to go outside the film (main place: Lucas' commentary) to understand why he made the alteration.

Plus, his logic doesn't even hold up if Vader found a bit of his original goodness in his final moments, and on top of all that, it adds nothing to the story. It doesn't make it a more satisfying moment. You can explain it in a semi-sensical way, but why not just have it the way it was to begin with?

It's a spiritual statement. I have no intention of discussing religion on Blu-Ray.com, so I'll just ask you this....does it really matter what his Force-Ghost looks like? Would it be more acceptable if he appears before Luke as an aging man with two amputated legs, missing his right arm, and his entire body charred and scarred?

[Porco Azzurro]

Originally Posted by tylergfoster

I agree with the reasoning that if the film does not explain its reasoning for something depicted within elsewhere in the story, then that's a mistake on the part of the filmmakers. The Anakin change is dumb because you do HAVE to go outside the film (main place: Lucas' commentary) to understand why he made the alteration.

Plus, his logic doesn't even hold up if Vader found a bit of his original goodness in his final moments, and on top of all that, it adds nothing to the story. It doesn't make it a more satisfying moment. You can explain it in a semi-sensical way, but why not just have it the way it was to begin with?

I respectfully disagree completely, to me it makes perfect sense, and does so purely in the movie (just RotJ, never mind if the viewer has seen the other five).

Given that Luke has already seen Obi-Wan as a force ghost in the same film, and seen Yoda become one with the force, in the same film, it's extremely obvious that he would know who Anakin was immediately. For one thing, whatever you think of casting, he could (in the film's universe) see the resemblence to the older Anakin under the mask.

Secondly, he had just cremated Vader, so it is entirely logical, even if he didn't recognise Anakin as a force ghost, to assume that is who he is. Less certain, but still reasonable IMHO, is that as we know Luke has had training with Yoda, he could touched upon the deal with retaining your image after death, making it even more obvious to Luke who Anakin was.

Finally, it's established in the films on multiple occasions that force-sensitive characters feel each other's presence - Vader senses Obi-wan, Leia senses Luke, Luke senses Vader. So in my view it is not an incredible leap to assume Luke knows who Anakin's force ghost is, even if he had his eyes closed(!).

I do get that some people would just like the original trilogy to remain more like it was originally released, and of course people will disagree about certain changes, on both sides, which is fine, we are not all Simon Peggs. But this idea that the HC Anakin force ghost doesn't make sense seems odd to me. To me, the rationale and the logic and the emotional weight are all right up there on screen, in the movie(s).

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Porco Azzurro

But this idea that the HC Anakin force ghost doesn't make sense seems odd to me. To me, the rationale and the logic and the emotional weight are all right up there on screen, in the movie(s).

From my perspective Anakin didn't become one with the Force until Vader dropped Palps down the ventilation shaft, so to see young Anakin makes no sense, both Obi-Wan and Yoda are representations of their older selves. It would have made far more apt if Anakin was older as a ghost, the young Anakin represented wasn't at peace with his midichorians, he was all turmoil , tantrums and rage.

It would have also made more sense if George had added a scene with the older Anakin into the original movies, it didn't have to be much, just Luke looking at a hologram recording of a father he knows very little about.

But a Return of the Jedi opening with a Anakin and Obi-Wan flashback on a previous adventure would have been neat, then we'd get to know and recognise the Sebastian Shaw Anakin a bit more.

[Geoff D]

So they should've Last Crusaded it? Not sold on that idea.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Hayden Christensen as Vader's force ghost really doesn't make much sense... but even if it did make absolute perfect sense in the context of the Original Trilogy it would still make no difference as to the effectiveness or quality of the alteration. It would still be bizarre and laughably out of place. Seeing Anakin's dopey smirking ghost appear out of absolutely nowhere borders on comedy. You could have Hayden Christensen overdub James Earl Jones' dialogue as Vader, and that would make perfect sense within the context of the storyline, and it would still be awful none the less. The "NOOOOOOOOOO" added to Vader at the end of Jedi for some sort of synergy between that scene and the absurd scene in RotS when he's Frankenstein's monster is awful not because it "doesn't make sense", it's awful because it's totally bizarre, jarring, and inexplicable. Those are my exact same complaints with Hayden's force ghost appearance. It's totally cringe-worthy, the exact same sort of cringe-worthiness an alteration like Jedi Rocks has, but to a lesser extent.

[KrugStillo]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Well, a) that's horsehockey, and b) Lucas doesn't own any of the materials anymore. Every scrap of negative is property of LucasFilm and therefore, by extension, their corporate parent.

Unfortunately, your comment means nothing if Lucas has the negatives in his possession. Disney can only work with the materials they have and if they don't have anything HD worthy than we will continue to get the altered versions for years to come. If the special editions were SD this would be a different story but they are probably satisfied with the 2K masters they currently have. Plus I'm not sure that Disney (or Lucasfilm) actually have any right to Lucas's negatives. All they would require is a quality master to continue to distribute and that they have. Lucas will probably arm himself with a laser gun and lock himself and the negatives into a vault so no one can get to him. It'll be like Butch Cassidy up there at the ranch.

[Geoff D]

I think you misunderstand, the negatives (along with everything else related to Star Wars) were never owned directly by Lucas but by Lucasfilm Ltd. When that corporate entity was sold to Disney everything went with it, including the vast LFL archives.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by KrugStillo

Unfortunately, your comment means nothing if Lucas has the negatives in his possession. Disney can only work with the materials they have and if they don't have anything HD worthy than we will continue to get the altered versions for years to come.

I don't think you understand what happened when Lucas sold LucasFilm. Floor to rafter. Vault to front door. Pie in the sky to tear in the eye. Disney owns it all. Lucas got $2 billion in Disney stock, and $2 billion in cash, a lot of which he donated to education charities. Anyhoo, Disney is borderline fanatical about their archives and preserving their properties, I'm sure they were professional but methodical in logging the materials they just purchased from LucasFilm for $4 billion dollars starting Day One -- especially the film negatives and archives.

If the special editions were SD this would be a different story but they are probably satisfied with the 2K masters they currently have. Plus I'm not sure that Disney (or Lucasfilm) actually have any right to Lucas's negatives. All they would require is a quality master to continue to distribute and that they have. Lucas will probably arm himself with a laser gun and lock himself and the negatives into a vault so no one can get to him. It'll be like Butch Cassidy up there at the ranch.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

horsehockey

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Floor to rafter

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Vault to front door

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Pie in the sky to tear in the eye

Just popping in to give you a little tip-of-the-hat and wink-of-the-anus.