Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But the original ending isn't nearly so egregious as all the other jazz in light of the continuation of the saga. I've read the Thrawn books etc so it's not like I've just sat there with this idyllic notion of the lickle teddy bears' picnic being the final say for Star Wars, but those specific characters have come through and won the day so they (and indeed the audience) deserve that little soirée at the end, it's never struck me as premature when thinking of the wider post-ROTJ world. And sure, when the sequel trilogy really was just fan fiction it was easier to accept the bigger, grander ending as being fine for what it was, but now it feels like a much bigger misstep to me.

The Star Wars Special Editions: the gift that just keeps on giving.

To be fair though, it's TFA that is entirely to blame for this, not the new Jedi ending. As much as the special edition changes get slated for retconning the OT to fit the prequels, TFA basically retcons the entire happy ending so it can continue the story in a dramatic fashion, emulating ANH. So now, in retrospect, the new Jedi ending doesn't seem to work so well (even though I always dug it).

Not that I'm trying to hate on the film, but TFA really changes the perception of what happened after Jedi. This might improve after the trilogy is complete and there's more context, but it's as much of a tonal and story shift as many aspects of the prequels were to fans some 15 odd years ago, IMO.

This is why I think TFA will always feel like a kind of reboot to the saga, rather than flowing smoothly on from Episode VI. Which makes me a little sad, but that's the story they chose to tell, and the way they chose to tell it. I think once the story is complete though (after Episode IX is released), it'll make it less jarring, as your mind will fill in the gaps, knowing what happened that got us from that happy Jedi ending to TFA.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

To be fair though, it's TFA that is entirely to blame for this, not the new Jedi ending. As much as the special edition changes get slated for retconning the OT to fit the prequels, TFA basically retcons the entire happy ending so it can continue the story in a dramatic fashion, emulating ANH. So now, in retrospect, the new Jedi ending doesn't seem to work so well (even though I always dug it).

Not that I'm trying to hate on the film, but TFA really changes the perception of what happened after Jedi. This might improve after the trilogy is complete and there's more context, but it's as much of a tonal and story shift as many aspects of the prequels were to fans some 15 odd years ago, IMO.

This is why I think TFA will always feel like a kind of reboot to the saga, rather than flowing smoothly on from Episode VI. Which makes me a little sad, but that's the story they chose to tell, and the way they chose to tell it. I think once the story is complete though (after Episode IX is released), it'll make it less jarring, as your mind will fill in the gaps, knowing what happened that got us from that happy Jedi ending to TFA.

Not to sound like a broken record, but for the umpteenth time, LucasFilm is sandboxing going out to Episode XII...so two six-film arcs. It's the new world. What did Yoda say? Learn to let go? I'm not saying let go, I'm saying have patience and see what happens.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Not to sound like a broken record, but for the umpteenth time, LucasFilm is sandboxing going out to Episode XII...so two six-film arcs. It's the new world. What did Yoda say? Learn to let go? I'm not saying let go, I'm saying have patience and see what happens.

I know, I was just responding to Jedi getting the flack for the ending, when it's the story direction of the new films that have created this "issue". That's why I said the future films should help with all this, and I realise it's a new starting off point now as much as a continuation. Looking forward to seeing where they go with it.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by milo bloom

I'm of the rare opinion of liking both endings of ROTJ.

If you're just talking about The Holy Trilogy, then the Yub Nub ending is perfect as it's our small group of friends celebrating with a new ally. They met under crazy circumstances but they became the best of friends and pulled off an amazing feat.


If you're talking about the saga (I used to say this even when it was just 6 films), then the multiple celebrations ending is better because you're seeing that this small group of Rebels managed to strike a decisive blow against a galaxy wide Empire. Maybe it wasn't the whole thing, but it was still a major blow to the organization. Now, learning that the First Order exists, it becomes a little more bittersweet, knowing that they did make a difference, but they must have constant vigilance or this type of evil can rise again.

I just wish we we could get the original OT on Bluray so I could actually enjoy both versions again.

Great post and the respective versions works with how Lucas wanted it at the the time. The galaxy celebration doesn't mean the First Order cannot happen. Can they make the comparison anymore obvious? Luke obviously made mistakes and the past repeats itself, ala WWII Nazi symbolism.

I don't understand the mentality of a galaxy celebration guaranteeing there will never be another Empire??? Again, your post nailed it.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Return of the Jedi | All Endings - YouTube

Are those Gungans seen at 3:17? That's the 1997 special edition ending so if they are then that means the Gungans were introduced before The Phantom Menace.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Great post and the respective versions works with how Lucas wanted it at the the time. The galaxy celebration doesn't mean the First Order cannot happen. Can they make the comparison anymore obvious? Luke obviously made mistakes and the past repeats itself, ala WWII Nazi symbolism.

I don't understand the mentality of a galaxy celebration guaranteeing there will never be another Empire??? Again, your post nailed it.

For me, it was never that the celebration meant there could never be another Empire, just that TFA jumps straight to that, without explaining to the audience how it happened. But this is an evolving saga that didn't ever expect to get to a 2nd film, let alone 8. It has jumped around chronologically, starting in the middle, going back to the start, and then continuing, so it's to be expected that these things will happen.

Ultimately, there hasn't been an entirely clear vision of where it would all end up from the start and I think that's what they're trying to avoid from TFA onwards, so there is a clear story arc for the characters, without sudden retcons like Luke and Leia being siblings etc.

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Are those Gungans seen at 3:17? That's the 1997 special edition ending so if they are then that means the Gungans were introduced before The Phantom Menace.

Yes they are, but that scene was added for the 2004 DVD's so after TPM.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Are those Gungans seen at 3:17? That's the 1997 special edition ending so if they are then that means the Gungans were introduced before The Phantom Menace.

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

Yes they are, but that scene was added for the 2004 DVD's so after TPM.

Well, according to that video the ending shown at 3:17 is the 1997 special edition ending. So you're saying whoever made that video made a mistake with the ending shown at 3:17? I've never seen the 1997 special editions.

[Nailwraps]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Well, according to that video the ending shown at 3:17 is the 1997 special edition ending. So you're saying whoever made that video made a mistake with the ending shown at 3:17?

Exactly.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Well, according to that video the ending shown at 3:17 is the 1997 special edition ending. So you're saying whoever made that video made a mistake with the ending shown at 3:17? I've never seen the 1997 special editions.

Yeah, the Jedi ending was altered from the new 1997 Special Edition ending to add in the celebration on Naboo with the Gungans from TPM and the Hayden Christensen ghost. I think they also added in the Jedi Temple to the background of the Coruscant celebration too. Think that's all the changes.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

I know, I was just responding to Jedi getting the flack for the ending, when it's the story direction of the new films that have created this "issue". That's why I said the future films should help with all this, and I realise it's a new starting off point now as much as a continuation. Looking forward to seeing where they go with it.

Like I said, I think the original ending still works absolutely fine with TFA following on as it's very much a smaller celebration with our heroes and the citizens of the planet they just liberated, but TFA's soft reboot definitely pisses all over the wider "weesa free!" fiesta.

[Arawn]

The term you're looking for is "sequel".

[Geoff D]

Nah, "soft reboot" does me fine.

[rexcrk]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Nah, "soft reboot" does me fine.

But it... is a sequel. You know, because it's Episode 7? 7 comes after 6...

[Arawn]

I guess that makes Han Solo "soft alive" by the end of the film.

[Geoff D]

Sure, whatever.

[fontcow]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Like I said, I think the original ending still works absolutely fine with TFA following on as it's very much a smaller celebration with our heroes and the citizens of the planet they just liberated, but TFA's soft reboot definitely pisses all over the wider "weesa free!" fiesta.

Originally Posted by Arawn

The term you're looking for is "sequel".

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Nah, "soft reboot" does me fine.

Originally Posted by rexcrk

But it... is a sequel. You know, because it's Episode 7? 7 comes after 6...

It's a requel!

[Caseyscott]

It's not a remake, it just rhymes, right? It's like poetry.

[Mighty Max]

The Farce Awakens only works(barely, at that) if you watch in release order...

[Roonan]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

It's not a remake, it just rhymes, right? It's like poetry.

It's not a rhyme if it's the same word.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

To be fair though, it's TFA that is entirely to blame for this, not the new Jedi ending. As much as the special edition changes get slated for retconning the OT to fit the prequels, TFA basically retcons the entire happy ending so it can continue the story in a dramatic fashion, emulating ANH. So now, in retrospect, the new Jedi ending doesn't seem to work so well (even though I always dug it).

This might sound nit-picky but TFA does not retcon the OT. Nothing in TFA tells us the events at the Jedi didn't happen. TFA simply puts those events in a different perspective. (And for me, it doesn't even do that. I never thought all Imperial forces everywhere simply took their toys and went home when Palpatine died).

The rise of Russian autocrats hasn't retconned the fall of the Berlin wall. It just puts all that dancing in a different light. And again, for some of us it doesn't even do that.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Like I said, I think the original ending still works absolutely fine with TFA following on as it's very much a smaller celebration with our heroes and the citizens of the planet they just liberated, but TFA's soft reboot definitely pisses all over the wider "weesa free!" fiesta.

Definitely pisses all over? That seems a little strong. Or, you know, a lot strong. It continues the story in a way that puts the celebrations in a different light. That's it.