Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by octagon

Actually, 'so what' is kind of my point there. If you're not saying there's something iffy or questionable about wanting to write your own movies instead of signing onto every jot and tittle of a Creator's vision then what are you saying?

Um, actually I am saying that. I am saying as I said it before. It is one thing to complain and criticize, it is another thing to tell the director/artist what he should have done.

Doesn't mean I think the person shouldn't have the right to say it, which is why I called it out for what it was. Didn't I just say this? At this point I think you are making no attempts to comprehend...but I have hope.

[qupute]What's your point?[/quote]

To define what was going on. To perhaps make someone see what they were doing. What is yours?

So what?

What is your point? When I explain something the same way twice, and you continue to say "so what" that it chiding in its textbook definition.

Whoa, talk about a straw man. I've seen a lot of complaining and second-guessing about the prequels over the years but I can't recall too many people clamoring for Lucas (or anybody else) to go back in and 'fix' them.

Wait a second, didn't you just say this:

Over the years a lot of people have suggested a lot of ways the prequels could have been done differently.

hmmmmm I guess those were "suggestions". Of course again, wouldn't it be nice to respect the artist and simply take it for what it is, and try to understand the artist intent?

The closest might be people talking about restoring the puppet Yoda or updating the CGI Yoda but I don't see anybody saying scenes should be reshot or entirely new scenes should be added.

I think people that enjoy the prequels take it for what it is. The OT needed updating (based on Lucas himself) because they were compromised visions compared to budget he had so long ago. This is not new information. Yoda CGI is a perfect example.

No offense but I find that very hard to believe. Are you seriously saying you've never said a film would have been better if a certain scene had been cut or if a certain character had been written differently or played by a different actor?

Here you go again with the straw man. In general this is something I don't do. And I would like to think I have grown in my thinking. I understand that with film and extras and all that, I find it more important to understand what the artist wanted.

But yes getting back to point. What I meant is what I said. No I don't say that a director should re-film or re-write a scene. I stick to criticism vs re-imagining. Get the difference? I don't know how I can make it anymore clear. What this has to do with never, I will never ever understand. If I spew this re-filming like criticism, I expect to get it back.

Your examples don't match with me. Recently I stated on Phantasm III that I didn't understand the extra characters getting so much time. It kinda lost me. I do believe that the original characters getting more time would have made a better film based on original chemistry. However, I still tried to enjoy it for what it was, and it certainly wasn't me saying that the film should be recut, and redone. Matter of fact, I enjoyed it for the cheese that it was, and after finishing it I thought how much it at least entertained me for the next round. It is part of a series, so the vision isn't finished yet (no spoilers please). See the difference in attitude?

I say shit like that all the time. And if there's anything to all that Law of Averages stuff I'm even right sometimes.

Right to who...to you? Because while there are cases of fans making edits and then a director changing it because of the suggestion, it doesn't make that the rule. You could be "right" in your head, but until you throw it up to box office scores, it is a theory.

Also the law quotes as "anything that can go wrong, will go wrong". This does not equate to that you are proved to be right sometimes.

Maybe. Or maybe the legion of online detractors mercilessly mocking the living shit out of The Happening and Lady in the Water played some small part in M Night regaining his footing with The Visit and Split.

I mean, that's clearly ridiculous but I suppose you never know.

.....

So say we all, he said mixing his fictional references.

I think you are mixing quite a few things up at this moment. Including the original point.

In summation. One should appreciate the artist and make attempts to understand their work instead of demanding changes. If changes happens, than it is the artist (s) that should be doing it.

The rest is just fandom psychobabble.


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Originally Posted by Mefan101

Well, I understand, but it doesn't mean I agree. For me, at first glance, I thought it was cool seeing something like that, after watching the Prequels, and getting to know the story of Anakin Skywalker (especially after seeing Revenge Of The Sith). I thought I ended up not liking it, but it was because of the toxic, negative feedback that was surrounding me, specifically online. My true feelings about that change is that it never bothered me the slightest. I was first introduced to ROTJ with the original version (the CBS/FOX VHS), and I loved it. It's still nice to see the original ending sometimes, but that version is in the past, canon-wise.

Couldn't agree more. They are part of a series, and the first iterations are beta. However, I can understand having them untouched (wait which would those be...since even before the special editions there were still multiple versions!!) for history sake.

Now, that said, Star Wars in original form (with 70mm sound thank you very much) is a whole other beast. That movie is a stand alone film and can work best without any of the others and no A New Hope tag as I have stated many times before.

Listening to Lucas commentary gives great inside looks to what he wanted, and only with an open mind do you see that what he did truly was well done.

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Originally Posted by Vlad Draculi

I don't recall every telling anyone they couldn't.

Never said you did. Though the "chiding" comment wasn't exactly constructive.

But dialing it down (at least on my part), I prefer to stick to discussion of the films.

[Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

The only change I like and think is positive is the new music at the end of ROTJ (Yub Nub is TERRIBLE).

I had never seen ROTJ until the 97 SE so had only ever known the new music, was quite the surprise when I finally saw the original.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

Actually, that is very untrue. Lucas had tons of people questioning lots of stuff he did, like making Anakin 9 in TPM. That was a big no-no for a bunch of people, and they wanted him to be Luke's age.

Shh. The Prequel Hater FAQ/Wiki says "Lucas was surrounded by yes men".






Amazing how many message boards online use that exact terminology.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Shh. The Prequel Hater FAQ/Wiki says "Lucas was surrounded by yes men".






Amazing how many message boards online use that exact terminology.

Hmm... seems like a dig at the things I was saying. I have my own thoughts, thank you very much. I'm certainly not repeating "talking points" from some other site or wiki, and this is the only message board/forum I frequent... although lately I'm rethinking even that, more and more.

And my posts are FARRRRR from "prequel hating". I was very even handed, and expressed how much I currently enjoy the prequels. But I do think and will continue to think -- of my own volition -- that Lucas was surrounded by Yes Men.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Shh. The Prequel Hater FAQ/Wiki says "Lucas was surrounded by yes men".

Amazing how many message boards online use that exact terminology.

There's only so many ways to express a concept, and the phrase "yes men" is the most clear and concise way for most people to do so in this instance. Not everyone has the vocabulary required to use the word "sycophant" (which would be my word of choice) appropriately.

Also, don't act like the pro-PT/SE propaganda that you frequently post is a precious and unique snowflake either. I've seen that same delusional playbook elsewhere as well.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by svenge

Not everyone has the vocabulary required to use the word "sycophant" (which would be my word of choice) appropriately.

Funny how even someone who agrees with me can be insulting. People suck.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

Funny how even someone who agrees with me can be insulting. People suck.

I wasn't trying to implicate you specifically with my statement about vocabulary, I was talking about the general public as a whole. I'm the one who's an outlier in this situation, not you.

I do apologize for the unintentional damage there.

[Early Memphis]

Some of you really need to get a life. I mean, 4K character posts about stuff you have no control over and can't change? Good luck with that.

[rickah88]

Shots fired!
I'm heading for cover.

[Ben Reilly]

I'm of the camp that loved the prequels and even I think Lucas surrounded himself with yes-men!
Especially Rick McCallum!

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

Actually, that is very untrue. Lucas had tons of people questioning lots of stuff he did, like making Anakin 9 in TPM. That was a big no-no for a bunch of people, and they wanted him to be Luke's age.

Maybe the problem then is he didn't listen to them, when he did during the original trilogy. I'm not saying that's the case for certain, but lots of stuff was removed from the OT that could've made them much worse films, those types of decisions weren't made as effectively with the prequels.

[Ben Reilly]

The prequels should have been about 5 movies. not 3. too much got crammed or removed.
Hell, the novel Labyrinth of Evil was at one point part of the Revenge of the Sith screenplay!

[stvn1974]

I have always wondered what the people who had to create things like Jedi Rocks thought about them.

Man kisses his wife goodbye in the morning and says "see you later, honey, I am off to ruin Return Of The Jedi today. See you at dinner."

[Arch Stanton]

There were a few snidey comments about things Lucas did and wanted in some of the prequel commentaries. I think Burtt and some of the ILM guys said what they thought; ultimately it just didn't matter. Lucas called the shots and had complete power.

[Ben Reilly]

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

There were a few snidey comments about things Lucas did and wanted in some of the prequel commentaries. I think Burtt and some of the ILM guys said what they thought; ultimately it just didn't matter. Lucas called the shots and had complete power.

And they are his movies so he should.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by Ben Reilly

And they are his movies so he should.

Absolutely, but that does not a good film make.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

Absolutely, but that does not a good film make.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

Absolutely, but that does not a good film make.

Boy for not good films they sure is popular.

If these are bad films, than I am all in, because I do not want to know what "good" Star Wars is in the eyes of OT fanboys that will accept nothing but what they want to see (previous recent discussion excluded).

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Boy for not good films they sure is popular.

If these are bad films, than I am all in, because I do not want to know what "good" Star Wars is in the eyes of OT fanboys that will accept nothing but what they want to see (previous recent discussion excluded).

Sorry but I prefer to have the choice. If that puts me in a minority for you so be it.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Boy for not good films they sure is popular.

If these are bad films, than I am all in, because I do not want to know what "good" Star Wars is in the eyes of OT fanboys that will accept nothing but what they want to see (previous recent discussion excluded).

They sure is...

Of course popularity and quality are not necessarily tied to one another.

I don't think pointing out how collaborative efforts in a medium that requires large numbers of contributors can be beneficial is in any way, blind fandom.

That has to be one of the laziest defenses of a film, particularly when applied to actual constructive criticism.