Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Why would anyone give Jake Lloyd hate? I don't understand that. Are these people fans or haters of the PT? If they are fans, do they think he ruined The Phantom Menace and if he acted better then the movie would be a masterpiece or something?

If they are haters, why don't they just criticize the movie itself and leave child actors out of it?

Ask Kevin Smith. CLERKS 2: "My shitty acting is ruining saga."

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Ask Kevin Smith. CLERKS 2: "My shitty acting is ruining saga."

Kevin Smith actually likes the PT.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by brettxwt

Fair enough, but to dismiss it as modernized color correction is simply untrue. They're a lot more faithful to the originals than the official blu-ray set. They're also based on low-fade prints, so there's that.

No actually it is a lot closer to the Special Editions which is an entirely different vision.

What the Despecialized is plain and simple...is stolen.

It is taking Lucas work and deciding that altering it is somehow accurate. Lucas never meant for all those sources to be slammed together, and the maker should be sued.

The bluray scan was meant to be seen one way.

A capture of the 35mm is more acurate.

Despecialized shouldn't be promoted because it is straight up theft. No one ever bought any version of it because no home version had that CG altercation. It just isn't right.

[crissrudd4554]

To be fair Harmy strongly endorses the official BDs. Not saying it makes what he did/does any less wrong but he's definitely not doing this to so people have an excuse not to buy the official BDs.

[brettxwt]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

No actually it is a lot closer to the Special Editions which is an entirely different vision.

The color timing might be closer to the Special Editions than the original prints, but was color corrected to eliminate many of the problems present on the blu-rays. It's closer to how it looked theatrically than the blu-ray, at least when it comes to the color timing.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

What the Despecialized is plain and simple...is stolen.

Call it what you want. I'm not getting into the ethics of this. If Lucas wants to alter his movies, fine, but he's offering no alternative to see the originals the way people remember them and prefer them without all of the "enhancements".

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

It is taking Lucas work and deciding that altering it is somehow accurate. Lucas never meant for all those sources to be slammed together, and the maker should be sued.

It is also Lucas taking other people's work and erasing it from history. Simple things like Jason Wingreen no longer getting credited for his voice work in Empire Strikes Back, or the mattes, model and miniature work thousands of hours of labor were spent on. Sure the Despecialized Editions aren't as high quality as an official release would be, but they look pretty damn good for what they are and I admire how much time and effort were spent on them.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by balthazar_bee

Me, I paid to see that damned movie 19 times theatrically.

[Show spoiler]

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by brettxwt

Simple things like Jason Wingreen no longer getting credited for his voice work in Empire Strikes Back, or the mattes, model and miniature work thousands of hours of labor were spent on.

If I'm not mistaken, those people remain on the credits for the films. In which case, you're wrong.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by brettxwt

Out of the prequels, Phantom Menace is the only I like. I like it a lot, actually. Attack of the Clones is miserable to sit through and easily the worst film in the series by a mile. Sith was average but not something I'd ever sit through again.

I strongly believe that it can be possible to feel differently about a film from one viewing to the next. A recent watch of The Phantom Menace had me feeling that the pacing had been ruined by the overlong podrace as the political subplot had been moved to the final third of the movie, a point in the film at which the action should have been the focus. I watched it again just a week ago and thoroughly enjoyed it and had no issues with the pacing.

Attack Of The Clones is a film I've always loved (yes, I'm that one fan!) but I saw it recently and felt that there was just far too much sitting around and talking (ironically, my son has never cared for the film for that very reason but on this occasion he had a great time with it) to the extent that by the time the film reached the sequence in the arena I was ready to switch it off.

Revenge Of The Sith, though, is a film which has never failed to entertain and move me. I just feel it's absolute perfection.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by brettxwt

The color timing might be closer to the Special Editions than the original prints, but was color corrected to eliminate many of the problems present on the blu-rays. It's closer to how it looked theatrically than the blu-ray, at least when it comes to the color timing.

I am well aware of what the project is and the whole thing never made sense.

Find the original print, scan it or capture it. Problem solved. Thankfully that has been done.

Call it what you want. I'm not getting into the ethics of this. If Lucas wants to alter his movies, fine, but he's offering no alternative to see the originals the way people remember them and prefer them without all of the "enhancements".

Some people prefer them...get that straight. Also Lucas had his rights to do whatever he wants with them. Harmy had no right to alter his work and should have been sued for it.

It is also Lucas taking other people's work and erasing it from history.

As he has every right to do. His ownership, his rights. No company has any obligation to preserve a past workers accomplishments.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Some people prefer them...get that straight.

The "original trilogy" mob believe they speak for every fan. I think this is far from the truth but their obsession with this issue blinds them.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

The "original trilogy" mob believe they speak for every fan. I think this is far from the truth but their obsession with this issue blinds them.

I don't think that's even remotely true. At worst there are a few outspoken individuals with radical viewpoints on the issue, but if this thread is any evidence there is a tremendous amount of civil discussion from the "original trilogy mob."

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

Attack Of The Clones is a film I've always loved (yes, I'm that one fan!) but I saw it recently and felt that there was just far too much sitting around and talking (ironically, my son has never cared for the film for that very reason but on this occasion he had a great time with it) to the extent that by the time the film reached the sequence in the arena I was ready to switch it off.

You're not alone in the wilderness... I'm that one OTHER fan of AOTC. Easily my favorite of the prequels, although I certainly understand everyone's complaints about it. As for the pacing, and wanting to "switch it off" at the gladiator arena.... I've felt for years that the Star Wars movies -- all of them -- are almost too "dense". I've discovered great enjoyment by placing an old-timey intermission half-way through. I walk around, get my head straight, grab a Jack 'n' Coke, and dive back in feeling refreshed.

My intermissions:
MENACE: post pod race, just after Qui-Gon and Watto settle their bet; now the whole "second half" is about getting the hell off Tatooine
CLONES: right at Anakin/Padme arrival at Lars homestead; second half is much better when you shake off the talky baggage of the first half
SITH: right after Obi-Wan kills Grievous (spoiler!); whole second half is about the turning of the tide
HOPE: right after Luke's lightsaber training on Falcon, after "you've taken your first step into a larger world"; second half is Death Star Adventure!
EMPIRE: right after Falcon escapes from space slug; second half is all slip-sliding into Cloud City
JEDI: right at Wicket's arrival, Leia recovers from unconsciousness after speeder bike spill; second half is all Ewoks
AWAKENS: after Rey runs away from Maz's compound, into the woods -- right before Starkiller Base shows off its power; second half is all about Starkiller Base, Rey getting captured, and dealing with that plotline

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Riddler95

What exactly are baby boom channels?

Before Dolby came along, there were five screen channels for 70mm films: Left, Left-Center, Center, Right-Center and Right (plus mono surround). All of the stage channels were full-range channels.

However, back in the days of 70mm 6-track, there was also 4-track mag for 35mm. Same as 70mm, but without Left-Center and Right-Center.

The studios got lazy and cut budgets, so instead of doing a full 6-track mix, they started doing 4-track mixes (or taking the 35mm mag 4-track) and using that for the 70mm, spreading Left and Center to Left-Center and spreading Center and Right to Right-Center. This killed a lot of the stereo imaging. One of the rationales they gave for doing this is that in the early days of 6-track, they would pan the dialog across the screen channels if a character was moving across the screen. But they stopped doing that and primarily sent dialog to the center channel as they do today, so they felt that completely discrete channels for 2 and 4 weren't necessary.

When Dolby came along and was preparing for the 70mm Star Wars in 1977, they wanted to make better use of channels 2 and 4 - the left-center and right-center channels. They decided to make those low-frequency effects channels only. Since they weren't switching out the speaker systems for speakers specifically designed for low frequencies, they were called "baby-boom" channels.

When people talk about wanting the original 70mm mixes on Blu, they usually have no idea what they're talking about because no one would have such a speaker configuration at home: (Left - Left/Center effects - Center - Center/Right effects - Right - mono surround) and the receivers don't support such a configuration anyway. What would be done is that Left/Center and Center/Right would become the ".1" channel and then you'd have Left, Center, Right and mono surround - essentially a 4.1 mix as "THX" noted in a post above. My contention is that even those who argue for the "original untouched" editions would freak out if Star Wars was released in only 4.1, so they're a bit hypocritical.

An interesting side note is that when Apocalypse Now was released in 70mm a few years later, Coppola wanted stereo surround so the helicopter flyovers would be effective. But there were only six channels available on 70mm mag soundtracks. So what Dolby did for "split surround" is that the high frequencies for surround were recorded on channel 2 for left surround and channel 4 for right surround. Those were split off in the processor and sent to the surrounds. Channel 6, the former mono surround channel was used for surround low frequencies only and sent to both surrounds (okay since low frequencies have long wavelengths and lack perceivable directionality). Low frequencies on channels 2 and 4 were sent to the effects stage channels as they were with "baby boom". So Dolby was able to get 7 channels out of 6 tracks. Quite a trick.

Lucas could have used split surround for the 70mm releases of "TESB" and "ROTJ" and for the special edition 70mm re-releases of all three films, but he didn't. I remember being very surprised by this because he was very involved with Dolby from the beginning. And certainly all the flyovers in the Star Wars films as well as the environmental noise could have made good use of stereo surround.

[Gold Ranger]

Count me amongst the few that also loves Attack of the Clones!

[Scarface32]

Out of the prequels, the only one I really liked was Revenge of the Sith. I didn't really care for the other two.

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

The "original trilogy" mob believe they speak for every fan. I think this is far from the truth but their obsession with this issue blinds them.

I'm an original trilogy fan, I'm not speaking for the whole fandom. I've said many times on various sites in my arguments over wanting the original cuts, which I do, that Lucas was entitled to do his changes and doesn't owe anyone anything.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Why would anyone give Jake Lloyd hate? I don't understand that. Are these people fans or haters of the PT? If they are fans, do they think he ruined The Phantom Menace and if he acted better then the movie would be a masterpiece or something?

If they are haters, why don't they just criticize the movie itself and leave child actors out of it?

All the hate for this kid is because all these insecure macho boys were embarrassed to go see a movie in which a 10-year-old had the key role. These were people who just wanted to see Darth Vader do evil stuff. They couldn't relate this sweet kid character (although he did lie a bit) to the character who became Vader.

Having said that, the cynical view is that Lucas incorporated this young character not in service of the story, but in service of getting more young kids to see the movie and buy the merchandise. And that the pod race was also not in service of the story, but an excuse to sell videogames. Wouldn't the OT have been far better if those very young years of Anakin were concisely told as a 10-15 minute flashback instead of an entire film? We really only needed to know a few things: that Anakin was born with no father, that he was a slave, that he was very smart and displayed "force" skills and that he built C3PO. And then some plot point to get him out of there. That all could have been part of what became the second film.

Regardless, there shouldn't have been hate for Jake Lloyd himself - that's just bullying. His performance was credible except for a few bad line readings here and there, but he certainly was no worse than the adult actors. The problem was the screenplay.

[Gold Ranger]

Not for nothing, but as cool as the Pod Race is, it is crap!
Anakin says he is the only Human than can do it. I could understand if he was the only Bi-Pedal or Single-Jointed creature that was in the race.
Just because he has "quick reflexes" doesn't mean diddly. If he could "see things before they happen" he would have won many more races than just one!

[stvn1974]

The pod race and the Gui Gon/Obi Wan/Maul fight are the only two things I like out of the Prequels.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

I don't think that's even remotely true. At worst there are a few outspoken individuals with radical viewpoints on the issue, but if this thread is any evidence there is a tremendous amount of civil discussion from the "original trilogy mob."

There speaks someone who clearly hasn't dipped their toe into the mire of the originaltrilogy.com site.