Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Caleb C.

IMO, the only Star Wars film that should be considered a "crime against humanity" is The Force Awakens. A hollow, nostalgia-driven soft reboot, which does nothing to expand the Star Wars saga. It makes the original trilogy completely pointless to boot, by destroying everything that our heroes fought to restore. All in a shameless attempt to recreate the Rebels vs. Empire scenario yet again.

Saying that TFA invalidated the OT is just silly. No happy ending is permanent. In LotR Sauron was defeated, but the Elves had to leave Middle-earth, and the Dwarves and Hobbits just kind of faded away...and apparently Gondor didn't do too well after Aragorn died. In Narnia, the Pevensies defeated the Witch and reigned for fifteen happy years, only to wander back into England, and come back to find that a thousand years had gone by, all their friends were dead, and a foreign power had conquered their kingdom and hunted their people almost to extinction. Why should the Rebels fair any better? Especially when the end of RotJ was actually much less conclusive than those of RotK or LW&W. It doesn't really make sense that a huge empire of evil could completely collapse so quickly. There must be a Saruman equivalent out there, biding his time (I suspect Snoke is something like that).

Also, the seeds of the ST are there in the OT if you know where to look. It makes sense that Luke might become a dogmatist over time, given that both his teachers have been known to get too hung up on Jedi rules and regulations. It also makes sense that given Han and Leia's established flaws - he's selfish and irresponsible, she's stubborn and myopic - that they might make bad or at least absent parents, especially for a kid like Ben who needed to be handled very delicately. The ST makes it clear that those three aren't perfect people - but anyone who concluded that from the OT wasn't paying attention anyway.

So no, I do not think that the ST invalidates the OT - I think that like the Greek epic poems and tragedies, SW is a cycle and the ST is really the only logical way the story could have gone.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

Real?

Clone Wars feature, Ewok movies, Christmas Special...not "real". Some kind of madness.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Caleb C.

I'm surprised that more original trilogy fans aren't outraged by The Force Awakens.

Sorry.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Clone Wars feature, Ewok movies, Christmas Special...not "real". Some kind of madness.

Got ya.

[frogjunk65]

I can’t believe people are still whining. I grew up seeing the OT in theaters. All of the SW films have something unique to offer. I just don’t understand some of the utter hatred for some of the films. Ep. II AOTC is my least favorite. But I won’t change the channel if it’s on tv.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

Did you not find any enjoyment in the big final battle at the very least? I actually thought the characters were quite interesting, not being the typical “good” archetypes, and being more in the middle. Anyway, I really loved Rogue One, it was TFA that didn’t float my boat very much.

A small amount, I guess. I just didn’t like the movie so whatever enjoyment I got from that final battle didn’t do much for me. I thought Darth Vader seemed kind of lame in the movie. When he was first introduced I got chills in the theater, but then when he started talking I thought he seemed awkward. And something about how he looked didn’t seem right to me. Something in the neck area. I really liked The Force Awakens, on the other hand, so I guess it’s all just a matter of taste.

[Bobbyjoe766]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

A small amount, I guess. I just didn’t like the movie so whatever enjoyment I got from that final battle didn’t do much for me. I thought Darth Vader seemed kind of lame in the movie. When he was first introduced I got chills in the theater, but then when he started talking I thought he seemed awkward. And something about how he looked didn’t seem right to me. Something in the neck area. I really liked The Force Awakens, on the other hand, so I guess it’s all just a matter of taste.

The red eye lenses are what I found distracting. I think they were amber in colour for the original STAR WARS?

Vader also sounded old in some dialogue scenes - perfectly understandable, considering the original voice actor is getting on in age.

[Caleb C.]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

So no, I do not think that the ST invalidates the OT - I think that like the Greek epic poems and tragedies, SW is a cycle and the ST is really the only logical way the story could have gone.

I feel the complete opposite. For me, the story of TFA isn't very logical at all. First, there's no excuse for Leia not being a Jedi. She is logically the first person that Luke would have trained. Also, Luke's New Jedi Order being destroyed is a total cop-out. It only happens so that the story can mimic A New Hope (where the Jedi are "near extinct" because an apprentice turned evil and destroyed everything).

I understand that the "happy ending" of ROTJ can't last forever. However, there could have been a new threat, which wasn't a rehashed Empire. I imagine that after ROTJ, there were likely still remants of the Empire out there in the galaxy. However, the New Republic would logically try to hunt these remnants down, and eliminate them. After 30 years, I can't imagine there being many Imperials left (certainly not enough to build another super-weapon). Maybe bring in a new threat, such as the Mandalorians, for the New Republic and Jedi Order to face.

Ultimately, everything I said means nothing, because TFA is what we got, and that's never going to change. I'm just very disappointed, because I feel like it could have been so much more.

[Zillamon51]

The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Rogue One
Return of the Jedi
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace
The Clone Wars

I enjoy them all. I'm not a "Prequel hater" by any means, but I acknowledge that they have their problems. I think Sith is the cutoff point for what I would call legit good movies, and not things I like in spite of themselves. I know the trend has shifted to hating on Clones the most, but the abundance of action saves that one for me. But at no point does the saga really "jump the shark," like a Jason Goes to Hell, for me.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Zillamon51

The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Rogue One
Return of the Jedi
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace
The Clone Wars

Is that just the Clone Wars feature at the bottom or the entire series?

I could see putting the feature down there but I really grew to like the series.

[JimSmith]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Yes, and by updating it that means removing it.

Which will never happen. So Lucasfilm might as well replace the crappy 1997 and early 2000's CGI with new 2017/2018 CGI.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Caleb C.

IMO, the only Star Wars film that should be considered a "crime against humanity" is The Force Awakens. A hollow, nostalgia-driven soft reboot, which does nothing to expand the Star Wars saga. It makes the original trilogy completely pointless to boot, by destroying everything that our heroes fought to restore. All in a shameless attempt to recreate the Rebels vs. Empire scenario yet again.

I'm surprised that more original trilogy fans aren't outraged by The Force Awakens. I guess they just wanted more of the same, and didn't care about getting a proper sequel (see Blade Runner 2049).

Speaking my language...

[JimSmith]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I used to think that Rogue One was pretty bad, then I saw the prequels. I love Rogue One now.

I fixed your post for you. You're welcome.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Caleb C.

I feel the complete opposite. For me, the story of TFA isn't very logical at all. First, there's no excuse for Leia not being a Jedi. She is logically the first person that Luke would have trained. Also, Luke's New Jedi Order being destroyed is a total cop-out. It only happens so that the story can mimic A New Hope (where the Jedi are "near extinct" because an apprentice turned evil and destroyed everything).

I understand that the "happy ending" of ROTJ can't last forever. However, there could have been a new threat, which wasn't a rehashed Empire. I imagine that after ROTJ, there were likely still remants of the Empire out there in the galaxy. However, the New Republic would logically try to hunt these remnants down, and eliminate them. After 30 years, I can't imagine there being many Imperials left (certainly not enough to build another super-weapon). Maybe bring in a new threat, such as the Mandalorians, for the New Republic and Jedi Order to face.

Ultimately, everything I said means nothing, because TFA is what we got, and that's never going to change. I'm just very disappointed, because I feel like it could have been so much more.

All of this...all of it.

[drush9999]

For me it's:

Star Wars
The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
The Phantom Menace
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones

Star Wars and Empire flip flop occasionally, but I find Star Wars more re-watchable these days.

[JimSmith]

Originally Posted by Caleb C.

I feel the complete opposite. For me, the story of TFA isn't very logical at all. First, there's no excuse for Leia not being a Jedi. She is logically the first person that Luke would have trained. Also, Luke's New Jedi Order being destroyed is a total cop-out. It only happens so that the story can mimic A New Hope (where the Jedi are "near extinct" because an apprentice turned evil and destroyed everything).

I understand that the "happy ending" of ROTJ can't last forever. However, there could have been a new threat, which wasn't a rehashed Empire. I imagine that after ROTJ, there were likely still remants of the Empire out there in the galaxy. However, the New Republic would logically try to hunt these remnants down, and eliminate them. After 30 years, I can't imagine there being many Imperials left (certainly not enough to build another super-weapon). Maybe bring in a new threat, such as the Mandalorians, for the New Republic and Jedi Order to face.

Ultimately, everything I said means nothing, because TFA is what we got, and that's never going to change. I'm just very disappointed, because I feel like it could have been so much more.

I do believe that one of the original ideas for episode 7 back in the 80's was going to be Luke searching for his long lost sister and it wasn't Leia. I'm extremely disappointed in both episodes 6 and 7 since revisiting this great saga. Both movies are for the most part knock-offs of A New Hope. Originally for Return of the Jedi Luke and Leia were not going to be siblings, there also wasn't going to be a death star part deux or any ewoks either. Like I said it is just so utterly disappointing that there are 2 extremely lazy and flat installments in this otherwise wonderful franchise.

[Amano]

For me:

Empire strikes back
Star Wars
The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith

I agree with the better rewatchability of Star Wars, but that might be due to the simple fact that it is the first part of the trilogy without any "dependencies" on a former one. The better movie (writing, acting, pacing) is Empire for me.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Caleb C.

I feel the complete opposite. For me, the story of TFA isn't very logical at all. First, there's no excuse for Leia not being a Jedi.

That was never a foregone conclusion no matter how convenient it might have appeared. You need to factor in Leia's motivation., whether she wants to go through that or if her leadership qualities are better served and better used elsewhere. Being Generals and Jedi at the same time didn't work out too well in the past.

Also, Luke's New Jedi Order being destroyed is a total cop-out.

Because, naturally, Luke would be immediately successful in creating a new Jedi order on his own.

However, there could have been a new threat, which wasn't a rehashed Empire.

If the losing side after ROTJ is the imperials but there was not total victory, why wouldn't the backlash in the form of the FO be Empire-like?

However, the New Republic would logically try to hunt these remnants down, and eliminate them.

You mean that the Alliance, which started during the PT era on the pretext of anti-militarism, would have become the new Empire and enacted reprisals rather than restore their system of government as peaceably as possible and appease anyone else that was still opposed.

After 30 years, I can't imagine there being many Imperials left (certainly not enough to build another super-weapon).

Clearly, neither can the New Republic.

Maybe bring in a new threat, such as the Mandalorians, for the New Republic and Jedi Order to face.

So this is just about putting new skins on bad guys but the conflict remaining the same, and with the good guys reset to Episode I.

Ultimately, everything I said means nothing,

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Saying that TFA invalidated the OT is just silly. No happy ending is permanent.

[Show spoiler] In LotR Sauron was defeated, but the Elves had to leave Middle-earth, and the Dwarves and Hobbits just kind of faded away...and apparently Gondor didn't do too well after Aragorn died.

In Narnia, the Pevensies defeated the Witch and reigned for fifteen happy years, only to wander back into England, and come back to find that a thousand years had gone by, all their friends were dead, and a foreign power had conquered their kingdom and hunted their people almost to extinction.

[Show spoiler]Why should the Rebels fair any better? Especially when the end of RotJ was actually much less conclusive than those of RotK or LW&W. It doesn't really make sense that a huge empire of evil could completely collapse so quickly. There must be a Saruman equivalent out there, biding his time (I suspect Snoke is something like that).

Also, the seeds of the ST are there in the OT if you know where to look. It makes sense that Luke might become a dogmatist over time, given that both his teachers have been known to get too hung up on Jedi rules and regulations. It also makes sense that given Han and Leia's established flaws - he's selfish and irresponsible, she's stubborn and myopic - that they might make bad or at least absent parents, especially for a kid like Ben who needed to be handled very delicately. The ST makes it clear that those three aren't perfect people - but anyone who concluded that from the OT wasn't paying attention anyway.

So no, I do not think that the ST invalidates the OT - I think that like the Greek epic poems and tragedies, SW is a cycle and the ST is really the only logical way the story could have gone.

What?
What books did you read?
Time didn't move on Earth. They reigned for 15 years in the first book and came back and were children again.
Then they all went on seperate adventures for a few books, some didn't even involve them.
When they were all done, all save Susan were killed in a train crash. She wasn't there because she stopped believing in Narnia.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by JimSmith

I do believe that one of the original ideas for episode 7 back in the 80's was going to be Luke searching for his long lost sister and it wasn't Leia. I'm extremely disappointed in both episodes 6 and 7 since revisiting this great saga. Both movies are for the most part knock-offs of A New Hope. Originally for Return of the Jedi Luke and Leia were not going to be siblings, there also wasn't going to be a death star part deux or any ewoks either. Like I said it is just so utterly disappointing that there are 2 extremely lazy and flat installments in this otherwise wonderful franchise.

Actually, Lucas wanted like a hundred Death Stars surrounding Coruscant
Not one hanging over a moon...

As cool as it would have been, I'm also glad we didn't get the original Jedi plot...
Obi-Wan and Yoda coming back to life would not have been good.