Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[bobbyh64]

I kinda have a soft spot for Mrs. Chimpanzee-Eye Man-Voice Emperor.

[drush9999]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I kinda have a soft spot for Mrs. Chimpanzee-Eye Man-Voice Emperor.

I hate the changed dialogue in that scene as well.

[avs commenter]

I forgot about how they also ruined the emperor in the PT. He looked like he was wearing a cheap plastic mask in ROTS

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

I forgot about how they also ruined the emperor in the PT. He looked like he was wearing a cheap plastic mask in ROTS

Also in the fixed scene from Empire on the 2004/2011 versions. The old one looked kind of weird but was kind of harder to see, the "fixed" one doesn't look the same as he did in Jedi (probably in part because he was lit better in Jedi) and looks like someone wearing a rubber mask.

[Hardback247]

How's this? It contains the original dialogue, and the Emperor as he looks in ROTJ. It comes from Adywan's Empire Strikes Back Revisited:

Vader and The Emperor - The Empire Strikes Back: Revisited Edition [HD] - YouTube

[crissrudd4554]

My problem with the Emperor change is not only the unneeded additional dialogue but that Ian McDiarmid’s delivery is really bad. He sounds, and looks, like he is literally reading off cue cards. Not one of his better Emperor performances. And keep in mind, I’m only being critical of his performance there, this isn’t referring to him in ROTJ or ROTS where of course he is excellent! Also there’s more of a mystery with the character when you view the original interpretation which IMO also carries over to ROTJ. Note how we don’t get a Reaalll good look at the Emperor’s face until Luke is brought to him?? That setup is disrupted with the ESB change and technically ROTS.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

My problem with the Emperor change is not only the unneeded additional dialogue but that Ian McDiarmid’s delivery is really bad. He sounds, and looks, like he is literally reading off cue cards. Not one of his better Emperor performances. And keep in mind, I’m only being critical of his performance there, this isn’t referring to him in ROTJ or ROTS where of course he is excellent! Also there’s more of a mystery with the character when you view the original interpretation which IMO also carries over to ROTJ. Note how we don’t get a Reaalll good look at the Emperor’s face until Luke is brought to him?? That setup is disrupted with the ESB change and technically ROTS.

Agreed. I like the idea of watching the saga in release order. The unaltered OT followed by the prequels.

[avs commenter]

Apparently in the ROTS novel, it's explained that the Emperor always had that rubber looking face and the force lightning only burned off his disguise mask.

[happydood]

I don't think there has ever been or will ever be a successful retrofitting of a prequel story into a already-established movie series. Release order is the only way to watch them for me and I have to take them on their own merits. There are many things I like about the Prequels and The Hobbit- and many things I don't- but I can never do a series watch with those first- they wouldn't exist without the previously released films.

[Stanis]

Originally Posted by JEDGAR1000

Special editions did a lot of bad, but I do think people overlook the good they added.

If this is your example of what you perceive to be a "good Special Edition change," then you can keep it. No offense.

It seems like I only read this thread to be reminded why I don't own these on BluRay. The changes had a snowball effect, and once they finally came to BR there were changes to the changes to the changes, and it still makes me grumpy (less so since I have the OT on dvd and digital). But I still want those special features disks, aaaaaaarg

[Fang Zei]

Originally Posted by JEDGAR1000

Special editions did a lot of bad, but I do think people overlook the good they added.

Remember the actress who originally played Sidious? (For those who don't know, Sidious was originally played by a woman in makeup with a dubbed voice by another man in ESB theatrical version).



At the end of the day, I am glad they happened though. CGI creatures are annoying, but an actor change is way worse. I'd love to see a new special edition from Disney when they finish buying Fox that resembles the theatrical versions more closely, but keeps the changes made to fix canon (Sidious, Vader eyebrows, Boba Fett voice) and just the general improvements (Victory celebration song, cloud city windows, blinking Ewoks), while getting rid of the bad (Jedi Rocks, cgi creatures). In addition to a box set with the other 4 versions of course (like the Blade Runner 5-disc set, but for each ot film). And a 3-disc set for the prequels containing both theatrical & 2011 special editions for those 3 movies (third disc for bonus features).

I for one would love to see the I-VI “I may have gone too far in a few places” edition.

Originally Posted by happydood

I don't think there has ever been or will ever be a successful retrofitting of a prequel story into a already-established movie series. Release order is the only way to watch them for me and I have to take them on their own merits. There are many things I like about the Prequels and The Hobbit- and many things I don't- but I can never do a series watch with those first- they wouldn't exist without the previously released films.

My philosophy on this has been and continues to be that you either watch the prequels first or you don’t watch them at all. That applies to both The Hobbit and the PT.

[stvn1974]

I would be up for remaking the Prequels. How amazing would it be to see Obi Wan be instructed by Yoda, Anakin and Obi Wan being good friends and Padme dying when Leia was very young? You know, things we were told that happened in the OT.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by happydood

Look at the trajectory from THX to American Graffiti to Star Wars to Empire and look at Jedi and Temple of Doom to see where the shift really happened and it might not seem like such a shift. I mean, this man secured merchandising rights on a movie he thought would fail, so the toymaker (which is both a good and bad thing, I think) has always been there. And Star Wars was always meant for kids. It's the collective zeitgeist that has changed, which can be hard to see when you're pinpointing creative work out of context. Jaws was PG. It would not be PG if released today. Star Wars has a bloody severed arm that they'd never get away with in a PG film today. He shifted his sensibilities with the changing times. And of course, you get older and have kids and that changes how you think completely...

That's not an apology or an excuse. But I think that the implication that GL was replaced by a pod person or lost his mind is just not a realistic approach to how life actually works. I wish the changes hadn't been made as much as the next person. But at this point, running somebody down for what you thought they were and what they actually weren't means the problem might not be theirs...

Fair points, but as you say he had kids and that in itself shifted his outlook as much as anything, after that he was simply not the same creative force. His thirst for merchandising certainly never changed but was that ever really a trait conducive to making good movies? Dunno. Dale Pollack's 1983 biography Skywalking contains interviews with Lucas from during the making of Jedi and even then, only a few years after making Star Wars, he was wrestling with his conscience over the amount of violence he put in that movie because of his kids.

This is the Lucas who would of course resort to ripping someone's heart out in Temple of Doom just a couple of years later, owing to what he was going through with Marcia, but he soon settled back into the headspace of Daddy Lucas, hence the eventual SW SEs not just softening up Solo but editing out some blaster hits on Imperials too. It's disingenous to suggest that Temple was the 'real' Lucas coming through again, it was a visceral response to the pain and heartache that he (and Señor Spielbergo) was feeling at the time.

You seem to be saying that he did change, only he didn't change, but that if he did change it's okay that he changed because life happens. Fine, fine...but whichever way you slice it he's still not the same creative force that made Star Wars, THX and American Graffiti. All filmmakers change, all filmmakers evolve their sensibilities over time, but once he became Daddy Lucas he looked to evolve his tech rather than his sensibilities, which if anything went screeching backwards such was his myopic focus on what his ones and zeroes could do for him rather than what, y'know, a good script could do for him.

[happydood]

Look, I think it's tempting to say 'he's more machine than man, now' but I don't think it's that simple is all. I don't blame anybody for disliking or liking what he does, I just don't think folks who are looking to fold their arms and say 'ah-ha!' are ever going to get through to folks who just roll with it and say his work is what it is. I guess for me it's ok to be ok with not being ok with regards to Lucas output. Ymmv and clearly does for many folks.

[peschi]

Originally Posted by JEDGAR1000

Special editions did a lot of bad, but I do think people overlook the good they added.

Remember the actress who originally played Sidious? (For those who don't know, Sidious was originally played by a woman in makeup with a dubbed voice by another man in ESB theatrical version).

I saw Empire when it premiered in theaters, and when we first saw the Emperor there was this WTF moment, it felt alien, and I think really added to the mysticism of the emperor, there really went a shock through the room. So for me, I prefer the chimp eyes projected on a women's face The special edition version normalises the emperor to just an old guy in a cloak.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by happydood

Look, I think it's tempting to say 'he's more machine than man, now' but I don't think it's that simple is all. I don't blame anybody for disliking or liking what he does, I just don't think folks who are looking to fold their arms and say 'ah-ha!' are ever going to get through to folks who just roll with it and say his work is what it is. I guess for me it's ok to be ok with not being ok with regards to Lucas output. Ymmv and clearly does for many folks.

I don’t mind Lucas’s output. It’s the lack of output of the unaltered OT that bothers me. If he had released it, I wouldn’t mind if he released updated special editions of the OT every month. He could have a 3-season Netflix series where each season consists of one of the movies with updates and changes with each new episode and I wouldn’t care at all.

[JEDGAR1000]

Originally Posted by peschi

I saw Empire when it premiered in theaters, and when we first saw the Emperor there was this WTF moment, it felt alien, and I think really added to the mysticism of the emperor, there really went a shock through the room. So for me, I prefer the chimp eyes projected on a women's face The special edition version normalises the emperor to just an old guy in a cloak.

I can understand that, (I am curious why Lucas didn't go forward with that design) its just that it simply contradicts the other 4 films with Palpatine, so I like the change. I would have been really interested in seeing Return of the Jedi with that variation of the Emperor, but since we didn't, so I'm personally glad for the special edition change.

I'd like to see all 4 editions come to a bluray set someday, so everyone can watch their preferred version.

[Vulture Lives]

Originally Posted by JEDGAR1000

I can understand that, (I am curious why Lucas didn't go forward with that design) its just that it simply contradicts the other 4 films with Palpatine, so I like the change. I would have been really interested in seeing Return of the Jedi with that variation of the Emperor, but since we didn't, so I'm personally glad for the special edition change.

For me, the problem is that the new hologram looks like Palpatine from RotS, not Palpatine from RotJ. The original hologram doesn't look as far removed from RotJ Palpatine as some people make it out to be. Plus, it's just lo-fi enough, and shrouded in just enough mystery, that it somehow just works. Anyway, the hologram isn't the only change to the scene. The dialogue has also been changed (for the worse).

Ultimately, as others have pointed out, none of this would be a problem if both the original and special edition cuts were made available alongside one another. I don't know why that's too much to ask.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Vulture Lives

For me, the problem is that the new hologram looks like Palpatine from RotS, not Palpatine from RotJ. The original hologram doesn't look as far removed from RotJ Palpatine as some people make it out to be. Plus, it's just lo-fi enough, and shrouded in just enough mystery, that it somehow just works. Anyway, the hologram isn't the only change to the scene. The dialogue has also been changed (for the worse).

Ultimately, as others have pointed out, none of this would be a problem if both the original and special edition cuts were made available alongside one another. I don't know why that's too much to ask.

Did you see that video I put up in the previous page?

[Vulture Lives]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Did you see that video I put up in the previous page?

I missed your post, but I've seen that video before. I've been aware of Adywan's work for many years now. It's definitely cool, but I'd still take the original over it.