Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[albertbj]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Why would it stretch the image if it thinks my TV is 4:3? To me it makes sense that if my player thinks my TV is 4:3, then it’ll display a non-anamorphic letterboxed DVD as a 4:3 image with bars on all four sides. This is what CreasyBear suggested above and it makes sense to me, even though it didn’t work with my particular player and TV.

I have the same player as you, and can tell you that you these are the settings you want:

TV Type - 16:9
Screen Format - Normal
DVD Aspect Ratio - Letterboxed
Leave Cinema Conversion Mode and Output Video Resolution on Auto.

That will output a window boxed picture (black bars on top, bottom, and both sides), when playing a non-anamorphic DVD. How your TV then displays that picture is another story. If you've already tried all the zoom settings and nothing works, I'd say you're correct about your new TV not having the option you're looking for, as unlikely as that would seem.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by albertbj

I have the same player as you, and can tell you that you these are the settings you want:

TV Type - 16:9
Screen Format - Normal
DVD Aspect Ratio - Letterboxed
Leave Cinema Conversion Mode and Output Video Resolution on Auto.

That will output a window boxed picture (black bars on top, bottom, and both sides), when playing a non-anamorphic DVD. How your TV then displays that picture is another story. If you've already tried all the zoom settings and nothing works, I'd say you're correct about your new TV not having the option you're looking for, as unlikely as that would seem.

That worked! Thank you!! All I needed to do was have the screen format set to normal instead of full. All the other settings you suggested were set that way by default. Now, if only there’s a way to make the player move the subtitles higher up so that when I zoom in I can read everything Greedo is saying.

[bobbyh64]

I read that the Star Wars Soundtrack Anthology has some alternate takes of certain cues because the breakdown for the original LP release couldn’t be found. Is there a list online that mentions all the tracks that used different takes? I tried looking online and all I could find was that the throne room music at the end of Star Wars on the anthology is a different take from the original album. And apparently Star Wars is the only album that was affected by this. Empire and Jedi were reportedly unaffected. I’m just curious what the other tracks are that used different takes.

[hasslein]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

2011 BD (top) to 2020 BD (bottom):

Interesting you chose that shot. It's the one shot I wished they would've flipped to correct (the backwards antenna such a giveaway) in SE but it didn't happen. That and the second looped Boba Fett?!?! line spoken by Solo on skiff... wish it was taken out.. all the unnecessary changes, and he leaves these as is....

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by hasslein

Interesting you chose that shot. It's the one shot I wished they would've flipped to correct (the backwards antenna such a giveaway) in SE but it didn't happen. That and the second looped Boba Fett?!?! line spoken by Solo on skiff... wish it was taken out.. all the unnecessary changes, and he leaves these as is....

I just like any shot of Fett, flipped or not.

[Monkey_Boy]

I went into the 4K set thinking, "Since Lucas can't touch 'em, I guess there'll be no changes whatsoever." Except there was! Four movies in, I'm at the scene where Greedo and Han face-off, and we go off-rhythm when Greedo suddenly blurts out, "Mclunkey!" I was all like, "Ex-squeeze me?" I was not expecting that at all. Turns out it means "This will be the end of you." Apparently Sebulba says it, but when it comes to alien languages, I don't hear individual words, I hear sounds and my brain translates them into sentences. Like, when Bib Fortuna is talking to Artoo, I hear, "Would you like a cup of Ovaltine? Oh, it's so goody!" I've even done it with Artoo's beeps. Been doing this ever since I was a kid... and only with "Star Wars" movies!

[Neon Rabbit]

Originally Posted by Monkey_Boy

I went into the 4K set thinking, "Since Lucas can't touch 'em, I guess there'll be no changes whatsoever." Except there was! Four movies in, I'm at the scene where Greedo and Han face-off, and we go off-rhythm when Greedo suddenly blurts out, "Mclunkey!" I was all like, "Ex-squeeze me?" I was not expecting that at all. Turns out it means "This will be the end of you." Apparently Sebulba says it, but when it comes to alien languages, I don't hear individual words, I hear sounds and my brain translates them into sentences. Like, when Bib Fortuna is talking to Artoo, I hear, "Would you like a cup of Ovaltine? Oh, it's so goody!" I've even done it with Artoo's beeps. Been doing this ever since I was a kid... and only with "Star Wars" movies!

Disney had nothing to do with Maclunkey, nor would I imagine they have any interest whatsoever in doing this kind of crap to their films the way George Lucas obsessively did. Disney didn't even seem to be aware that the 4k masters they were sitting on up until the launch of Disney+ were in any way different from the ancient HD masters that had been the DeFacto up until that point. This change was overseen by George Lucas in 2012 and was done during preparation of the 4k masters which were to be used for the planned 3D conversions of all 6 films. Disney just released what they inherited from the Lucasfilm sale.

Remeber, George Lucas always did this crap under the guise that he was bringing the films closer to his intended vision, so why would anyone else want to further screw around with his films when he did enough damage to them as it was? Disney are certainly no strangers to film revisionism, but I don't think anyone from within the company or within Lucasfilm would want to change random things for seemingly no rhyme or reason every time there is a new release. That seemed to have been exclusively a George Lucas thing.

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by Monkey_Boy

I went into the 4K set thinking, "Since Lucas can't touch 'em, I guess there'll be no changes whatsoever." Except there was! Four movies in, I'm at the scene where Greedo and Han face-off, and we go off-rhythm when Greedo suddenly blurts out, "Mclunkey!" I was all like, "Ex-squeeze me?" I was not expecting that at all. Turns out it means "This will be the end of you." Apparently Sebulba says it, but when it comes to alien languages, I don't hear individual words, I hear sounds and my brain translates them into sentences. Like, when Bib Fortuna is talking to Artoo, I hear, "Would you like a cup of Ovaltine? Oh, it's so goody!" I've even done it with Artoo's beeps. Been doing this ever since I was a kid... and only with "Star Wars" movies!

Now you know why I still watch them on laserdisc. I like the blu-rays, don't get me wrong, but geez, too many edits. I can't even stand Jedi anymore.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

Now you know why I still watch them on laserdisc. I like the blu-rays, don't get me wrong, but geez, too many edits. I can't even stand Jedi anymore.

You realize you don't need the laserdisc, right?

Even if you go to legal route you've got DVDs that are better than the laserdisc.

The alternate route is not even a contest.

Lucas lost his mind. Plain and simple.

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by Class316

You realize you don't need the laserdisc, right?

Even if you go to legal route you've got DVDs that are better than the laserdisc

Not really. The pre-Defintive Edition transfers are not available on DVD, and those IMO look better than the later Laserdisc releases and the DVD release.

[Roonan]

Originally Posted by hasslein

Interesting you chose that shot. It's the one shot I wished they would've flipped to correct

The shot was flipped intentionally. There's nothing to correct.

[hanshotfirst1138]

Originally Posted by Neon Rabbit

Disney had nothing to do with Maclunkey, nor would I imagine they have any interest whatsoever in doing this kind of crap to their films the way George Lucas obsessively did. Disney didn't even seem to be aware that the 4k masters they were sitting on up until the launch of Disney+ were in any way different from the ancient HD masters that had been the DeFacto up until that point. This change was overseen by George Lucas in 2012 and was done during preparation of the 4k masters which were to be used for the planned 3D conversions of all 6 films. Disney just released what they inherited from the Lucasfilm sale.

Remeber, George Lucas always did this crap under the guise that he was bringing the films closer to his intended vision, so why would anyone else want to further screw around with his films when he did enough damage to them as it was? Disney are certainly no strangers to film revisionism, but I don't think anyone from within the company or within Lucasfilm would want to change random things for seemingly no rhyme or reason every time there is a new release. That seemed to have been exclusively a George Lucas thing.

I bought into this as a kid before coming to the ever-startling revelations that A) the new scenes and effects were frankly just not good and B) Lucas’ “original vision” changed more often than his shirt.

[Jay G.]

Originally Posted by Blu-21

Not really. The pre-Defintive Edition transfers are not available on DVD, and those IMO look better than the later Laserdisc releases and the DVD release.

To be clear:

The 2006 Limited Edition DVDs contained the pre-SE edits of the films (GOUT), based on the 1993 laserdisc transfer, on the bonus disc:
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sta...gy_-_Unaltered

The 1993 Definitive Edition Laserdisc release had new transfers, but not new edits over the older Laserdiscs.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sta...ive_Collection

Edit, in terms of quality, the difference between the Definitive Edition and the earlier transfer initially for the Japanese Special Collection (JSC) release means the relative quality is debatable.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Wh.../page/1#734217

Here's the thing: If you consider MPEG-2 artifacts and halved chroma resolution to be negligible*, then the GOUT is demonstrably better than the DefCol/Faces LDs since it was derived from the D-1 master used to create said LDs.

With that being said, the crux of this debate is the DVNR. Many—myself included—consider the JSC to look better than the DefCol/Faces/GOUT since it resolves a hell of a lot better in motion, doesn't have DVNR artifacts (e.g. four-eyed stormtroopers), and has much better colors overall.

On the flip-side, the JSC shows much more dirt and film damage, has wonky breaks in 3:2-pulldown cadence, and doesn't resolve as well as the DefCol/Faces/GOUT in still and low motion shots. Plus, you need good equipment to get good results.

This whole thing reduces to "pick your poison" and many choose to take the Harmy antidote instead. That's cool.

(* MPEG-2 YV12 simply isn't enough given the source.)

[hasslein]

Originally Posted by Roonan

The shot was flipped intentionally. There's nothing to correct.

I know, but I thought maybe they'd digitally move his antenna and cape to correct side... So there is something to "Lucas"

As I mentioned later in the quote the Boba Fett! looped line was intentional too, but doesn't mean it wasn't shoddy editing...

[Neon Rabbit]

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138

I bought into this as a kid before coming to the ever-startling revelations that A) the new scenes and effects were frankly just not good and B) Lucas’ “original vision” changed more often than his shirt.

I could almost buy his excuse for the initial set of changes in 1997 as being mostly things he originally wanted to do but couldn't due to budget/time constraints or technological limitations, and I got the whole thing of trying to tie the original and prequel trilogies closer together in 2004 even if I didn't agree with the changes, but by 2011 it seriously seemed as if he was just trolling his fans. It seemed as if he went out of his way to deliberately add ridiculous crap to the first Blu-ray set that no one in their right mind could possibly think was an improvement. By this point he had gone far beyond "original intentions" and into the realm of just screwing with fans because he knew he could do whatever he pleased and it would piss people off.

By the end of his reign over Lucasfilm, It seemed as if he had become bitter and confrontational towards those who responded negatively to any of his projects since 1997, and he seems to deeply resent the fact that people want the original cuts of his films to be available which for whatever reason he has an extreme hatred for and feels to be inferior to his ever changing definitive versions.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Neon Rabbit

I could almost buy his excuse for the initial set of changes in 1997 as being mostly things he originally wanted to do but couldn't due to budget/time constraints or technological limitations, and I got the whole thing of trying to tie the original and prequel trilogies closer together in 2004 even if I didn't agree with the changes, but by 2011 it seriously seemed as if he was just trolling his fans. It seemed as if he went out of his way to deliberately add ridiculous crap to the first Blu-ray set that no one in their right mind could possibly think was an improvement. By this point he had gone far beyond "original intentions" and into the realm of just screwing with fans because he knew he could do whatever he pleased and it would piss people off.

By the end of his reign over Lucasfilm, It seemed as if he had become bitter and confrontational towards those who responded negatively to any of his projects since 1997, and he seems to deeply resent the fact that people want the original cuts of his films to be available which for whatever reason he has an extreme hatred for and feels to be inferior to his ever changing definitive versions.

I'm not sure any of his tweaking is specifically malicious or to "troll fans," I think he just has some kind of OCD problem with tweaking a film every time he has an opportunity for a new release. Most of the alterations he did for the Blu-Ray were more head-scratching than offensive. Rocks, bigger doors, a few blinking Ewoks, etc. And none of it was consistent from shot to shot. It was just so weird. It's as if Lucas is OCD about making these tweaks to the films, and yet at the same time he's also lazy about it and doesn't spend enough time following through with what he's trying to do.

Oh, I almost forgot about Vader's "Nooooo!" added to Jedi. Now that I could believe he did as a middle-finger to everyone trashing that moment in Sith.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I'm not sure any of his tweaking is specifically malicious or to "troll fans," I think he just has some kind of OCD problem with tweaking a film every time he has an opportunity for a new release. Most of the alterations he did for the Blu-Ray were more head-scratching than offensive. Rocks, bigger doors, a few blinking Ewoks, etc. And none of it was consistent from shot to shot. It was just so weird. It's as if Lucas is OCD about making these tweaks to the films, and yet at the same time he's also lazy about it and doesn't spend enough time following through with what he's trying to do.

Oh, I almost forgot about Vader's "Nooooo!" added to Jedi. Now that I could believe he did as a middle-finger to everyone trashing that moment in Sith.

Yeah, most of the 2011 alterations were definitely mind boggling, but the worst is certainly Vader's "No. No!" in ROTJ. It ruins the tension that has been building in that scene for a few minutes.

[Neon Rabbit]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I'm not sure any of his tweaking is specifically malicious or to "troll fans," I think he just has some kind of OCD problem with tweaking a film every time he has an opportunity for a new release. Most of the alterations he did for the Blu-Ray were more head-scratching than offensive. Rocks, bigger doors, a few blinking Ewoks, etc. And none of it was consistent from shot to shot. It was just so weird. It's as if Lucas is OCD about making these tweaks to the films, and yet at the same time he's also lazy about it and doesn't spend enough time following through with what he's trying to do.

Oh, I almost forgot about Vader's "Nooooo!" added to Jedi. Now that I could believe he did as a middle-finger to everyone trashing that moment in Sith.

Yeah, OCD is probably a better way to describe it. The addition of NoooOOOOooOOOo!!! in ROTJ is definitely the part that made it seem to me as if he was just trying to piss people off. He does seem to be very embarrassed/ashamed of the original cuts though considering how far he goes out of his way to suppress them and pretend as much as possible that they are completely irrelevant in interviews. He dismisses them as though they were totally unwatchable before he started adding over the top CGI and making nonsensical changes to them.

[Bobbyjoe766]

If Lucas is so ashamed of the OT, he should’ve started over, remaking it, instead of doing the prequels (something to really be ashamed of).

A new cast with as much CGI crap (burying the actors) as he wished.

[Show spoiler]I bet there’d be SE reissues of the OT remake at a later point.

[darkness2918]

Originally Posted by Bobbyjoe766

If Lucas is so ashamed of the OT, he should’ve started over, remaking it, instead of doing the prequels (something to really be ashamed of).

A new cast with as much CGI crap (burying the actors) as he wished.

[Show spoiler]I bet there’d be SE reissues of the OT remake at a later point.

The prequels are awesome Ive always loved them & the only film i rate high then them is The Empire Strikes Back. I also think the prequels are better then all the Disney era SW films.