Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Beast]

Originally Posted by GunRanger

That renders his redemption meaningless then. I think it was just a knee-jerk move on Lucas' to have some sort of connection between the two trilogies. Plus it's kind of disrespectful to Sebastian Shaw.

No it doesn't. Again, it's all there in the mythology of the films. The Hayden version of Anakin makes way more sense.

And it's by no means disrespectful of Sebastian Shaw. He still plays the unmasked Vader and still has has his name in the credits.

It was a role where he was paid for. It's not like he never got paid or credit for the role. So that's silly.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

It makes no sense to show Hayden at the end. He's known for being the "ultimate betrayer." It was Sebastian Shaw's Anakin that redeemed himself, fulfilled the prophecy by destroying Sidious, and became a force ghost or whatever they're called.

As noted before....

It fits the mythology of the films better. And as Yoda said, "Luminous Beings are we, not this crude matter".

Anakin doesn't appear bald, scarred, and missing limbs. Obi-Wan isn't cut in half. So why would Anakin choose to appear as a man he doesn't recognize. Plus it fits Obi-Wan's "point of view" that Anakin did die when he became Darth Vader. He was nothing more than a walking corpse kept alive by machines. Hence why when freed of the shell he was trapped in, he manifested in the force as the man he once was. Makes perfect sense. If the force ghost isn't restricted by what the shape the body was in life, why would Anakin be constrained by the crude matter of his corpse.

[Geologist]

Originally Posted by Beast

As noted before

...Obi-Wan isn't cut in half....

Was he really cut in half? Seems to me he just vanished and cheated Vader out of the death stroke. Maybe I am alone in this, but I have always figured that Obi ascended to that spirit plane of Jedi existence without death and was joined by Yoda later and Vader/Anakin after his death.

Regarding Anakain/Vader, if you've been accepted into the Jedi spirit world with Obi and Yoda, I guess you could appear however you liked...

[chip75]

I prefer Shaw at the end of Jedi to me the two men Obi-Wan and Anakin finally stand side by side as equals. It makes more sense. I think the only reason Hayden was there was so kids wouldn't ask 'who's that old dude?'

Hayden wasn't even filmed for that scene it was stock footage by some accounts. So we can forgive him for his cheesy grin....

If the mechanical being he became when he become Darth Vader didn't matter and Anakin died at the end of RotS how can a machine bring balance to the force?

[Geologist]

Originally Posted by chip75

If he the mechanical being he became when he become Darth Vader didn't matter and Anakin died at the end of RotS how can a machine bring balance to the force?

+1
Not to mention how would a machine still have the powers of the Force or redeem itself?

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by Beast

No it doesn't. Again, it's all there in the mythology of the films. The Hayden version of Anakin makes way more sense.

And it's by no means disrespectful of Sebastian Shaw. He still plays the unmasked Vader and still has has his name in the credits.

It was a role where he was paid for. It's not like he never got paid or credit for the role. So that's silly.

[Beast]

Sorta missed the mythology of the films, didn't you? And he wasn't a mechanical being, he was a corpse kept alive by machines.

[OG Pooh]

We're not going nto this again, are we?

[beanham22]

Originally Posted by Beast

Jedi Rocks is awesome. Really seems to fit the whole wild atmosphere of Jabba's Palace better.

And the replacement of Ghost Anakin was for the best as well. It fits the mythology of the films better.

And I thought I'd seen it all.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by GunRanger

That renders his redemption meaningless then. I think it was just a knee-jerk move on Lucas' to have some sort of connection between the two trilogies. Plus it's kind of disrespectful to Sebastian Shaw.

I disagree. Sebastian Shaw isnt being dissed. And whats wrong with connecting movies that are ultimately very connected?

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Beast

Sorta missed the mythology of the films, didn't you? And he wasn't a mechanical being, he was a corpse kept alive by machines.

Of course he was a cyborg, he never died during the Mustafar battle with Obi and he was alive during the implantation of his cyborgnetic limbs and breathing apparatus. He died at the end of Return of the Jedi....

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by The Blu Knight

I know what you mean. I don't know what it is, but there's just something more real about tangible objects

And that's really what it is. It's why I wasn't impressed by Avatar, and still haven't seen it all the way through even though I've tried several times. It's lovely animation, and I like animation (check my collection), but the story just didn't catch me so even the prettiest animation isn't going to do anything for me.

Subconsciously, we know when something is real and when it isn't. A great movie can transcend that, but I think a lot of the problem people have with some of the CGI paint-ons (again, I think most people are particularly bothered by the original film, not so much the changes made to ESB and ROTJ) is that we were able to do that before, but now that we know the movies so well the paint-on additions are just distracting and a reminder of how fake everything is, LOL.

It's also the fact that Jabba's Palace was there. It was a real place. People could walk around it, interact with Jabba. Everything there was *real*. It may have been rubber and plastic and foam, but it existed, someone created it. Digital effects, though very useful in many circumstances, just have a coldness that you just can't put your finger on. I know artists work just the same on it, but with the original trilogy it was amazing because "How do they do that?", when now it's not a mystery "they painted it on a computer".

Originally Posted by gregmasciola

That dance scene in ROTJ is the only change that I really don't care for at all. Like you said, it feels silly and kind of puts the movie on hold. But hey, at least DVDs & Blu-Rays have chapters (I always just skip that scene).

To me, it's really the only terrible thing they did to either of the later films. I mean, it's just...degrading and awful. It was a poor choice to make Jabba's less threatening to kids - in that scene it feels like it's more Fraggle Rock than Star Wars. The CG wasn't very good (a recurring theme in the SE's, as mid-90's tech just wasn't very good for this sort of thing), and it just doesn't fit at all.

On the DVD release, they did fix up the Rancor scene pretty well. The black lines were removed and the color balance was much better in my opinion. I just remember whenever I watched it on VHS, there were many shots where it looked like Luke was being filmed in front of a projection screen (like when the Rancor drops him). Now it looks much better when I watch it.

See, here's what is going to be interesting to watch the reaction to when people see Star Wars in HD. I've got them all on my TiVo and I was very surprised watching them. It's something I've noticed with a lot of 80's movies - the F/X are...obvious. Like, much more so than on lower resolution formats. I think we've all seen this - I'm thinking of films like Gremlins, BTTF, or even Labyrinth. While they were originally made to watch on the big screen much larger, HD just captures that detail in a different way which makes it stand out considerably.

I just watched the Rancor scene before replying, and it does look better than it used to. In HD, though...it still looks fake. It's easily the most complex sequence in the film, where it goes form miniature, to life-size part (the claw), to process shot, etc. It's kind of jarring. (FWIW, I notice the same thing in the finale of Burton's Batman.)

It's always been odd to me that this was the kind of thing Lucas didn't perfect, instead of just pasting stuff on the Tatooine desert. Tatooine was remote and felt that way because I thought it was supposed to. Now it feels like grand central. There was a lot of stuff he could have fixed that he didn't. That's why I am very curious what these Blu's are going to look like. Have they been redoing all this all these years for this release? Or are people going to go ape-crap because it doesn't look like what they thought it would in HD?

It's funny, but I really don't mind the SE's like some people. I don't think he molested me in childhood, but it bothers me for two reasons : 1) the originals need to be preserved and available for historical sake - just like THX1138, it's much less impressive when a 60 year-old man with unlimited money makes something than a hotshot 20's, 30's director who revolutionized the F/X industry. It's history. 2) Instead of fixing what was there, he kept painting in stuff that never was in the first place.

I'd have no problem, for instance, with much of the space work in CGI. Space looks good in CGI these days - it's one place where it works much of the time. I do have a great admiration for the model work, but they could use the model work and just layer everything together again. That kind of thing is cool and neat (and I found myself wishing that when watching the aforementioned final battle sequence of Batman that they would go back and "fix" it).

I'll love the Blu's in any case, I just love these films, but I think it's going to be popcorn time when they finally get released when we are checking out the heads exploding in the forum between films.

[gregmasciola]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

We're not going nto this again, are we?

Hey, anything is better than bickering about how heavy lightsabers are.

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by Beast

As noted before....

It fits the mythology of the films better. And as Yoda said, "Luminous Beings are we, not this crude matter".

Anakin doesn't appear bald, scarred, and missing limbs. Obi-Wan isn't cut in half. So why would Anakin choose to appear as a man he doesn't recognize. Plus it fits Obi-Wan's "point of view" that Anakin did die when he became Darth Vader. He was nothing more than a walking corpse kept alive by machines. Hence why when freed of the shell he was trapped in, he manifested in the force as the man he once was. Makes perfect sense. If the force ghost isn't restricted by what the shape the body was in life, why would Anakin be constrained by the crude matter of his corpse.

No, he appears healthy as do Obi-Wan and (I assume) Qui-Gon. But he looks like himself and the age he died, which seems normal to me. Why go back to Hayden or a younger version of himself? Why not go back to Ewan also? It seems to me like GL does wanted a prominent PT character to show up in the OT. It's an awkward moment and a letdown whereas before when you saw the unmasked and healthy Anakin it was like, "Wow."

Obi-Wan was deceiving Luke, that's all. Anakin never died. In fact, ROTJ was almost all about how Luke believes there is still good in him, which basically means that he's still Anakin Skywalker. Vader denies this but in the end Luke is proved right. Anakin brings balance to the force and dies on the Death Star.

Obi-Wan truly believed Anakin died when he became Vader, but it doesn't justify Hayden being seen as a force ghost because at that point we know that Obi-Wan was wrong about Anakin being dead. Luke showed us that he was still there, behind the mask somewhere.

[Beast]

Cause Obi-Wan never turned to the Dark Side. Anakin did. So when he redeemed himself, he manifested as the man he once was.

Why should a spirt be beholden to the physical body at all, when you taken into account Yoda's "Luminous Beings" thing.

And no, Obi-Wan wasn't decieving Luke in regard to his beliefs about Anakin. He makes that clear in Return of the Jedi.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by gregmasciola

Hey, anything is better than bickering about how heavy lightsabers are.

LOL... Yeah.

[kemcha]

Has anyone heard if Lucasfilm plans on removing the "Puppet Yoda" from Episode 1 and replacing him with a CGI version? I'd also like to see that bedroom scene with Padme, Anakin and the holographic displays integrated into "Attack of the Clones."

[chip75]

The end of Jedi originally had emotion though, Luke finally saw the man his father might have become the man who died in his arms moments earlier.

Putting an outtake of Hayden just takes me away from the great finale. Before it was 'hey Dad I get it now' now it doen't make sense, in my mind anyway. To me if you have to explain something as simple as the end of Jedi then it just doesn't work.

I hope they do something to the Rancor as well the matte lines do stick out. I'm wary of Tron on BD as well now I watch the DVD last night and it has a lot of matte work and superimposition if the BD isn't done right it may look awful. Disney are pretty amazing BD wise though.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Has anyone heard if Lucasfilm plans on removing the "Puppet Yoda" from Episode 1 and replacing him with a CGI version? I'd also like to see that bedroom scene with Padme, Anakin and the holographic displays integrated into "Attack of the Clones."

As far as I know, replacing Yoda in TPM is the only confirmed change. I could be wrong though.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

As far as I know, replacing Yoda in TPM is the only confirmed change. I could be wrong though.

It would be nice if we had some kind of extended edition for each film of the PT. They spent a lot of time finishing the deleted scenes for TPM, AotC and RotS (although they didn't finish all of those). I'm not sure what would happen to the pacing if it would slow things down too much but you're going to be at home sitting down anyways....