Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by adywan

But we do know what soundtrack you are listening to because you have already told us, The HDTV 1080i versions, which contain the same soundtrack as the DVD's. So you are hearing the same messed up soundtrack that i was talking about. So the music does not lack anywhere? Well what happened to the fanfare when the Xwings make their first dive as they approach the Death Star? That is dialled down so low it's hard to even know there is any music there. As for the sound effects just check out the Detention cell shoot-out when they are in the corridor. Just keep an eye on which side the lasers and explosions are and you will notice that a lot of the effects are coming from the wrong speaker, when this had never happened in any other mix this film had ever had. And these are just a couple of examples

Are you sure it is the DVD. It could be a laser disc. It is possible my receiver is having an effect on the way it is being decoded & read. there are far to many things that we don't know what I am receiving & hearing that you can't judge what will be on the release. I for one think it will be outstanding on Blu-ray considering what I have seen.

[adywan]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

Are you sure it is the DVD. It could be a laser disc. It is possible my receiver is having an effect on the way it is being decoded & read. there are far to many things that we don't know what I am receiving & hearing that you can't judge what will be on the release. I for one think it will be outstanding on Blu-ray considering what I have seen.

Of course i know it's the DVD mix you are hearing. You were watching the 1080i versions on cable. You have said so so i do know what you are hearing. They contain the same mix as the 2004 DVDs. Your receiver can't have any effect on the missing music, swapped music in surround channels, effects coming out of the incorrect channels unless your system is magic.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by adywan

Of course i know it's the DVD mix you are hearing. You were watching the 1080i versions on cable. You have said so so i do know what you are hearing. They contain the same mix as the 2004 DVDs. Your receiver can't have any effect on the missing music, swapped music in surround channels, effects coming out of the incorrect channels unless your system is magic.

I saw what you removed & I never implied that did I

[adywan]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

I saw what you removed & I never implied that did I

Ok, so i removed the sentence where i said that you seemed to be talking to me like i'm an idiot because i realised i was probably reading into what you said something that wasn't there. . But it did seem to me at the time, with what you were saying about your receiver being able to magically pick up things that don't exist in the mix, fix incorrectly mixed sound effects in the wrong channels etc and that i didn't know what mix you were hearing (laserdisc mix on the cable HD transmission seriously?) even though you stated earlier what version you were listening to, that you were sort of implying that i was some sort of idiot that didn't know what i was talking about, when in fact i do. I've studied the DVD/HD mix inside and out and know exactly what is wrong with it.

Now we know that the Blu-Ray version of ANH has a brand new mix but we don't know if it is going to be an improved mix or another step backwards.

If you can then have a listen to the 1997 5.1 laserdisc mix as this is far superior than the 2004 mix, even with the dialogue bleed through the left and right channels. Also listen to the sections i mentioned on your HD versions and then tell me that there isn't a problem in these places.

A lot of people never even noticed these problems until they were pointed out to them but once you do you can't help but notice all these flaws

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by retablo

No, he didn't. That has been de-bunked. He did have story outlines but nothing was really that conclusive.

And didn't end up anything like the films came out to be, anyway.

[Blu-man08]

Off topic -- I was suspended recently for thread crapping in this discussion. I wish to apologize to all who were offended. I try to contribute to the discussion and enter into the debate, but sometimes I get carried away. I am sincerely sorry for derailing the thread and hope that if you were offended that you'll be able to forgive me. Thank you.

Back on topic -- I don't have surround sound, but I have a feeling that I'll still be able to discern any improvements or new mess-ups with ANH's audio mix. Is it too much to hope that John Williams came in to do this new audio mix?

[The Apocalypse]

Originally Posted by Blu-man08

Off topic -- I was suspended recently for thread crapping in this discussion. I wish to apologize to all who were offended. I try to contribute to the discussion and enter into the debate, but sometimes I get carried away. I am sincerely sorry for derailing the thread and hope that if you were offended that you'll be able to forgive me. Thank you.

Back on topic -- I don't have surround sound, but I have a feeling that I'll still be able to discern any improvements or new mess-ups with ANH's audio mix. Is it too much to hope that John Williams came in to do this new audio mix?

It's OK, we all go a bit off topic sometimes. It happens. As for the new audio mix, Williams should be back, since he did compose the music after all. It'll be great to hear Star Wars in 6.1, which still kinda bugs me for not 7.1, but I'm not complaining too much. Quite looking forward to hearing Star Wars with lossless audio.

[sfmarine]

Originally Posted by EclipseSSD

It's OK, we all go a bit off topic sometimes. It happens. As for the new audio mix, Williams should be back, since he did compose the music after all. It'll be great to hear Star Wars in 6.1, which still kinda bugs me for not 7.1, but I'm not complaining too much. Quite looking forward to hearing Star Wars with lossless audio.

I hear ya on 6.1...I'm actually getting used to it since even lotr has it as well.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

This is why I am convinced he will attach them to the eventual single Blu-ray releases of the 3D versions.

It would be brilliant. Many people, including myself, couldn't give a crap about 3-D versions of Star Wars and would never buy them. But, if he includes the original cuts in HD as a "bonus", then I'd buy them in a second.

Originally Posted by merrick97

It would also be wishful thinking.

Honestly, not so much.

I do want the OT available to watch, for me and historical significance. So film students can see what a film made in 1977 really looked like.

My main concern with the original cuts, though, is saving them for posterity and future generations, for the above reasons and for the same reasons we look at art from other time periods as important today. Digital really has no permanent archival solution. Film, on the other hand, if properly stored, even if the projection technology is not available still is made of real frames and real pictures visible to the human eye for a long time to come.

Although I wish him a long and happy life, someday, George won't be around to tinker with them anymore, just like all of us will someday have the "final cut". And while it does seem that he is changing his mind (based on his statements the last few years), even if he doesn't, I do have faith that someone, someday will go down into the vaults in the archive and take all the bits sitting there and put it back together properly. So at least the long-term goal will be met.

That said, I probably would watch the SE's more than the OT's if they did come out. The only thing I really hate is the silly number at Jabba's (which basically just destroys the rest of the tone of the first hour of the film - Jabba's is supposed to be dark and scary and not Muppets on Ice), but I can skip past that. I like a lot of the changes - specifically things like Bespin which looks like a Cloud City now and not a Floating Hospital, and anything in space is cool (I wouldn't notice most of them anyway). So I'm not desperate for them on Blu.

However, I do think it's what's going to happen, and that it would be brilliant. Last year, Lucas said the reason he hadn't done it is because of money, a change in tune from, "they don't exist, it's impossible" (which we know isn't true, for the most part). I think he's planting the seeds.

It would really increase the sales of the eventual 3-D Blu's, because he'd hit the purists with a 1-2-3 punch. And people like me, who aren't exactly purists (I'm more of a preservationist when it comes to how I feel about Star Wars), but want to own both versions (old and new), as well. Add to that the group that don't care for 3-D at all anyway, and bam - he's just resold every Star Wars film (and it will probably singles, released right before the next episode hits theaters through the cycle) to just about everyone. 3-D fans get the 3-D, purists who don't want to see it in 3-D will buy it because it's got the OT, and people like me who don't care about 3-D (I'll see them all once, likely in a theater, but I can honestly say I don't think I'll ever feel the need to own them) will buy it for the OT, and why not in case I do ever want to see the 3-D version again.

As I said - it would be brilliant.

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Thank you. This is the ONLY thing I'm excited about for this release. I would pay $200 for those alone. I'm hoping the trailers will be on there as well...in HD.

LOL, right there with you!

Aside from new audio commentaries (live, all stars & George & surviving senior staff) which we know aren't coming, those are my big wants as well - the deleted scenes and the trailers. To be honest, I'm really not interested in any of the "fan" stuff - at all.

I do hope the deleted scenes are integrated into the films, though. They have already been messed with so much, might as well go ahead. I get so unexcited about deleted scenes as extras. Sometimes I don't even watch them. Of course I would here, but...it's just different watching an out-of-context set of scenes that's "Neat..." but not "Nice!"

Originally Posted by shelldweller

Having said that, I also would have loved to see better documentaries on the discs instead of "Spoofs" and most of all "Star Warriors" which I will not watch even once.

But we´ve been through all that... so I´m just happy about the amount of deleted scenes.

Yeah, agreed, as I said above. I'm hoping that's not a final list we have. As so much wasn't revealed, we know the "all is revealed" was hyperbole, so I do hope (and this may be wishful thinking) that there is some content as far as docs we don't know about.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

I do hope the deleted scenes are integrated into the films, though. They have already been messed with so much, might as well go ahead. I get so unexcited about deleted scenes as extras. Sometimes I don't even watch them. Of course I would here, but...it's just different watching an out-of-context set of scenes that's "Neat..." but not "Nice!"

I'm with you on the deleted scene front, I hope they're put into some kind of context or included in a extended version.

I rarely watch them myself especially if it's films I've only watched once. Sometimes they only make the viewing experience worse even if it's a great scene it leaves you wondering why they didn't put it in the movie in the first place. A few DVD's or BD's try and put the scenes into context with introductions (like the prequel extras) or a commentary so hopefully this set follows suit.

Hopefully the deleted scenes for original trilogy will be in good shape because I've only seen the ANH deleted scenes in a very rough B&W. Also the deaths of Shaak Ti and the other RotS scenes need to have their SFX finished.

[Brightstar]

Originally Posted by kenkraly2004

Adywan I will be getting this blu-ray box set because it has all of the star wars films plus it will be a nice addition to my blu-ray collection and their are a lot of fans of star wars who will buy this box set for their collection. I never said I have a advanced copy of the films no one does. And we don't know yet if the blu-rays of the OT won't be the same transfers that where in 2004. Their are lots of things we don't know about the blu-ray box set yet.

Not forgetting he is leaving stuff out for the future so its not gonna be the best box set. Lucus is spoon feeding fans or should i say milking fans for money.

For a franchise like Star wars 30 hours of extres is not enough.

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by joliefan

Not forgetting he is leaving stuff out for the future so its not gonna be the best box set. Lucus is spoon feeding fans or should i say milking fans for money.

For a franchise like Star wars 30 hours of extres is not enough.

Especially when a lot of the extras are junk.

[Brightstar]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

Especially when a lot of the extras are junk.

Thats whats putting me off i mean look at the Alien Antholgy! now thats a box set

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by chip75

Hopefully the deleted scenes for original trilogy will be in good shape because I've only seen the ANH deleted scenes in a very rough B&W. Also the deaths of Shaak Ti and the other RotS scenes need to have their SFX finished.

Oh I have no doubt they will look great. I have no doubt the video will be top notch (to be honest, the color issues don't particularly bother me - so much more about the SE's changed, so whichever way that goes I'll likely not care). Even if they aren't included in the main films (or branchable, which would be the best of both worlds - and not impractical, like the SE's), I am sure these won't be time-code video rips like we sometimes get.

Honestly, I hope he really has done a big pass on them. Like I said above, I want the originals preserved, but at this point he might as well go to town. The most surprising thing about the SE's to me is that they didn't go far enough in some respects - and the problem was, the tech wasn't there in the mid- to late-90's when he did them. CGI was still in it's toddlerhood, where it thought it was all that but then realized it still had a long way to go before growing up.

I have the HD versions from Spike on my DVR, and last night it rerecorded Star Wars and ESB. I replace them when they repair to keep the TiVo cleaned up. I'm watching Star Wars right now, and I'm reminded of two things:

1) I can't believe it, but I've changed my mind - the prefered viewing order for me really is...oh, this is tough. I don't think I can do it....oh hell, I - VI. I said it. Knowing what comes first chronologically does ruin a few surprises, *BUT* it also adds emotional resonance to quite a few new scenes.

If it was someone's first time, I'd probably recommend watching the OT first for the reveals (if they don't know Vader is the father, so if they are aliens or have been living in a tree in the jungle for the last 35 years). But, it really does enhance more than it detracts, kind of like how Buffy gets even better with each repeated viewing - knowing what comes after makes some of what comes before have much more impact.

and...

2) In HD, even in these compression-artifact filled TV versions, look damn good. However, they look almost...too good sometimes. Like, the bad CG really stands out (the Dewback stormtroopers at the start of SW are painful to watch), and the matte lines and such they didn't fix well in the SE's
the Rancor, and many of the ships really look like little models now, etc. I don't mind the model stuff, but I think Lucas (and many people) want those shots up to prequel standards.

And I say go for it...like I said, he's already done so much, and to be honest the thing that irritates me the most about the SE's is that they were half-assed. It was just too soon and the tech wasn't there. I don't know what the Spike transfers come from, I'm presuming they must be related somehow to the 2004 versions (I'm sure someone here must know). But I really have a feeling he's cleaned these up quite a bit more. One part of me thinks if it was major they'd be documenting the thing with webcams and podcasts and tweets and hooplah.

On the other hand - maybe they learned their lesson, just quietly did the work, and will leave it up to the reviewers when it's released. While they were super-major projects the last time around, with digital tech like we have now it wouldn't take some 100-person team to do quite a bit of work since it would be cleaning up and (hopefully) not inserting too much more in aside from the new deleted scenes.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by adywan

I agree with you 100% here. And this is why this Blu-Ray set won't sell anywhere near what it would have been capable of. Fans are getting fed up with being "milked" for their cash all the time with all the releases. They go out and spend their cash on something only to find out 5 minutes later another release pops up with something different included.

I think this a slightly unfair statement, no doubt there will be future releases but this is it for now. It's the only one we know about. I agree that some studios have 'milked' certain releases but Star Wars on Blu-ray isn't one of them. Lucasfilm have already said this isn't the 'Ultimate' set because they find new material all the time. Not all the extras have been comfirmed I'm sure there will be some treats included. I can't see that many fans waiting for the next uncomfirmed release, this is were it's at. If they release this set in September then announce a new version a week later then it's time to complain (I'll be one of the first to put my hand up and go "What the **** Lucasfilm?").

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by chip75

Lucasfilm have already said this isn't the 'Ultimate' set because they find new material all the time. Not all the extras have been comfirmed I'm sure there will be some treats included.

READ: "We are at least going to do a 3-D box set, and then probably a year or two later do a great big super box set of all six movies and all 17 versions" set." I don't really buy the "finding stuff all the time" - we all know it's in the Archives. If they are having a real hard time cataloging it, they can hire a few interns. Or I bet a few of us would do it for free in 12-hour shifts for them (if we can see the Golden Bikini, albeit probably for different individual reasons).

That said, fully agree on the second point. I'm thinking there has to be a bit more than the highlights we were told - after the bang up Fox did on the disc content of the Aliens set, I can't see them letting Star Wars go out significantly less impressive (which, with soley the extras announced, it would feel).

[The Apocalypse]

Originally Posted by chip75

I think this a slightly unfair statement, no doubt there will be future releases but this is it for now. It's the only one we know about. I agree that some studios have 'milked' certain releases but Star Wars on Blu-ray isn't one of them. Lucasfilm have already said this isn't the 'Ultimate' set because they find new material all the time. Not all the extras have been comfirmed I'm sure there will be some treats included. I can't see that many fans waiting for the next uncomfirmed release, this is were it's at. If they release this set in September then announce a new version a week later then it's time to complain (I'll be one of the first to put my hand up and go "What the **** Lucasfilm?").

I agree. I'll be happy with what this release is. Will there ever be an "Ultimate Edition"? Who knows. The legacy of Star Wars is such that it's probably impossible to fit everything into one release, because there's too much out there. What we will have in this release, I am certain to enjoy. That's just me anyway.

[Brightstar]

As far as the UOT goes if he can spend money in converting all six movies to 3D then i am sure he can give us the UOT. Theres never gonna be a Ultimate' set becouse they keep finding stuff . It will take them another 35 years to make a Ultimate' set.

sometimes i wish lucus never made Star Wars in the first place

[The Apocalypse]

Originally Posted by joliefan

As far as the UOT goes if he can spend money in converting all six movies to 3D then i am sure he can give us the UOT. Theres never gonna be a Ultimate' set becouse they keep finding stuff . It will take them another 35 years to make a Ultimate' set.

sometimes i wish lucus never made Star Wars in the first place

You nearly killed me with that last sentence. Never made Star Wars? The world would be a pretty crap place without it.

[Aquel]

Originally Posted by joliefan

As far as the UOT goes if he can spend money in converting all six movies to 3D then i am sure he can give us the UOT. Theres never gonna be a Ultimate' set becouse they keep finding stuff . It will take them another 35 years to make a Ultimate' set.

sometimes i wish lucus never made Star Wars in the first place