Gladiator (2000)

[hardcorefrokid]

Bloody hell, I've been absent from the forums for a bit. Just popped in here and there this week. Looks like I missed out...

I'm still going to buy the BD. And if Paramount graciously release a better transfer I'll buy it too. I'll b*tch about the BD, but love this movie so I have to buy it.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by thebluemax

Who cares?

You must care, you decided to reply

[thethingwithnoname]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

because ignorant AVS members feel a need to come here and post garbadge

To quote the joker "Why can't we all just....GET ALONG?"

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I am not sure we are all movie fans, after all, with some people it seems to be "don't buy/ don't see that movie"

It's all just advice you can either take on board or ignore as you see fit, but i find all advice useful in making a balanced decision, I know some people are biased, but even biased opinions can bear fruit

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I don't have an issue with that, the issue is that none of those people have any credibility, you can't trust the guys posting the pics and if you look in the dictionary under stupid the definition is someone deciding film artefacts based on screen shots.

To state NONE of these people have credibility is a bit Crass of you really. Fair enough you may have had issues with some of those people before, but more than one person on the AVS thread has got the disc and complained about it. Have you got issues with ALL those people?
And as i mentioned in an earlier post, there are other sites also posting similar issues, someone above kindly posted the caps-a-holic link which is European i believe and i also believe has no links to AVS which clearly shows digital tampering causing elements of the image to be removed incorrectly. Are they wrong too? Are you basically waiting for just one person you trust to tell you what lots of independant people are saying while you stick your fingers in your ears and say 'LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!'
I just think holdinga grudge for so long and then including a whole group of people who had nothing to do with an earlier incident and writing them all off is a bit sad. But maybe i'm just too forgiving

Originally Posted by Anthony P

unfortunately it is not likely to happen

Well also sitting doing nothing will bring about nothing too, so maybe if enough people (nicely i may add) email or ring the right people and suggest someone takes another look at this disc, sometihng MAY get done. Unless someone trys we'll never know will we?

Originally Posted by Anthony P

nothing, but can you explain how some of those people never had any criticism for any HD DVDs? and how the criticism for BDs tends to be proportional to the popularity? and how it is not criticizing a movie they have seen but telling people that they should not buy the movie (and stick with the DVD)?

I can't say about what was said about HD/DVD's because I was not posting or reading on AVS or Blu-ray.com at that time. I know lots of people got very worked up about the format 'war' (I had both so was quite happy thank you)
But now nearly all of AVS, here, highdefdigest, the UK forums have all got BD players and just want good quality BD's to watch. I'll criticise BD's and HD-DVD's if they are not what they could be. I'm sure the same is true of most of the AVS board. Why would they criticise a format which has already won when they have bought BD players and watch BD's? What could doing that possibly acheive?
I know being advised to keep a DVD over a BD is a funny suggestion, and its true 99% of BD's are an improvement over the DVD, but in this case having information MISSING from the BD over the DVD, even for a few frames means in that regard, the DVD is better
As some people have said, the film is the reason we are watching, thats a given, so an annoying glitch or pic info missing can be annoying. I'd rather hope for a redo of this disc or wait it out (after all I have already enjoyed my DVD many many times) than watch a disc which annoys me.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

no, but it should mean they have 0 credibility. Would you say, hey guys maybe Madoff changed his ways, we should all give him our life savings to manage. It brings to mind the saying "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"

I do understand what you mean, and once someone has let you down / annoyed you / lied etc etc it is hard to trust them again. So thats fair enough if you feel you can't trust them, but others may feel differently

Originally Posted by Anthony P

the issue with forums becomes that people (and opinion tends to grow together. When I joined AVS in 2001 there where many very knowledgeable people on there, by the time I left in 2007 many of them had long been gone, what happens to a newb on a forum? he learns from the people there, knowledgeable people interacting with newbs keeps and builds a knowledgeable forums, idiots interacting and teaching newbs builds an ignorant forum. Sooner or later a forum looses all credibility because it is people parroting something stupid said by someone else who either on purpose or not told them something wrong.

I joined there a long time ago to ask for advice on Amps, I didn't post there for a long time and have recently posted on there a bit and read some peoples opinions on there - does that make me an idiot? Is anything I've posted on here idiotic? (probably some will say! )
Some on the AVS think you lot are idiots, as i'm posting on here, does that also make me an idiot?
Between the two I MUST be an idiot!
Some people aren't as easily led as you may like to believe

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I don't know about you, but I have yet to watch a BD which is not a lot better then the DVD, maybe this will be the first, but I find it funny that based on some screen shots from people known to doctor images and hyperbolize issues with BDs you are willing to stick with and watch the DVD of a movie you love. Can you explain how me willing to upgrade to a, most likely, better quality image makes me a BD fanboy, but you willing to watch a lower quality image because the better quality image is not good enough does not show there is something wrong with you (most likely spending too much time on AVS and drinking that Kool-Aid which is why we laugh when someone says “I saw it on AVS)

I would never class you as a BD-fanboy if you chose to buy this disc. I have not read a single post on Gladiator over at AVS which says that if you buy it, you are a Blu-ray fanboy? Can you quote one? I can't?
Seems that you are dragging out the format war AGAIN. You sound like a Japanese soldier stuck on an island who doesn't realise the war is over
I hate to break it to you, but Blu-ray won! HD-DVD is dead, the format war is over! Some people on some forums all over seem not to be able to live in peaceful times
I have some discs which are not great (such as Dark City) but are much better than the DVD. But as far as i know, I don't have any discs missing chunks of the picture due to bad digital manipulation. I draw the line at that.
If it had just been bad EE and DNR, I would have probably grudgingly bought this, enjoyed it, but wished for better. I do think its true though that if people keep buying sub par BD's, then the studios will keep spending less and less on decent discs as they'll see people will buy a disc as long as it is better than the DVD.

Anyway, I have rambled far too much already. I'm glad i never got the bitterness the format war seems to have instilled into some people, and if that is all driving the hatred/ignorance between here and AVS, maybe that should die along with the 'war'?

But as i said, maybe i'm just too forgiving
be happy

[loco]

I dont see what the big deal is...just rent it when it comes out, that way you'll know if its good or bad.

[zardoz]

why are these new paramount tittles region locked ???

did they communicate about this ?

[thethingwithnoname]

Originally Posted by zardoz

why are these new paramount tittles region locked ???

did they communicate about this ?

Paramount do not own the International rights for these, so they want to restrict these to USA only so they do not interfere with International rights.
Don't think there has been an official annoucement as to why, but this seems most likely reason

[#Darren]

Originally Posted by hazzad

Maybe you should learn to just make your own mind up and not listen to other people's opinions. I have seen comparisons and the BD looks worlds ahead of the DVD version. I dont care for what these AVS guys say. Just sit down and enjoy the HD goodness.

The guy owns 150 BD's. You don't think he has a right to hesitate on spending his money after supporting the format this much?

I own more than him and I feel the same way.

[robertc88]

I don't need to see it when folks I communicate with on a daily basis have and stated as such. You going to buy it blindly regardless after much warnings on the PQ?

DVD Beaver changed their initial glowing review. If that doesn't make you skeptical .....

[robertc88]

The opinions on Gladiator have been posted by folks who have actually seen it, not just going by screen caps.

Time for the decision. Rent it, buy it, wait, etc, etc. Not sure what more needs to be said at this stage of the game. And is a better price really going to matter if the quality isn't good????

[robertc88]

Originally Posted by thebluemax

I could care less about reviews and other peoples opinions. If I love a movie such as "Gladiator" I will buy it on BD even if it is not perfect.

That's great, you made a decision. Do you have the SD DVD? Will you just continue to buy movies you like on BD regardless of the quality?

[robertc88]

[QUOTE=killowertz;2254914]I think this is a good post as well. The PQ is a factor in whether I upgrade over the small collection of DVD's I have. In the end though, I'm buying movies on BD because I love the movies (or is confident I will enjoy it when it's a blind buy). While I respect a person's decision to buy a movie just because it's pretty and/or sounds awesome, neither is going to keep me from buying a movie I love. Do I wish they didn't use as much DNR as they did on Wedding Crashers? Sure, but it is one of my favorite comedies, so I bought it and loved it all over again even with the DNR. The only one I've ever sold due to bad PQ is The Italian Job, but that's only because it is a very rare disc where it barely looks any better than the DVD. Before I repeat too much, I'll close by saying that even though a movie could look better, you shouldn't skip buying it if you really love the movie. The movie matters more than the PQ no matter what anyone wants to say, and nine times out of ten a bad transfer still looks better than DVD.[/QUOTE]

One can like the movie and enjoy it watching the SD DVD then because it is more important than flat out PQ. If one owns the SD DVD, isn't the point in buying the BD for better quality? This BD is better than the SD DVD reasoning is flawed if the product one should be looking forward to getting is much worse than it has the right to be regardless if it is better than the SD DVD!

[bypass]

Originally Posted by jdryyz

Whoa whoa whoa....Paramount has "mastering polices"? When will it be economically feasible to exercise these policies for reissues of these less-than-steller BDs that they *knowingly* let out of the gate? I think we're in for a long wait. Seven years passed between the first Braveheart DVD and the 2 Disc SE. I hope we don't have to wait that long for an improved Gladiator BD.

That is interesting info regarding the Star Trek releases. It would appear the same thing happened in the case of Gladiator.

Perhaps a boycotting of the release will be persuasive enough for the studio to re-release it with a proper encode.

[haste]

Originally Posted by bypass

Perhaps a boycotting of the release will be persuasive enough for the studio to re-release it with a proper encode.

well, since the gladiator BD seems to be $25-$28 dollars to purchase, that wont be hard for me to do at all!

im still looking forward to PQ reviews on the net, i hope its not terrible...

[robertc88]

Originally Posted by haste

well, since the gladiator BD seems to be $25-$28 dollars to purchase, that wont be hard for me to do at all!

im still looking forward to PQ reviews on the net, i hope its not terrible...

Last price I saw on BB's website was $22.99 or therabouts. Probably still a bit too much for a catalog title for some folks no matter how much they like this movie. And the opinions on the PQ doesn't help matters.

[richieb1971]

I was in favour of believing the AVforums were full of it. But on this evidence I have to ask questions.

Firstly, why would paramount go out of their way to process an image which was better before they got their grubby hands on it? Secondly, any image delivered at 1080p is going to look better than that of DVD!

If all you want is a better image than DVD then you can download a rip from the net in 720p that probably looks better than this blu ray. The reason I want to pay $22 or whatever it costs for a blu ray is because i'm getting the best image possible.

Paramount have let themselves down and if Ridley Scott authorized this print its because he's going to cash in on some other version later down the road.

If you take Predator you could say its not the best print ever, but you could argue its the best its likely to look. With Gladiator we already have evidence that its certainly not the best it can look and i'm sorry to say that is really disappointing.

The Sapphire ranges reputation is tarnished on its first release. Its a crying shame that Paramount have not given the AV elites what they want.

Before you argue your same points over and over why the current edition is acceptable, ask yourself if you would accept anything else that had unnecessary touches put on it. Would you add artificial coloring to a real life flower?

[haste]

Originally Posted by robertc88

Last price I saw on BB's website was $22.99 or therabouts. Probably still a bit too much for a catalog title for some folks no matter how much they like this movie. And the opinions on the PQ doesn't help matters.

not too terrible i guess, but with tax that comes out to $24.15 for me. i refuse to pay more than $20 a movie now.

i can see them keeping this pricepoint through the holidays, so i will probably just wait until after new years to pick up gladiator. im gonna keep my eye out for a good deal on it between now and then though.

[Sussudio]

Originally Posted by dvdvision

I have seen it and it's trash. There's no debate, it's a fact by now. The debate should be about when will they re-release it in full HD 1080p godness from a Brand New Master.

Opinions are not definitive statements. Not everyone thinks it looks like "trash"

[BLUCanadian]

Originally Posted by space-monkey

BTW, DVDBeaver is notorious for praising terrible transfers and not being able to spot DNR and EE.

They are only good for screenshots, nothing more.

LOL!

[OARmaster]

Originally Posted by shadowracer

I think a few of you are forgetting just how many severe BD errors were found by AVS users.

The POTC framing issue.
Matrix skipped frame.
Starship Troopers repeating segment.
The Fifth Element looking crappy, then being reissued to look like gold.

Inside Man surround problem was found by someone who frequents AVS, but posted here first - and was temporarily banned for it.

Can't we all agree that we want are favorite movies to look the best and find some common ground there? This thread doesn't need conspiracy theorists, if you are happy to buy it then buy it and move on. There is way too much misdirected anger here in this thread.

The actual screenshot scientist hoard (Xylon and his followers) and the mods for the blu-ray software section at AVS are former HD-DVD fanboys with a proven track record of deceit. That is a fact and can be easily shown by looking back through their posting history. This is the reason why any member of the "hoard" are protected and exempt from punishment over there.

AVS is a great place to get information and help with a great number of things, but it also has a nasty infection. A swollen and pus filled wound infected by a handful of moderators and members who are still bitter that their beloved format no longer exists. While the infection may be limited in numbers, it has a death grip on the blu-ray software section. Those bitter few are driving others away in large numbers. Industry experts and those with insider information/contacts have been driven away once and for all. Ask Penton and Jeff and they will likely tell you that AVS has become the laughing stock of the BD community.

Here you have an entire section devoted to discussion with these experts. They can relay information on for you, answer questions, and set the record straight. You don't have that over there. Over there, amateurs who have absolutely no experience claim to know the abosolute truth and fact of a situation based on nothing more than a screenshot. When a person who was actually involved in the transfer of a disc arrives and politely explains that what the "hoard" believes to be true is not and that the issue they are seeing is caused by something else entirely...they are shouted down and run out on a rail.

If the "hoard" are the type of people you want to associate with and trust. Fine. If that is the type of environment you want to be a part of. Fine. Best of luck.

[OARmaster]

Originally Posted by richieb1971

I was in favour of believing the AVforums were full of it. But on this evidence I have to ask questions.

Firstly, why would paramount go out of their way to process an image which was better before they got their grubby hands on it? Secondly, any image delivered at 1080p is going to look better than that of DVD!

If all you want is a better image than DVD then you can download a rip from the net in 720p that probably looks better than this blu ray. The reason I want to pay $22 or whatever it costs for a blu ray is because i'm getting the best image possible.

Paramount have let themselves down and if Ridley Scott authorized this print its because he's going to cash in on some other version later down the road.

If you take Predator you could say its not the best print ever, but you could argue its the best its likely to look. With Gladiator we already have evidence that its certainly not the best it can look and i'm sorry to say that is really disappointing.

The Sapphire ranges reputation is tarnished on its first release. Its a crying shame that Paramount have not given the AV elites what they want.

Before you argue your same points over and over why the current edition is acceptable, ask yourself if you would accept anything else that had unnecessary touches put on it. Would you add artificial coloring to a real life flower?

You will see a difference here compared to there.

Here: If something is wrong with the disc...it will be discussed among those who have actually viewed the disc and it will be based on actual information...not assumption. Conversation will be had with experts and insiders and those same people will attempt to get us whatever answers they can.

There: They will condemn any disc they can before actually viewing it and will often base their assumptions on screenshots or just random information manufactured well before the release date has even arrived. Experts or insiders...they don't participate over there.