Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Cremildo

Still no Bullets Over Broadway?

Someone asked about that, their response was "check with Disney"

[RalphoR]

So Stardust Memories, Moby Dick, and The 3 Worlds of Gulliver are for sure coming from Twilight Time in November/December? Not sure my checkbook can handle any of the other 7 releases. End of the year is shaping up to be a big TT order time for me.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by BixmanJ

Just don't look at the debate as something that needs to be had over and over. If you've had it before, why keep bringing it up in the this thread where there's going to be supporters of the label and release model? I think it's already been established that what one person values is subjective. This topic gets raised during every announcement of their releases and then in between. You wish a larger label was granted permission for titles you enjoy, just leave it at that.

I'm just responding to others at this point. I read the TT thread because I buy TT movies, but I dislike devotion which shuns all realistic assessment. The Russia House is an old DVD master thrown on a BD with no supplements and it costs significantly more than a deluxe Criterion. I think that can be pointed out in a discussion without the Twilight Time Defense Force feeling the need to engage all thrusters.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Someone asked about that, their response was "check with Disney"

Well, that sucks. I love that one (B over B), didn't realize Disney had it. Maybe they'll make it Disney movie club exclusive!!

Deconstructing Harry and Mighty Aphrodite are the other two I'd really like to have.

I'm really looking forward to Bananas, Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Sex, Alice and Stardust Memories at the very least. I'm not going to buy them if Arrow's versions of the three they have are way cheaper than TT's by their release dates, though.

I thought the working theory was that Criterion had Interiors?

[nitin]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I'm just responding to others at this point. I read the TT thread because I buy TT movies, but I dislike devotion which shuns all realistic assessment. The Russia House is an old DVD master thrown on a BD with no supplements and it costs significantly more than a deluxe Criterion. I think that can be pointed out in a discussion without the Twilight Time Defense Force feeling the need to engage all thrusters.

With the MGM stuff I agree with you but with the Fox and especially the Sony stuff, they have access to and put out 4K remasters of some great films. Now that Kino has a deal with Fox, they are also putting out the occasional Fox 4K remaster but it is still the exception rather than the norm. Most recent Fox titles from TT have been 4K remasters. As for the Sony titles, I am very grateful because Sony only otherwise has a deal with Criterion and they can only put out so much.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by nitin

With the MGM stuff I agree with you but with the Fox and especially the Sony stuff, they have access to and put out 4K remasters of some great films. Now that Kino has a deal with Fox, they are also putting out the occasional Fox 4K remaster but it is still the exception rather than the norm. Most recent Fox titles from TT have been 4K remasters. As for the Sony titles, I am very grateful because Sony only otherwise has a deal with Criterion and they can only put out so much.

They put out what they're given, if those Fox and Sony titles went to another label you'd get the same 4k master. It's rather irrelevant.

[nitin]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

They put out what they're given, if those Fox and Sony titles went to another label you'd get the same 4k master. It's rather irrelevant.

But Sony doesn't have a deal with anyone else but Criterion so it's not irrelevant. Well Mill Creek but that's not for remasters. Also, I do think TT paying upfront contributes to them getting 4K remasters, it makes financial sense.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by nitin

But Sony doesn't have a deal with anyone else but Criterion so it's not irrelevant. Well Mill Creek but that's not for remasters. Also, I do think TT paying upfront contributes to them getting 4K remasters, it makes financial sense.

I'm saying if Sony made a deal with Kino, Shout or Criterion instead we'd be getting the same 4k masters. Twilight Time don't do that, it has nothing to do with them as a company. That's all I meant. My debate here is purely about what Twilight Time do to earn their extra $15-20, and from my perspective they do very little. Behind-the-scenes stuff being used to justify the price means nothing to me or any other consumer. That's all I am saying.

This debate is as tedious for me as it for TT defenders though, so I'll try not to respond anymore.

[anthonyls]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

If The Russia House came today from Kino it would be the same master, the same lack of features, but $20 cheaper.

I think not. Kino does NOT sell their movies for $9.99. Nice try.

[Dunemoon]

Originally Posted by anthonyls

I think not. Kino does NOT sell their movies for $9.99. Nice try.

Kino can be just as expensive as TT if you don't pre-order.

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Someone asked about that, their response was "check with Disney"

Not with Disney anymore since they sold Miramax. Lionsgate has Bullets Over Broadway, Everyone Says I Love You, Mighty Aphrodite and Celebrity in the U.S.

[nitin]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I'm saying if Sony made a deal with Kino, Shout or Criterion instead we'd be getting the same 4k masters. Twilight Time don't do that, it has nothing to do with them as a company. That's all I meant. My debate here is purely about what Twilight Time do to earn their extra $15-20, and from my perspective they do very little. Behind-the-scenes stuff being used to justify the price means nothing to me or any other consumer. That's all I am saying.

This debate is as tedious for me as it for TT defenders though, so I'll try not to respond anymore.

I don't get which part of Sony doesn't deal with anyone apart from TT and Criterion is that hard to understand? They haven't done so for ages and in the UK they don't sub-license at all. TT has a deal with them, that is surely a plus and everything to do with them?

I am not defending their model, I have criticised it in the past but facts are facts. And for me the facts are that they are releasing Sony titles that no one else can (yes sure some of them have shown up overseas but very few of the overall number and mostly the horror ones).

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

Not with Disney anymore since they sold Miramax. Lionsgate has Bullets Over Broadway, Everyone Says I Love You, Mighty Aphrodite and Celebrity in the U.S.

And, for the record, while we're at it, the following are with DreamWorks:

Small Time Crooks
The Curse of the Jade Scorpion
Hollywood Ending
Anything Else
Match Point

Deconstructing Harry is with Warner.

Scoop is with Universal.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I honestly don't know what fosters this kind of consumer loyalty where you have to deny the value difference.

I don't deny the value difference. I deny the idea that because most labels have the financial resources to accomplish a certain business standard that every label must be able to do so.

And you seem to believe that because some of us defend what TT is doing that we must have this "Twilight Time über alle" mentality. I buy a lot of discs from a lot of different companies. I appreciate TT's releases, but I don't have any more "consumer loyalty" to them than I do to Criterion or Cohen or Kino, or Warner Archive or whomever.

The thing is, you can wish Kino had gotten The Russia House instead of TT so that you can get it cheaper. You can wish it all you want. But the fact remains that TT got it, and you have to accept that. And you have to accept that TT has its own business model. You don't have to like it, but you have to accept it. It is what it is, and they have their reasons for it, which have no relation to a desire to make consumers pay twice as much. The folks at TT are not making gobs of money. I'd be surprised if, overall, they didn't just do a little better than breaking even.

Also, consider this:

TT has a 3-year exclusivity window. As of now, at least 44 of their releases should be past their 3-year window. Three of those 44 have been reissued, and therefore have a new 3-year window. That brings it down to 41. Of those 41 titles that are available to anyone else in North America, only one has ever been released by anyone else, and that's Christine (from Sony).

So that makes 40 titles (7 of which are OOP) that are available to any other labels that want them, and yet have not been -- as far as we know -- licensed by anyone else.

What that tells us is that even if TT didn't license a given title, there's no guarantee that anyone else would've done it instead. So the idea that TT is keeping them out of the hands of someone else who could offer them at half the price is absurd.

And consider this as well:

As I said above, there are 40 titles that have passed their 3-year window, 7 of which are OOP. That means there are 33 titles that have not sold out. And only four of those are currently on the Low Quantity list. Which means that TT hasn't seen much, if any, profit on those titles. As I said, they aren't making gobs of money on these releases.

On edit: This will be my last post on this tangent. I'm surprised Oildude hasn't gotten on our cases about going off-topic.

[oildude]

Originally Posted by jayembee

As I said above, there are 40 titles that have passed their 3-year window, 7 of which are OOP. That means there are 33 titles that have not sold out. And only four of those are currently on the Low Quantity list. Which means that TT hasn't seen much, if any, profit on those titles. As I said, they aren't making gobs of money on these releases.

On edit: This will be my last post on this tangent. I'm surprised Oildude hasn't gotten on our cases about going off-topic.

Oildude is trying to be patient and allow debate on this topic within reasonable limits. No one has gotten too dramatic and crossed a line yet. This has been tame and civil compared to some of the "discussions" in the past, and people are voicing opinions respectfully. As long as this doesn't become a habit or go on for too many pages, and as long as no one insults TT or other members here, or engages in trolling behavior, I see no reason not to tolerate a spirited discussion every once in awhile, even though by now this topic is all

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by jayembee

The thing is, you can wish Kino had gotten The Russia House instead of TT so that you can get it cheaper. You can wish it all you want. But the fact remains that TT got it, and you have to accept that. And you have to accept that TT has its own business model. You don't have to like it, but you have to accept it.

Don't want to beat more horses, but I just want to say what makes you think I don't accept it? I own 20-30 Twilight Time movies and got Russia House and Romeo is Bleeding in the mail last week. Obviously I do accept it, but I can still voice my opinion that the added price isn't really getting me any more on the consumer end.

[t_rav]

Originally Posted by nitin

I don't get which part of Sony doesn't deal with anyone apart from TT and Criterion is that hard to understand? They haven't done so for ages and in the UK they don't sub-license at all. TT has a deal with them, that is surely a plus and everything to do with them?

I am not defending their model, I have criticised it in the past but facts are facts. And for me the facts are that they are releasing Sony titles that no one else can (yes sure some of them have shown up overseas but very few of the overall number and mostly the horror ones).

This statement is incorrect. Sony also licenses out to Mill Creek. Your facts are missing some facts.

[Cremildo]

Originally Posted by t_rav

This statement is incorrect. Sony also licenses out to Mill Creek. Your facts are missing some facts.

Um, actually, he did mention Mill Creek in a previous post.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I'm just responding to others at this point. I read the TT thread because I buy TT movies, but I dislike devotion which shuns all realistic assessment. The Russia House is an old DVD master thrown on a BD with no supplements and it costs significantly more than a deluxe Criterion. I think that can be pointed out in a discussion without the Twilight Time Defense Force feeling the need to engage all thrusters.

And yet you paid full price for a mediocre film that you know will be still available years from now and will be on sale at some point in the near future. I think it's a little bit unclassy to snidely refer to people countering your argument as the "Twilight Time Defense Force" don't you? I think for some of us it's less that we want to be sticking up for Twilight Time and more that we are tired of constantly hearing people b*tch about their prices. It's like, have you ever been in a retail store buying something and the person in front of you is some miserable old git complaining about the prices of things these days and you're looking at the clerk and you're both rolling your eyes just wishing they'd pay for their stuff and GTF out already? Can you imagine what it would be like if every time you went to that store you were standing behind that same person? Yeah, that's what it's like listening to this griping about TT all the time.

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by jayembee

And, for the record, while we're at it, the following are with DreamWorks:

Small Time Crooks
The Curse of the Jade Scorpion
Hollywood Ending
Anything Else
Match Point

Deconstructing Harry is with Warner.

Scoop is with Universal.

The one title actually with Disney is Take the Money and Run. Which is owned by ABC.