Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[balthazar_bee]

Octagon's feelings roughly mirror my own, except that I think Revenge of the Sith gets so much right that it can be called "a genuinely good film."

The prequels all add up to a very frustrating experience. There are morsels to be enjoyed here and there in the second film, but on the whole it's far too incompetent, rudderless, and just plain boring to be forgiven. And, dramatically, it should be the spine of the prequel trilogy.

And this is important, because Attack of the Clones is where professional prequel defenders and I seriously part ways; the film is indefensible in some very in-your-face ways.

I'm pretty indifferent towards The Phantom Menace. It's fun at times, and watching it all these years later reminds me of how much fun it was to anticipate the greatness of the then-to-be-seen episodes 2 and 3; the feeling was, "Okay, we've set everything up -- three more years and it'll really be go-time." Ah, the optimism of (relative) youth.

But the other day I popped in my UOT STAR WARS DVD and thought, "Shit, this movie is still a hell of a good time!"

The last time I watched The Phantom Menace I was preoccupied by other considerations, like, "Why exactly did Lucas feel compelled to extend the damn pod race?"

[stvn1974]

My main problem with the prequels is that I don't buy or even care about Anakin's turn to the Darkside. That is the entire point of them being made. The Emperor coming into power and the end of the Jedi should have been results of that. Plus in the OT we are made to believe that the Jedi are these awesome beings but I don't see any of that in the prequels. Throw in that if you watch them in order now starting with Episode I by the time you get to Episode VI the story really doesn't make any sense as a whole.

I hope Disney gives us the UOT on BD and then new films can piggyback off of it and make no mention of the events in the prequels unless it is something that Obi Wan mentions in the UOT.

[balthazar_bee]

My bro just sent me this: http://www.retrozap.com/padme-didnt-...-broken-heart/

Makes sense. Anything to get past the whole "will to live" thing.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by balthazar_bee

My bro just sent me this: http://www.retrozap.com/padme-didnt-...-broken-heart/

Makes sense. Anything to get past the whole "will to live" thing.

When you have to rationalize away things you see or hear in a movie it is the first sign of terrible writing and story telling.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by octagon

Commit to what?

I told you one was pretty good, one was pretty bad and one was really bad.

What more do you need to know? Are we ordering team shirts or something?

I Concur!

One was pretty good : TPM

One was awful: Sith

One was GOD Awful: Clones

And Ill take a Team Shirt XL (the overall suckage team)

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by Elvis

I Concur!

One was pretty good : TPM

One was awful: Sith

One was GOD Awful: Clones

And Ill take a Team Shirt XL (the overall suckage team)

I can watch The Phantom Menace. Even as annoying as Jar Jar Binks is he is nowhere as annoying as Anakin in Clones and Sith. I also don't get the hate for Jake Lloyd. He played a 8-10 year old like a 8-10 year old. People rag on the "yippy" line but his delivery is Olivieresque compared to the rest of the actors in the upcoming films.

[balthazar_bee]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

When you have to rationalize away things you see or hear in a movie it is the first sign of terrible writing and story telling.

Fair enough, and there are certainly other examples of Lucas having trouble balancing his plot threads, but I think the article makes a good enough case. It doesn't really feel like rationalizing, particularly the whole "Palpatine gives Vader the bad news, despite having no way of knowing it, then smiles" thing.

[Falaskan]

Lucas simply didn't want to end the movie without giving Padme a proper sendoff of sorts. Now, I think he could've gotten away with an epilogue, if done right, of Padme' dying when Leia was 2 and Bail adopting her, but nooooooooo

What I always was hoping for was for her to fake her death and put one of her look-a-like handmaidens in the coffin.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by rickah88

So overall you're a fan?

No, I would say overall I'm ambivalent.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by octagon

No, I would say overall I'm ambivalent.

Ah, so I was spot on with my assertion of riding the fence. Just wanted to confirm.

[klauswhereareyou]

The Padme death thing was stupid, think we can all agree on that. The only thing I can think of in terms of what was Lucas thinking from his whole Journey of the hero/myth/fairy tale crap was maybe something out of a fairy tale. In many ways her death from a broken heart feels like something out of myth/fairy tale, and even the way she lays in her coffin or whatever at the end evokes Snow White in the Disney animated film.

[Cook]

How hard was it for Anakin to Force slam her into a wall while he was in a rage? He could have been force choking her and Obi wan rushes him to try to stop him and Anakin throws her and pulls out his saber to attack Obi wan. Padme goes flying into a wall and the duel commences. The trauma from her hitting the wall causes a premature labor which results in a hemorrhage which leads to her death.

After the duel Obi wan returns to the ship and finds her inside holding her new born twins and very weak. C3PO and R2 got her inside and helped deliver the twins while the duel was taking place. Obi wan says he will get her back to the Tantive but she says she won't make it and instructs Obi wan to find the twins a loving home and then dies.

This way we don't have some stupid medical droid delivering the twins while saying "uba uba" or whatever in the **** that stupid droid was saying, and there is none of that broken heart BS.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by balthazar_bee

My bro just sent me this: http://www.retrozap.com/padme-didnt-...-broken-heart/

Makes sense. Anything to get past the whole "will to live" thing.

Its a reasonable explanation. I always kind of figured her death was force-related and that the droid just couldnt understand what was happening.

However, the guy who wrote it is clearly overzealous in trying to pass off a confusing narrative point with "ingenious subtlety."

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by octagon

[Show spoiler]
'the majority have been badgered into bashing the prequels by an obsessive minority'

You say most people who claim to dislike the prequels don't really dislike the prequels, they've just been brainwashed by a vocal minority.

I dunno, that seems pretty fair.

Strawman arguments are fair in your book? Good to know, one more reason not to dignify your taunts with legitimate debate.

Originally Posted by octagon

That's a very interesting choice of words. You do know none of us can see your nose, right?

You do know that "plain as the nose on your face" is a figure of speech in common usage, right?

Originally Posted by octagon

[Show spoiler]How exactly did you come to learn that traumatized childhoods are one of the usual causes of the kinds of behavior you're been describing?

Seriously, I want to know.

Did you read it somewhere? Did you take a class? Did you take a lot of classes? Did Oprah do a show about crazy people on the net?

Sorry, haven't seen it.

Oh, marvelous. I call out your insubstantial taunts, and you respond by upping the word count a little bit, for slightly more-developed patronization. It's reassuring to know that some things never change.

Originally Posted by octagon

[Show spoiler]No, this version doesn't sound nearly as paranoid as the first...

But

paranoid? No, this one barely moves the needle.

Yeah, things usually sound less ridiculous when they're not being taken out of context and distorted into a strawman.

Originally Posted by octagon

What would you like to know? I've had quite a bit to say in this thread about the OT and the PT and Lucas and whatnot but if you still have questions please feel free to ask.

There are hundreds, perhaps even thousands of forum members who I would be interested to hear an opinion from. You removed yourself from that list the day you decided to adopt the persona of Sniping Heckler.

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by Cook

How hard was it for Anakin to Force slam her into a wall while he was in a rage?

I've occasionally, ok rarely, thought about something along that line, or maybe Padme stepping in between Kenobi and Vader and accidentally getting hurt. But, I've also "occasionally" wondered how hard would it have been for Luke to go back and get his X-wing once he figured out that the blasters on the snowspeeders didn't have any impact on the AT-AT's in ESB. Hell, there were 4-5 X-wings at least that could have made quick work of the AT-AT's with their torpedos. Not to mention why the hell the speeders kept attacking from the front where the AT-AT's only blasters are located. In the end, all the films can be nit picked to death, so I just enjoy watching them instead.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by STARKILLER--1138

I've occasionally, ok rarely, thought about something along that line, or maybe Padme stepping in between Kenobi and Vader and accidentally getting hurt. But, I've also "occasionally" wondered how hard would it have been for Luke to go back and get his X-wing once he figured out that the blasters on the snowspeeders didn't have any impact on the AT-AT's in ESB. Hell, there were 4-5 X-wings at least that could have made quick work of the AT-AT's with their torpedos. Not to mention why the hell the speeders kept attacking from the front where the AT-AT's only blasters are located. In the end, all the films can be nit picked to death, so I just enjoy watching them instead.

Yeah there are Wtf moments in all the films, but some don't bother me as much as others. Losing the will to live is psychological and can affect the human body's immune system and it's ability to survive, but it doesn't kill you unless you have something physically wrong with you. And it sure doesn't kill you that fast. When the droid made the announcement that she was dying she was physically fine. Maybe a bruised trachea, and severe depression.So there is no reason for her to be dying.

If Lucas wanted to go with the "lost the will to live" thing I would have accepted it if it had been executed well. If the droid had announced it after the birth it could have been birthing trauma exhaustion and shock and she just couldn't fight and hold on so she still loses her will but it makes some sense. Old people and terminally ill sick people give up and die rapidly pretty often. But the way Lucas portrayed it, having the droid announce it before the birth while she is perfectly healthy, makes Padme look like a coward and someone who can commit suicide by thought.

But you are definitely right. Dumb things abound in the saga. I still love it tho.

[Falaskan]

I have a bad feeling that Abrams would've done a better job on a prequel trilogy than a sequel trilogy...

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by Cook

Yeah there are Wtf moments in all the films, but some don't bother me as much as others. Losing the will to live is psychological and can affect the human body's immune system and it's ability to survive, but it doesn't kill you unless you have something physically wrong with you. And it sure doesn't kill you that fast. When the droid made the announcement that she was dying she was physically fine. Maybe a bruised trachea, and severe depression.So there is no reason for her to be dying.

If Lucas wanted to go with the "lost the will to live" thing I would have accepted it if it had been executed well. If the droid had announced it after the birth it could have been birthing trauma exhaustion and shock and she just couldn't fight and hold on so she still loses her will but it makes some sense. Old people and terminally ill sick people give up and die rapidly pretty often. But the way Lucas portrayed it, having the droid announce it before the birth while she is perfectly healthy, makes Padme look like a coward and someone who can commit suicide by thought.

But you are definitely right. Dumb things abound in the saga. I still love it tho.

I agree, plenty of dumb nit picky things, but there's just too much to love to waste time on the other stuff. I also agree that the Padme death could have been better, but I can buy it as much as buying Vader fighting and ultimately mutilating his son when all he had to do was tell Luke from the get-go that he was his father.

[SymbioticFunction]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

Edit: I see you own Nolan's Batman films on BD, so I now know that you have no idea what you are talking about.

You should display your blu-ray collection. So we can all take a look.

[Angel Eyes]

Word is getting around......wake up Lucasfilm and Disney!!!!

http://www.vox.com/2015/1/30/7952859...ition-download