Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by Angel Eyes

Now that's taking killing off your character just a bit too far!

He probably did it on purpose, since he's said many times he would never play Han Solo again, and couldn't live with himself.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

Harrison Ford crashed his plane into their headquarters and it is just a hole in the ground now.

Lucasfilm have already changed Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade famous lines:

(after commandeering a plane)
PROFESSOR HENRY JONES:
I didn't know you could fly a plane.

INDIANA JONES:
Fly, no. Land, yes.

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Originally Posted by chip75

Lucasfilm have already changed Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade famous lines:

I don't know why but this made me laugh my ass off.

I imagine a five minute sequence of Indy and his pop drunkenly rolling the plan and spiraling out of control only to land gracefully with the sound of a kitten landing on a pillow and coming to a perfect stop.

[stvn1974]

Perhaps next time Ford will shoot first so he won't get shot down?

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I just got the first issue of the new Princess Leia comic today and it takes place during the medal ceremony at the end of the Star Wars (A New Hope doesn't exist) and Chewbacca still gets screwed over. Even the rebels are speciesists.

You know, as a primarily Leia fan (she is 80% of why I love Star Wars), that reminds me of something that has always stood out to me as an adult. One of the most famous lines in Star Wars, on the Death Star when Leia calls Chewbacca a "big walking carpet".

Even if you take away the later invention of Wookiee enslavement by the Empire (being a persecuted species), and presuming that, however unlikely, she does not know what a Wookiee is, as a Princess trained in diplomatic relations, it does seem incredibly speciesist. Still funny as heck, but I do think it was very out of character.

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

He no longer owns SW (thank goodness), so hopefully we'll see some of these things rectified in the not too distant future. If it happens, it will be like waking up from a bad dream that so far has lasted almost two decades.

I agree so much with your entire post that I almost want to accuse you of plagiarizing what's in my brain, LOL.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You guys are kidding, right?


People have been making 3P0 "gay robot" jokes for decades now. Hell, it's in the first season of Will & Grace:

And over the course of those decades has anybody ever actually complained about 3P0? Any protests? Letter writing campaigns? Anybody denouncing GL as a homophobe because of 3P0?

Is there any reason at all to think anybody would reluctant to greenlight the 3P0 character today or is that kind of talk itself the product of hypersensitivity?

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by octagon

Is there any reason at all to think anybody would reluctant to greenlight the 3P0 character today or is that kind of talk itself the product of hypersensitivity?

Not to be unnecessarily meta, but I think it's more "hypersensitivity to perceived hypersensitivity", similar to what we see in fact with the Star Wars films - the anti-"George Lucas ruined my childhood!" folks become more sensitive and vocal than the original anti-prequel folks who said that in the first place (and who have largely have gotten over it in the meantime).

[octagon]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

Not to be unnecessarily meta, but I think it's more "hypersensitivity to perceived hypersensitivity", similar to what we see in fact with the Star Wars films - the anti-"George Lucas ruined my childhood!" folks become more sensitive and vocal than the original anti-prequel folks who said that in the first place (and who have largely have gotten over it in the meantime).

Yeah, that's exactly where I was going with that.

Sort of a 'who's the more whingy, the whingers or the whingers who can't stop whinging about them' kind of thing.

[frogmort]

Quit whining.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by octagon

And over the course of those decades has anybody ever actually complained about 3P0? Any protests? Letter writing campaigns? Anybody denouncing GL as a homophobe because of 3P0?

Perhaps because he was introduced in 1977? Perhaps because back then Lucas didn't have an internet with people ready to pounce upon any perceived slight? Not to mention the pervasive political correctness that causes filmmakers these days have to worry about unintentionally offending someone.


Do you think anyone would have made hay of the perceived "racism" of the Phantom Menace characters in '77? Unlikely.


We've had Threepio around for 35 years, people are "comfortable" with him. Hence the jokes.

[Falaskan]

I'm gonna watch Episode 1 at some point this coming week and enjoy the hell out of it! It's the best prequel, if you ignore Jar-Jar's silliness.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

I'm gonna watch Episode 1 at some point this coming week and enjoy the hell out of it! It's the best prequel, if you ignore Jar-Jar's silliness.

The only "UGH" thing with Jar Jar for me is the stepping on/in poop part....
otherwise, Jar Jar doesn't bug me...
Though, anyone stepping into poop would bug me, except for Liam Neeson... I think that'd be funny as hell!

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

The only "UGH" thing with Jar Jar for me is the stepping on/in poop part....
otherwise, Jar Jar doesn't bug me...
Though, anyone stepping into poop would bug me, except for Liam Neeson... I think that'd be funny as hell!

Jar-Jar is part of my favorite scene from that movie, asking Amidala why the Gods allow pain, and Amidala answering that the universe (or the Gods) allow bad things to happen to motivate people of good conscience to action.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Perhaps because he was introduced in 1977? Perhaps because back then Lucas didn't have an internet with people ready to pounce upon any perceived slight? Not to mention the pervasive political correctness that causes filmmakers these days have to worry about unintentionally offending someone.


Do you think anyone would have made hay of the perceived "racism" of the Phantom Menace characters in '77? Unlikely.


We've had Threepio around for 35 years, people are "comfortable" with him. Hence the jokes.

So that's a no, then?

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Do you think anyone would have made hay of the perceived "racism" of the Phantom Menace characters in '77? Unlikely.

Would there have been a controversy about it? No, very likely not.

Would folks have still noticed and would it have been noted in reviews? Sure, it's so obvious - it's not even coded/veiled. It's as blatant as the Empire/Nazi connection.

The difference is it would have just been matter-of-factly stated that the Neimoidians/Trade Federation were clearly based upon the concept/notion of "Oriental Traders", Jar Jar was the stand-in for Stepin Fetchit with a "Bahamas" accent, etc., there just wouldn't have been the objections to it. (Remember, this is before "colored people" really fell out of use, and people from Asia were still commonly referred to as "Oriental", etc.)

To be honest, I don't think it's offensive - it just speaks to the laziness of the Prequels in characterization and writing that it's so blatantly obvious and base. The difference in how the OST was written and how the Prequels were written makes perfect sense now that we know via the Rinzler books that the original films, particularly ESB and ROTJ, were essentially written/developed by committee. That didn't exist on the Prequels, when Lucas had no one around to challenge him but instead just surrounded himself with avowed "Yes, Mr. Lucas" men.

[Geoff D]

In some ways that speaks to Lucas' dated filmmaking sensibilities; stacking a movie full of archetypal (if not quite stereotypical) characters was an approach that seemed kitsch in the '70s but went over like gangbusters because of the lively performances, amazing VFX, music etc. But it's a horribly outdated approach now, not helped by acting so wooden it needed a coat of varnish, and the genie's out of the bottle regarding VFX so the prequels didn't have that 'wow' factor to cover the cracks in the story. Indeed, instead of it being 'wow' it was 'wtf' as people rejected the ersatz worlds that Lucas created.

And with all the talk of the OT being written by committee, it's ironic that Lucas used the talents of thousands of people when it came to designing and creating the PT but it was virtually all on his shoulders when it came to writing.

[klauswhereareyou]

Probably would've helped if the aliens in the prequels didn't all speak English, maybe they wouldn't have been considered quite so racist. Most of the aliens in the OT did not speak English.

[Geoff D]

I agree. Subtitling the Nemoidians or Watto wouldn't have saved the movie from itself, but it would've helped to reduce accusations of racism for sure. I still think it's such a shame that Lucas didn't use Jar Jar as a proper character instead of comic relief; imagine if he'd been the sorely-needed swashbuckling character instead of a shit-stepping doofus.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I agree. Subtitling the Nemoidians or Watto wouldn't have saved the movie from itself, but it would've helped to reduce accusations of racism for sure. I still think it's such a shame that Lucas didn't use Jar Jar as a proper character instead of comic relief; imagine if he'd been the sorely-needed swashbuckling character instead of a shit-stepping doofus.

Well that idea for Jar Jar sounds like something the George Lucas of 1977 would've done. The George Lucas of 1997 seems to have taken his influence from 1990's Disney animated features (The Lion King, Aladdin) and late era John Hughes (Home Alone, Baby's Day Out) rather than old serials and adventure films.

[stvn1974]

Dislike for C3PO is just revisionist BS like the hatred for Return Of The Jedi.