Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

No, both did. The loss of WWI and all of the reparations that the Allies forced Germany to pay for are what caused WWII, period. Those two reasons are why Hitler wanted to take control of Germany.

Anyway, back on topic.

Stephen Ambrose described it in The World At War as - a European civil war that had a ceasefire in 1918 but ended in 1945 with the United States & the USSR as the victors.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Arawn

People know it's not literally a remake and that it's obviously a sequel. They call it a remake to express their opinion that it rehashes the ANH plot to a noticeable degree.

It seems that more and more people confuse noticing things and actual criticism these days.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Martoto

Stephen Ambrose described it in The World At War as - a European civil war that had a ceasefire in 1918 but ended in 1945 with the United States & the USSR as the victors.

I have read a lot of his writings and I usually agree with him. He is right here as well.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Arawn

People know it's not literally a remake and that it's obviously a sequel. They call it a remake to express their opinion that it rehashes the ANH plot to a noticeable degree.

The prequels could be called remakes too then. They mirror just as much as TFA does. In fact TPM mirrors ANH better than TFA does, because it starts on the same planet!*


*I know it technically doesn't, but it's close enough to the start.

[kemcha]

Dude, you need to look up what the movie definition of remake is. Hollywood has been remaking previous movies for such a long time and none of them mirror scene for scene or line for line. They have have similar scenes and similar lines but they are still remakes. People still know The Force Awakens is a remake, they've even admitted they know this.

Total Recall and True Grit come to mind. These were remakes in every sense of the word. Hell, True Grit, while claiming to be an original film based off the novel was nothing more than a remake of the John Wayne western, simply because the Coen Brothers knew that fans of The Duke's version of the film were going to be compared to his version. So, the Coen Brothers decided to steal key sequences in the movie and tried to piggyback off the original film's success. Jeff Bridges is an excellent actor but this is one film he shouldn't have done. There are still a lot of fans who love the original better a lot better than the remake not to mention that it has some of the best memorable scenes in movie history. Jeff Bridges, no matter how great an actor he is, just couldn't pull off the performances that John Wayne pulled off. He made that character lovable and believable and it keeps vested into the movie. Jeff Bridges performances in that film just look too stiff, like he's just repeating the lines and not putting any effort into it.

Originally Posted by Arawn

People know it's not literally a remake and that it's obviously a sequel. They call it a remake to express their opinion that it rehashes the ANH plot to a noticeable degree.

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Dude, you need to look up what the movie definition of remake is. Hollywood has been remaking previous movies for such a long time and none of them mirror scene for scene or line for line. They have have similar scenes and similar lines but they are still remakes. People still know The Force Awakens is a remake, they've even admitted they know this.

Total Recall and True Grit come to mind. These were remakes in every sense of the word. Hell, True Grit, while claiming to be an original film based off the novel was nothing more than a remake of the John Wayne western, simply because the Coen Brothers knew that fans of The Duke's version of the film were going to be compared to his version. So, the Coen Brothers decided to steal key sequences in the movie and tried to piggyback off the original film's success. Jeff Bridges is an excellent actor but this is one film he shouldn't have done. There are still a lot of fans who love the original better a lot better than the remake not to mention that it has some of the best memorable scenes in movie history. Jeff Bridges, no matter how great an actor he is, just couldn't pull off the performances that John Wayne pulled off. He made that character lovable and believable and it keeps vested into the movie. Jeff Bridges performances in that film just look too stiff, like he's just repeating the lines and not putting any effort into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

[kemcha]

I've been reading up on the reviews for the new Star Wars film and while I won't post the source (because they list torrents as well as movie news) I'll post the contents of the article here. Riz Ahmed, who stars in Rogue One, has came out defending the Star Wars prequels and he makes a very good argument for that, one that hasn't been adequately addressed. The article makes sense, after giving it a read, so I'll post it here:

Finally making a sequel to the original Star Wars trilogy, no matter how late, was a pretty safe bet for new franchise owner Disney. Adding returning cast favorites to The Force Awakens, as well as stunning visuals and a heavy dose of nostalgic callbacks, made it even more of a sure thing. In contrast, this weekend’s Rogue One: A Star Wars Story plays on the outer edges of the Lucas sandbox, a standalone story that doesn’t count on the Skywalker legacy for narrative.

Sequels, prequels, and reboots are typically embraced by studios because there’s presumably a built-in audience. While it’s true that a large portion of a franchise fandom will trek out on opening weekend to see another installment, no matter the early critical reviews, how well that fandom reacts to the film can impact its longevity and profitability in the long term. It can also affect whether another movie in that fictional universe ever gets made again.

While all of the Star Wars films have made box office numbers many franchises only dream about, most fans were extremely critical of the prequel films that aired between 1999 and 2005. Not everyone felt compelled to dismiss the films completely, however, and that includes Riz Ahmed, who plays cargo pilot and Empire defector Bodhi Rook in Rogue One. He recently told Screen Crush that he doesn’t agree that Star Wars is bad at prequels.

“People say that, but I did not have a massive problem with the prequels at all. There were some elements that stood out. Jar Jar Binks, I didn’t enjoy him as a character. But people had a problem with them because they weren’t broad and tough and cheek. I enjoy that. I enjoy the fact that it was about grown-up politics and the dissolution of the League of Nations and World War and the rise of fascism. I really enjoyed that and I really enjoyed Clone Wars. I really don’t see what the big problem is, to be quite honest.”

It could be considered self-preservation for Ahmed to insist that the franchise doesn’t have any weak links, but he does have consistent reasoning. The actor has repeatedly expressed his love of the unique “grittiness” and “edge” to the Rogue One film, and when pressed, confessed he prefers The Empire Strikes Back to the first Star Wars film, because it’s “a little bit darker.” It’s not a crazy idea to think there’s a place for all different kinds of movies in this expansive movie universe.

“If all Star Wars movies were the same, it’d be boring. I hope each new movie adds a new dimension, and I think that’s certainly what Rogue One does.”

While the prequel films were definitely flawed, it’s also fair to say that high expectations can often make fans hypercritical. A decade later, it may be easier to see some of the ways that The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith expanded on the mythology and deepened viewers’ understanding of and connection to the major characters. The good news for Ahmed is that early reviews for Rogue One are mostly positive, so hopefully it won’t take 10 years for it to earn a respected place alongside the most beloved installments in the Star Wars franchise.

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

They need to skip BD and make perfect masters and toss them on UHD only, that will help cement that format.

Indy, BttF, Star Wars and Star Trek are the biggest sellers.
They put those on UHD, it is guaranteed to sell systems!

I believe Sith was shot in 1080p, so the UHD will not be great.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by Jakdonark

So just because Lucas was on the set means he was directing? That's like saying a picture of Spielberg on the set of Poltergeist means he directed that. Or if Quentin Tarantino was on the set of Sin City...

Spielberg basically did direct Poltergeist. Or at least a significant portion of it. The entire cast refereed to him as such.

There is debate on this but he definitely contributed. He had originally wanted to direct it but the studio said no because he was also releasing E.T. the same year.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by AreaUnderTheCurve

I believe Sith was shot in 1080p, so the UHD will not be great.

It was finished in 2K and the vast majority of UHD releases thus far have been 2K upscales. Lucas wasn't as far off the curve as people think...

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

Or maybe prequel lovers are just unable to appreciate quality.

I am not following this at all.
So I say that Empire is overrated so therefore I don't appreciate its quality?

I think it is the second best film in the series. While it doesn't beat certain scenes of parts of the prequels, as a whole it is a much better put together film.

But it is still overrated and doesn't even come close to the original unaltered masterpiece.

As for "not giving it a chance"...I ruined my monitor spitting my drink out on that.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Dude, you need to look up what the movie definition of remake is. Hollywood has been remaking previous movies for such a long time and none of them mirror scene for scene or line for line. They have have similar scenes and similar lines but they are still remakes. People still know The Force Awakens is a remake, they've even admitted they know this.

Psycho

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

An examination of the often-criticized romance in Attack of the Clones:

http://www.thegeekblock.com/455/

Definitely an interesting read, but it reinforces what I already thought about Lucas. He's a really smart guy, who knows a lot about the mechanics of storytelling and mythology, but he absolutely cannot seem to translate that to his own movies. You can analyze cordial love and compare storytelling techniques to your heart's content but IMO it did not work on any level in Attack of the Clones.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by JoshKelhoffer

But forget the editing. The human side of the film is just very bland. In fact, AOTC and ROTS are at times incredibly bland. Even the action gets to be boring because my investment in the characters is slim. In fact, the characters feel like the hosts from Westworld, drawn to their paths because they have to. I can't seem to understand what Padme sees in Anakin. He is creepy. Like stalker-ish creepy. He admits to killing Sandpeople, including the women and the children. Padme seems to love him because the story calls for it, not that Anakin is actually charismatic.

It's the same for when he completely turns. That's a moment that should have been powerful, but it just wasn't emotionally compelling. It was flat and lifeless.

When Obi Wan and Anakin fight, it should mean something. It should feel tragic. Two friends now trying to kill each other. But they pushed the bossy Obi Wan too much in AOTC. They barely seemed like friends.

They're a lot of cool theories about Anakin's psychology and even Palpatine possibly drawing Padme's life to keep Anakin alive. But those aren't in the films. That conflict would have been cool. That is just stuff people add to it.

I personally don't think it's nitpicking when a movie feels so bland. I actually envy those who love the prequels. I have tried over and over again. I just can't connect to them. Not the way I do all of Lucas' other films.

That hits the nail on the head for me. Everything about the prequel trilogy feels off and bland-- everything that happens feels very mechanical and forced. It just feels like there is no heart or humanity to anything.

Exceptions off the top of my head: In TPM when Anakin leaves his mother. The fantastic moment in RotS when Anakin and Padme are staring out the window as William's haunting score plays. But these are rare exceptions.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Definitely an interesting read, but it reinforces what I already thought about Lucas. He's a really smart guy, who knows a lot about the mechanics of storytelling and mythology, but he absolutely cannot seem to translate that to his own movies. You can analyze cordial love and compare storytelling techniques to your heart's content but IMO it did not work on any level in Attack of the Clones.

One thing I've learned about narrative...true emotion is hard, you can't fake it. You have to write what you know, from your gut. People respond to emotion, not so much to concepts. When I was with Disney Interactive, there was a project and the lead writer wanted to "scratch an itch" about female insecurity...but the writer wasn't insecure, the writer was trying to conceptualize it, imagine it, write something she didn't know. In my 20's, I tried to write a script about a kid wracked with guilt after his girlfriend died in a car crash, and it was absolutely awful, because I'd never known that, just seen some movies. It was a device. That's death, for both the writer and the reader. I think that's the root of the problems with the writing of the Prequels.

[Hardback247]

A great article examining what makes The Force Awakens special, and JJ Abrams's directing style:

http://filmfisher.com/2016/07/star-wars-force-awakens/

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's actually been a while since I've seen any of the OT or PT movies, as I got so annoyed with the Blu-ray changes that I sold my set a while ago.

No DVDs?

[kidglov3s]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

One thing I've learned about narrative...true emotion is hard, you can't fake it. You have to write what you know, from your gut. People respond to emotion, not so much to concepts. When I was with Disney Interactive, there was a project and the lead writer wanted to "scratch an itch" about female insecurity...but the writer wasn't insecure, the writer was trying to conceptualize it, imagine it, write something she didn't know. In my 20's, I tried to write a script about a kid wracked with guilt after his girlfriend died in a car crash, and it was absolutely awful, because I'd never known that, just seen some movies. It was a device. That's death, for both the writer and the reader. I think that's the root of the problems with the writing of the Prequels.

And thus was born the vaguely-better-on-Dreamcast Jedi Power Battles?

Jedi Power Battles Intro - YouTube

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

That hits the nail on the head for me. Everything about the prequel trilogy feels off and bland-- everything that happens feels very mechanical and forced. It just feels like there is no heart or humanity to anything.

Exceptions off the top of my head: In TPM when Anakin leaves his mother. The fantastic moment in RotS when Anakin and Padme are staring out the window as William's haunting score plays. But these are rare exceptions.

I know I am in the minority here, but I just don't see it.

Anakin is a troubled teen like many young boys. I speak from exerience of mentoring and parenting quite a few that when he has his little fits I do see an honesty. I feel the same way about the protective nature of Padme and wanting Anakin to grow with her. This to me is the tragic part because this difference between a 19 year old boy and a 25 year old WOMAN in AOTC is astronomical by the time of ROTS. Her having a child is not even in the equation with a young man who I feel is full of angst.

You take the truly creepy nature of what I feel to be academy award acting by the Emperor almost coming off as child molesting that puts an extreme un"bland" quality. Even the weird opera thing I equate to a drug reference. I shudder at that scene. When Mace Windu comes in and we learn it is false hope, it has been so many times before but still oh so effective.

One of the other things that I do feel is effective is that Obi Wan nurtured and scolded but did so in an uneven nature that only led to tragedy. It was a series of unfortunate events that give a complex story arch that is almost absent in the OT save one thing...Luke and Vader to the end, but in many ways because of Mark Hamil's painfully bad acting (sorry fans, just my opinion) just doesn't come off to me in the "reveal".

When we get to the final lava scene Ewan's acting paired with Hayden's is so heartbreaking....I say bland???? Wow, mind blown. Even the fall of the senate seats has so much metaphor. It was just crazy to me.

The blurays that are out now are the bible in my home. Lucas gave us one last present before he went, and I appreciate it. Maybe not a rock for R2....but I didnt mind the "NOOOOOO" or digitized Yoda Episode I fix.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

One thing I've learned about narrative...true emotion is hard, you can't fake it. You have to write what you know, from your gut.

This is a really good point and I think it might be relevant in a more meta sense too. You can look at the original Star Wars and come to the conclusion that Lucas really understood Flash Gordon and swashbuckling epics on a gut level. And you can look at the PT and maybe think that he doesn't have the same visceral connection to, say, opera. There might be a lot of cool, operatic themes and beats but they don't really come together.

Then again, maybe I don't get opera. Maybe he completely nailed it and it's just not my cup of blue milk. Maybe I'd watch an actual opera and think 'geez, this is almost as bad as Attack of the Clones'