Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Arawn]

Look at the 90s EU. There was a resurgent Empire remnant. There were superweapons. It was all supposed to be legit as followup to ROTJ.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Look at the 90s EU. There was a resurgent Empire remnant. There were superweapons. It was all supposed to be legit as followup to ROTJ.

But each of those instances were actually explained. Nothing was half assed or came out of nowhere!

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by octagon

This might sound nit-picky but TFA does not retcon the OT. Nothing in TFA tells us the events at the Jedi didn't happen. TFA simply puts those events in a different perspective. (And for me, it doesn't even do that. I never thought all Imperial forces everywhere simply took their toys and went home when Palpatine died).

I understand your points, but I really need more of an explanation of The First Order's rise to power with Snoke and how they have Starkiller base etc, rather than they just rose from the ashes of the Empire. I hope it will come down the line, but currently, it just pulls me out of the film as I'm thinking where did all this come from after Jedi's victory?

Imagine jumping from the happy ending of The Phantom Menace, then straight into A New Hope. I'd be asking who is Vader, who is the Emperor, where did the Empire come from, how do they have the Death Star etc. Which, funnily enough, are the exact same kind of questions I'm asking about The Force Awakens, but that doesn't have 2 films between itself and Return of the Jedi to explain it all.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

But each of those instances were actually explained. Nothing was half assed or came out of nowhere!

If I had a nickel for every time I said to myself, "This here Star Wars book sure is fully assed", well...

...you know.

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

I understand your points, but I really need more of an explanation of The First Order's rise to power with Snoke and how they have Starkiller base etc, rather than they just rose from the ashes of the Empire.

The definition of reboot now includes "this explanation they gave me isn't detailed enough"?

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

Imagine jumping from the happy ending of The Phantom Menace, then straight into A New Hope. *I'd be asking who is Vader, who is the Emperor, where did the Empire come from, how do they have the Death Star etc.

Imagine jumping straight into A New Hope, period. Imagine if it was the first film they released. All those questions you'd be asking!

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Roonan

It's not a rhyme if it's the same word.

Which it isn't.

[Hardback247]

It could be a lot worse. Remember the Dark Empire comics? It took place after Return of the Jedi, and it involved Palpatine being resurrected and cloned! That pretty much made Vader's sacrifice completely pointless.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Arawn

The definition of reboot now includes "this explanation they gave me isn't detailed enough"?

I don't understand this comment. TFA isn't a reboot, so simply stating that The First Order rose from the ashes of the Empire isn't really enough for me.

Originally Posted by Arawn

Imagine jumping straight into A New Hope, period. Imagine if it was the first film they released. All those questions you'd be asking!

Hilarious sarcastic response. Y'see, there's that tiny issue that TFA isn't the first film, it's actually part 7. So, ya know, the stuff that happened previously and in between films is kinda important. And in the same way that ANH worked perfectly as an opener to the saga originally (and still works perfectly as part 4), TFA would have worked as an opener too. But it's not, it's part 7 of the story. I was merely likening how jarring I find the jump from ROTJ to TFA, to being like jumping from TPM straight to ANH.

[Geoff D]

Yup. Ep IV works so well as an opener to the entire saga because it simply HAD to, which people always seem to forget. Lucas had to establish the rules and history of his new cinematic world as best he could, drip-feeding all these nuggets of exposition throughout the film without making it seem like exposition, but TFA simply neglects to do this, probably because they were so squeezed for time when writing the picture AND they had the safety net of ancillary media (books, comics, games etc) and further films in order to flesh out their universe.

As I've said all along, I just hope that they really do flesh it out.

[Yojimbo68]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yup. Ep IV works so well as an opener to the entire saga because it simply HAD to, which people always seem to forget. Lucas had to establish the rules and history of his new cinematic world as best he could, drip-feeding all these nuggets of exposition throughout the film without making it seem like exposition, but TFA simply neglects to do this, probably because they were so squeezed for time when writing the picture AND they had the safety net of ancillary media (books, comics, games etc) and further films in order to flesh out their universe.

As I've said all along, I just hope that they really do flesh it out.

You probably already know this but I'm in the middle of watching the films in "Machete" order. It's the best way for a newbie to experience the Star Wars saga for the first time. Watch em' in this order: Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi. Skip The Phantom Menace. It's the best way to watch the films and still retain most of the twists and surprises. Interestingly, nothing really relevant happens in The Phantom Menace when you stop and think about it. Attack of the Clones starts some 10 years or so after the events in TPM. However, TPM pretty much works as it's own "A Star Wars Story", so you can go back and watch it if you want as a one off like Rogue One. Of course you can throw TFA in after Return of the Jedi. But I really liked watching the films in this order.

[Geoff D]

Yep, I've said much the same thing before, that Menace is ultimately so disconnected from the other two prequels that it feels more like another spin-off rather than a main part of the Saga, and as time goes on that's a feeling which is reinforced by Maul getting so much screen time in Clone Wars and Rebels.

BUT, ironically enough, Menace is easily the most 'Star Warsy' of all three prequels in terms of its structure, how it was shot (anamorphic 35mm) and all the little callbacks and whatnot.

[Class316]

IMO Maul should not have survived Phantom Manace. He got cut in half dammit! He should have died right there.

[Geoff D]

To digress from the usual Star Wars bullshit, the DP of Rogue One Greig Fraser mentions that they had a look at the 4K versions of Star Wars AND Empire in the February issue of American Cinematographer:

With Gareth Edwards, we wanted to be attentive that the look be consistent with A New Hope, which is seared in our brains. We weren’t necessarily trying to reproduce what it actually looked like, but how we remember it — there’s a difference between reality and the remembrance of reality. Part of our research was to look at the 4K scanned versions of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. They look fantastic, but they don’t look how I remember them.

[dallywhitty]

Please be the unaltered versions, please be the unaltered versions, please be the unaltered versions...

[Geoff D]

Amen, brother!!!!

[bobbyh64]

Why didn't the Rogue One DP clarify whether they were the unaltered versions or not? And why didn't Edwards clarify either when talking about the 4K version of A New Hope? What the hell is going on here! If Disney plans on releasing the unaltered OT they better hurry the f up before the generations of people who actually care about it are dead or too pissed off to care anymore!

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, I've said much the same thing before, that Menace is ultimately so disconnected from the other two prequels that it feels more like another spin-off rather than a main part of the Saga, and as time goes on that's a feeling which is reinforced by Maul getting so much screen time in Clone Wars and Rebels.

BUT, ironically enough, Menace is easily the most 'Star Warsy' of all three prequels in terms of its structure, how it was shot (anamorphic 35mm) and all the little callbacks and whatnot.

And Episode II is barely necessary-- I guess you need to see it to understand where the clone army came from, and what happens to Anakin's mom adds a layer to his fears and actions with Padme. But shit, 90% of that movie is just a terribly awkward love story and Obi Wan wandering around finding Kamino. And III makes sense without most of that anyway. I'd almost recommend just doing IV, V, III, VI for machete order and lumping II in with all the "extra" content.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

But shit, 90% of that movie is just a terribly awkward love story and Obi Wan wandering around finding Kamino.

The love story is an example of courtly love. Like the one between Lancelot and Guinevere.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by Class316

IMO Maul should not have survived Phantom Manace. He got cut in half dammit! He should have died right there.

He's clearly non-human so that gives them an excuse, if necessary, to say that his alien physiology was different and he could possibly survive things that a human wouldn't.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

The love story is an example of courtly love. Like the one between Lancelot and Guinevere.

It's still terribly awkward and forced.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

The love story is an example of courtly love. Like the one between Lancelot and Guinevere.