Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I read the exact same interview not too long ago, he really did say it BUT I can't find said interview so....

And it's interesting that the Greedo scene was tweaked for each SE version too which in itself points to his state of mind re: the change, eventually bringing it back to the point where they almost shoot simultaneously.

I actually think it was just because of how awkward and stupid the shootout looked in the 1997 version. Kind of like with the CGI Jabba, he probably just wanted to take another pass at it and make it look better. The second pass of Greedo shoots first is still an unnecessary alteration but it doesn't look nearly as unnatural and phony as it was originally.

And I personally doubt Lucas was trolling with adding "noooo" to Jedi. I think he just doesn't have an eye for subtlety (at least with Star Wars) and wanted to add it in. It goes with his whole "everything rhymes" philosophy with the two trilogies.

Although I can't explain why he would add a stupid Luke-scream in Empire and then change his mind and take it out. Or the rocks. The whole thing with the rocks was just weird and I can't wrap my head around why he would put in the time and effort to do that.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I like The Force Awakens a lot but for anyone who doesn't, you should blame Lucas 100% for it. He sold the rights to Disney knowing that they weren't obligated to use any of his ideas. And it's not like he needed the money; he was already rich as ****. If he didn't want his franchise "tainted" with further sequels not made by him, he shouldn't have sold the rights.

You do know that the money he got for selling Lucasfilm he then donated to charity don't you?

Please tell me your post is intended to be some "ironic" Mickey-take of those Star Wars fans who blame George Lucas for everything under the proverbial. Please tell me you're not so effing stupid.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

You do know that the money he got for selling Lucasfilm he then donated to charity don't you?

Please tell me your post is intended to be some "ironic" Mickey-take of those Star Wars fans who blame George Lucas for everything under the proverbial. Please tell me you're not so effing stupid.

My post is directed at people who don't like The Force Awakens and blame Disney for it. My point is they should blame Lucas if they don't like it because he sold the rights to Disney knowing they didn't have to use any of his ideas.

I don't know why you're telling me what he did with the money he got from the sale. What does that have to do with anything I said?

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

My post is directed at people who don't like The Force Awakens and blame Disney for it. My point is they should blame Lucas if they don't like it because he sold the rights to Disney knowing they didn't have to use any of his ideas.

I don't know why you're telling me what he did with the money he got from the sale. What does that have to do with anything I said?

Why should Lucas be to blame "100%" for what THEY do to the frachise?

The point about donating the money is a good one. My guess is that Lucas is frustrated and disheartened by how he has been treated and also lacking confidence and perhaps judgment to continue. As has been proven, it wasn't about the money, and that was the point.

Saying he should have done this or that is immaterial.

What is certain, is that just because you sell your material doesn't mean you have to get the worst or should be blamed for it.

In the great words of Stephen King, when someone buys your story, it is like your daughter going off to college. You expect her to have experience, you just don't hope you don't hear about a group effort from the football team!

To blame Lucas for what happens after he has sold his rights is just not right. Although, again, the stipulation of sale could be....pray you don't alter the films any further which includes taking them back to original state.

The criticism of Force Awakens is solely on Disney NOT Lucas.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Why should Lucas be to blame "100%" for what THEY do to the frachise?

The point about donating the money is a good one. My guess is that Lucas is frustrated and disheartened by how he has been treated and also lacking confidence and perhaps judgment to continue. As has been proven, it wasn't about the money, and that was the point.

Lucas sold the franchise because he wanted to, not because he had to. That is why I said he didn't need the money. I am not judging him for selling it or what he does with the money. I am merely saying he decided to sell it and he knew that Disney didn't have to use a single idea of his. Personaly, I like The Force Awakens a lot, but if I didn't, I would consider it stupid to blame Disney when Lucas is the reason they can do what they want with the story. I actually feel it's pointless to blame either of them, but if a Force Awakens hater wants to blame someone, it makes more sense to direct that blame to Lucas (imo).

Saying he should have done this or that is immaterial.

What is certain, is that just because you sell your material doesn't mean you have to get the worst or should be blamed for it.

To blame Lucas for what happens after he has sold his rights is just not right. Although, again, the stipulation of sale could be....pray you don't alter the films any further which includes taking them back to original state.

The criticism of Force Awakens is solely on Disney NOT Lucas.

I'm not saying what he should or shouldn't have done with the rights to the franchise. It was his to do whatever he wanted with it, and as I stated I personally wouldn't blame him if I didn't like the sequels. I just think if someone wants to blame someone for the sequels, it makes more sense to direct that blame to Lucas. It would be like a father giving his son a blank check and telling him to write an amount in for his allowance and when the kid writes in $10,000,000 the Dad getting outraged. "Well, you did give him a blank check!"

[oubukibun]

It's incredible... 20 years later, and there are still debates about Han Solo and Greedo's Mos Eisley encounter.

Not making a judgment, just admiring George Lucas's ability to create a world with an unrelentingly fervent fanbase.

He may have f***ed s**t up, but the man knew what he was doing.

Good Lawd!

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by oubukibun

It's incredible... 20 years later, and there are still debates about Han Solo and Greedo's Mos Eisley encounter.

Not making a judgment, just admiring George Lucas's ability to create a world with an unrelentingly fervent fanbase.

He may have f***ed s**t up, but the man knew what he was doing.

Good Lawd!

It doesn't seem like he really knew what he was doing because he kept making changes to that scene. The newer Han Greedo scene makes less sense to me than its first iteration. In the original special edition version of that scene, Greedo clearly shoots first, but now it's very easy to miss who shot first because their shots are almost at the exact same time. That shot is now only 8 frames I think, which is 1/3 of a second. Hard to tell what's going on in that amount of time.

I prefer the unaltered OT, but if I were going to watch the special editions, I'd rather have the first special edition version of that scene as I think it makes more sense.

Edit: Then again, that shot looks so awkward that maybe having it on the screen in a flash is better.

[Ernest Rister]

As a condition of the sale, Iger demanded access to Lucas' short story ideas for the sequel trilogy -- he wanted to know what he was paying for. Lucas felt insulted, said Iger should just trust him. Iger stuck to his guns, Lucas relelnted. Iger was vague publicly about their contents, only saying he was excited by the story possibilities. After the sale, a brain trust including Pixar's Michael Arndt and acclaimed writer Lawrence Kasdan met to plot out and develop the sequel trilogy. Kathleen Kennedy says the development away from Lucas' treatment was "normal". Iger wasn't involved, Disney wasn't in the room. LucasFilm under Kennedy made The Force Awakens and then Rogue One. Disney was the parent company...how many times do executives for LucasFilm, Pixar, and Marvel -- and entertainment journalists -- have to state Disney under Iger leaves them alone to do their thing before it sinks in? I suppose it's never going to sink in, because it's easier to blame a sprawling parent company based on family entertainment with conspiracy theories ("Rogue One reshoots!!11! Disney did it to make it happier!!1!!") versus blaming the beloved Kennedy and the beloved LucasFilm studio and the people actually making the movies.

As for Lucas giving all the proceeds of the sale away, he received $2 billion in cash, and $2 billion in Disney stock. He announced his intention to sell the stock to the SEC...don't know if he actually did it, due to declining Disney stock value shortly after.

[oubukibun]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

It doesn't seem like he really knew what he was doing because he kept making changes to that scene. The newer Han Greedo scene makes less sense to me than its first iteration. In the original special edition version of that scene, Greedo clearly shoots first, but now it's very easy to miss who shot first because their shots are almost at the exact same time. That shot is now only 8 frames I think, which is 1/3 of a second. Hard to tell what's going on in that amount of time.

I prefer the unaltered OT, but if I were going to watch the special editions, I'd rather have the first special edition version of that scene as I think it makes more sense.

Edit: Then again, that shot looks so awkward that maybe having it on the screen in a flash is better.

Oh, I agree. He obviously didn't quite know what mind to make up (lol) as far as that particular moment is concerned...

I meant he knew what he was doing more in the sense of world-building and character-creation. As in, "Would there be a 20-year debate about who shot first if no one cared about Han Solo in the first place?"

Gotta give him credit for that, even if I reserve my right to maintain my reservations on the whole about the numerous changes throughout the recent decades.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by oubukibun

It's incredible... 20 years later, and there are still debates about Han Solo and Greedo's Mos Eisley encounter.

Not making a judgment, just admiring George Lucas's ability to create a world with an unrelentingly fervent fanbase.

He may have f***ed s**t up, but the man knew what he was doing.

Good Lawd!

Thing is, it's not really a debate. Aside from Lucas, no person on Earth can see anything positive about Greedo firing. Everyone has so many different opinions about everything. Politics, religion, entertainment, you name it. To some people even Bin Laden is a good guy. Yet Greedo firing, no one has a positive opinion about it. There's George Lucas and there's everyone else.

Course you have the "don't care" and "don't know" camp, but point is not a single person who is concerned about this change has a positive opinion about it.

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

It almost happened. Then ET 2.0 showed up and tanked at the box office, and Mr. Lucas said if he had known how angry his fans would be by the simple change to the Han v. Greedo scene, he never would have done it.

But he wasted time tweaking it. Why not just restore it? I feel like that would have been easier to do. Yet he did what is harder to do. If he wanted to reverse the change he would have.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Class316

Thing is, it's not really a debate. Aside from Lucas, no person on Earth can see anything positive about Greedo firing. Everyone has so many different opinions about everything. Politics, religion, entertainment, you name it. To some people even Bin Laden is a good guy. Yet Greedo firing, no one has a positive opinion about it. There's George Lucas and there's everyone else.

Course you have the "don't care" and "don't know" camp, but point is not a single person who is concerned about this change has a positive opinion about it.

And cue the inevitable 'well actually I thought it made the Solo character much richer blahbettyblah' posts.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by octagon

And cue the inevitable 'well actually I thought it made the Solo character much richer blahbettyblah' posts.

It doesn't take The Amazing Kreskin to figure out which of the "usual suspects" will take that ludicrous stance...

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by svenge

It doesn't take The Amazing Kreskin to figure out which of the "usual suspects" will take that ludicrous stance...

Is there any reason for more of your hostile comments? You know my view and here you are trying to start trouble again.

I BELIEVE...IMHO...

If you study the character of Han the change isn't that hard to figure out.

That and Greedo not wanting to kill Han.

But saying I am the only one is ignoring that great youtube clip I posted about how Han's character change in a not so natural way in Empire and yes the extra shot is supported.

But of course this is just a Lucas bashing thread and since I support some of his decisions I get bashed too.

Although it seems popular to now blame Lucas for what Disney is doing. Perhaps I can get the blame for the UOT being prolonged further. Lol. Nothing suprises me at this point.

Xxxx

Originally Posted by Class316

Thing is, it's not really a debate. Aside from Lucas, no person on Earth can see anything positive about Greedo firing.

Guess I not from this earth...I never did follow the herd though.

[crissrudd4554]

As far as I'm concerned Lucas sold his empire in 2012. Dislike for anything SW related that has come since or has yet to come he is not to blame. He doesn't call the shots anymore. Just my opinion.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Although it seems popular to now blame Lucas for what Disney is doing. Perhaps I can get the blame for the UOT being prolonged further. Lol. Nothing suprises me at this point.

Again, I am not condoning blaming Lucas or Disney. I am just stating that if someone who doesn't like The Force Awakens wants to blame someone, it makes more sense to me to blame Lucas than Disney (or LucasFilm under Kennedy, rather), because he sold the rights and he didn't have to. Couldn't he have just stopped the entire series at six episodes if he wanted?

I'm curious... If Lucas had wanted the series to only be six episodes, could he have ensured that forever? Or would someone eventually have acquired the rights to make future Star Wars films no matter what?

[Rodney-2187]

http://imgur.com/cMOdhW5

Dear Disney and Lucasfilm,

As we celebrate the 40th anniversary of Star Wars — the movie that started it all — the guest of honor is missing. Where is that film? The original 1977 version. The one we grew up with. The one we saw more times than any other movie before or since. The movie that changed our lives forever.

Whether young or old, whether we saw it in a theater or on home video, it prompted a desire to make movies or just tell stories of our own. George Lucas lit a spark that remains within us today.


One thing we all share are the memories of where and with whom we saw Star Wars, and even of shooting down imaginary TIE fighters out the back window of the car on the way home. For others, it was a brightly shining light in the middle of a turbulent childhood. If Luke and his friends could triumph over adversity, maybe we could too.

All these years later, we would love to revisit the Original Trilogy again, to recapture the magic of a long time ago, in a movie theater or living room far far away. Those of us with families want to be able to show our kids exactly what we saw when we were their age, and relive it with them. It should be such a simple thing to do.

Only it isn’t.

Watching the original versions means relying on old analog video formats that inch closer to extinction each year. And the now out of print bonus DVD's from 2006, which used video masters made in 1993, are hardly better, if one can find them.

None of us ever imagined that these historic versions might fade from memory, ultimately, disappearing from the collective consciousness altogether. To the point where CGI scenes created in 1997 are now mistaken for the innovative groundbreaking FX technology of the 1970s. Film history is being obscured, if not rewritten.

Today, we live in an era in which even the most obscure of cult films are respected enough to be meticulously restored and made available to the public. Shouldn't a movie as loved and as culturally significant as Star Wars, and its two sequels, deserve the same treatment in their original form?

The Special Editions have their place, and we will not bemoan their existence. But there is room for all versions of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of The Jedi to coexist. The original theatrical versions deserve to be seen again, in the absolute best quality afforded by modern cinema and 21st Century home video formats, so that new generations can experience them.

We want to give you our money for the original theatrical versions; we really do! Please give us that opportunity. At least give us hope that we will be able to do so soon.

That is all we ask.

SINCERELY YOURS,

THE STAFF AND MEMBERS OF ORIGINALTRILOGY.COM

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Class316

But he wasted time tweaking it. Why not just restore it? I feel like that would have been easier to do. Yet he did what is harder to do. If he wanted to reverse the change he would have.

Because Mr. Lucas is proud and stubborn and bristles at criticism. He's still stewing over things people said about American Graffiti after all these years.

[Petey Parker]

STAR WARS Original Trailer (Restored) - 1976 - YouTube

[Jakdonark]

Happy birthday Star Wars!

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Again, I am not condoning blaming Lucas or Disney. I am just stating that if someone who doesn't like The Force Awakens wants to blame someone, it makes more sense to me to blame Lucas than Disney (or LucasFilm under Kennedy, rather), because he sold the rights and he didn't have to. Couldn't he have just stopped the entire series at six episodes if he wanted?

I'm curious... If Lucas had wanted the series to only be six episodes, could he have ensured that forever? Or would someone eventually have acquired the rights to make future Star Wars films no matter what?

I understand what you are saying, and I am not surprised that there isn't more opposition because of the nature of bashing Lucas at every turn even to the point of drawing out of thin air. Not saying it is you, but rather the mindset.

That said, Kathleen Kennedy as President came after Lucas left. Kathleen Kennedy is Spielberg's baby and her association with Amblin moved to Lucas film as no doubt a grandfather clause based on who you know principle. Sure she was a co-chair before Lucas left, but her association with Lucasfilm was a very short time period before she became president.

Now to give an example. If Lucas would have sold to a completely crappy company, there is still the possibility that the company could have better ideas and still do quite well. Whatever a company does after Lucas leaves has nothing to do with Lucas(even if he purposely sells to a bad company).

Either way, the mindset of "...I am just stating that if someone who doesn't like The Force Awakens wants to blame someone, it makes more sense to me to blame Lucas than Disney" is ass backwards.

As for Lucas ending or not ending at 6...what does that have to do with 7,8,9, or 10,00000

Is Sean Cunningham to "blame" for Jason X? Is Steven Spielburg to blame for Jaws the Revenge??? Should we say Steven...see Jaws Revenge..it is all your fault because you didn't stop them!!!!

Wouldn't it make more sense to blame the people that actually were responsible for the film?

So if I sell a car, am I to blame if that person takes that car and kills someone? Am I to blame because I didn't make a stipulation that you can buy the car, but not drive it? Am I to blame for selling the car in the first place?

Lucas sold the films with or without the intentions of the films going on......it doesn't matter. The sale happened, and that is the end of Lucas getting the blame. Anyway, I cannot convince you any more clearer.

To me, The Force Awakens having any fault whatsoever is because of DISNEY and associates and that is that. It isn't because Lucas not writing a better script...not giving them advice...not stopping them....

While I may explain a few ideas about George Lucas and why I think he did a few of his decisions, I think this really should go without saying. Make of it as you will.