Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

You're not alone in the wilderness... I'm that one OTHER fan of AOTC. Easily my favorite of the prequels, although I certainly understand everyone's complaints about it. As for the pacing, and wanting to "switch it off" at the gladiator arena.... I've felt for years that the Star Wars movies -- all of them -- are almost too "dense". I've discovered great enjoyment by placing an old-timey intermission half-way through. I walk around, get my head straight, grab a Jack 'n' Coke, and dive back in feeling refreshed.

My intermissions:
MENACE: post pod race, just after Qui-Gon and Watto settle their bet; now the whole "second half" is about getting the hell off Tatooine
CLONES: right at Anakin/Padme arrival at Lars homestead; second half is much better when you shake off the talky baggage of the first half
SITH: right after Obi-Wan kills Grievous (spoiler!); whole second half is about the turning of the tide
HOPE: right after Luke's lightsaber training on Falcon, after "you've taken your first step into a larger world"; second half is Death Star Adventure!
EMPIRE: right after Falcon escapes from space slug; second half is all slip-sliding into Cloud City
JEDI: right at Wicket's arrival, Leia recovers from unconsciousness after speeder bike spill; second half is all Ewoks
AWAKENS: after Rey runs away from Maz's compound, into the woods -- right before Starkiller Base shows off its power; second half is all about Starkiller Base, Rey getting captured, and dealing with that plotline

I think I'm going to try this. It's on my bucket list to have a Star Wars marathon of the original six films but what's always put me off is the idea of being sat on the couch for over twelve hours. Certainly some sort of relaxing substance would be on the cards for such an event and the intermissions you mention would be just the time to smoke it!

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

There speaks someone who clearly hasn't dipped their toe into the mire of the originaltrilogy.com site.

I certainly don't have time to read every post over there, but I checked it out, i didn't see anyone claiming to speak for every fan, but I'll take your word for it. That said, there are legitimate arguments and discussions that can be had by fans who favor the original trilogy that can't be dismissed with ineffective generalizations.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

I don't think that's even remotely true. At worst there are a few outspoken individuals with radical viewpoints on the issue, but if this thread is any evidence there is a tremendous amount of civil discussion from the "original trilogy mob."

Are you being serious? Do I need to start quoting? I have made general statements, but I don't personal attack anyone unless attacked first, and even that I try not to do at all anymore.

I think lately there has been a lot of civility and better discussion and that is good. There is room for opposing ideas and that makes more room for learning from each other. But that said, let us not rewrite history. The UOT supporters are a fiery bunch.

Xxxxxxx

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Before Dolby came along, there were five screen channels for 70mm films: Left, Left-Center, Center, Right-Center and Right (plus mono surround). All of the stage channels were full-range channels.

However, back in the days of 70mm 6-track, there was also 4-track mag for 35mm. Same as 70mm, but without Left-Center and Right-Center.

The studios got lazy and cut budgets, so instead of doing a full 6-track mix, they started doing 4-track mixes (or taking the 35mm mag 4-track) and using that for the 70mm, spreading Left and Center to Left-Center and spreading Center and Right to Right-Center. This killed a lot of the stereo imaging. One of the rationales they gave for doing this is that in the early days of 6-track, they would pan the dialog across the screen channels if a character was moving across the screen. But they stopped doing that and primarily sent dialog to the center channel as they do today, so they felt that completely discrete channels for 2 and 4 weren't necessary.

When Dolby came along and was preparing for the 70mm Star Wars in 1977, they wanted to make better use of channels 2 and 4 - the left-center and right-center channels. They decided to make those low-frequency effects channels only. Since they weren't switching out the speaker systems for speakers specifically designed for low frequencies, they were called "baby-boom" channels.

When people talk about wanting the original 70mm mixes on Blu, they usually have no idea what they're talking about because no one would have such a speaker configuration at home: (Left - Left/Center effects - Center - Center/Right effects - Right - mono surround) and the receivers don't support such a configuration anyway. What would be done is that Left/Center and Center/Right would become the ".1" channel and then you'd have Left, Center, Right and mono surround - essentially a 4.1 mix as "THX" noted in a post above. My contention is that even those who argue for the "original untouched" editions would freak out if Star Wars was released in only 4.1, so they're a bit hypocritical.

An interesting side note is that when Apocalypse Now was released in 70mm a few years later, Coppola wanted stereo surround so the helicopter flyovers would be effective. But there were only six channels available on 70mm mag soundtracks. So what Dolby did for "split surround" is that the high frequencies for surround were recorded on channel 2 for left surround and channel 4 for right surround. Those were split off in the processor and sent to the surrounds. Channel 6, the former mono surround channel was used for surround low frequencies only and sent to both surrounds (okay since low frequencies have long wavelengths and lack perceivable directionality). Low frequencies on channels 2 and 4 were sent to the effects stage channels as they were with "baby boom". So Dolby was able to get 7 channels out of 6 tracks. Quite a trick.

Lucas could have used split surround for the 70mm releases of "TESB" and "ROTJ" and for the special edition 70mm re-releases of all three films, but he didn't. I remember being very surprised by this because he was very involved with Dolby from the beginning. And certainly all the flyovers in the Star Wars films as well as the environmental noise could have made good use of stereo surround.

This is a very informative post, but I for one have never argued for the ecact 6 channel configuration. Obviously a rediection/remix is in order.

However to say a 4.1 mix is not welcomed is to ignore people like me who love Tommy and Xanadu that both have fantastic 4 channel authentic mixes.

Are companies supposed to cater to what is popular vs what is accurate? I think you are undermining what audience will appreciate if given an actual choice.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Are you being serious? Do I need to start quoting? I have made general statements, but I don't personal attack anyone unless attacked first, and even that I try not to do at all anymore.

I think lately there has been a lot of civility and better discussion and that is good. There is room for opposing ideas and that makes more room for learning from each other. But that said, let us not rewrite history.

Well I am serious but I wasn't responding to you, just the claim that there's an OT mob who can't distinguish themselves from others.


I will say though, I rewatched the prequels recently and found that I liked The Phantom Menace the best, it may be the most unnecessary but it's the best of the three for pure entertainment and filmmaking.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

Well I am serious but I wasn't responding to you, just the claim that there's an OT mob who can't distinguish themselves from others.


I will say though, I rewatched the prequels recently and found that I liked The Phantom Menace the best, it may be the most unnecessary but it's the best of the three for pure entertainment and filmmaking.

There is an UOT mob...and is sone way I don't blame them....in SOME ways.

The TPM is a good movie. The pod race is a sonic masterpiece.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

There is an UOT mob...and is sone way I don't blame them....in SOME ways.

The TPM is a good movie. The pod race is a sonic masterpiece.

I have no doubt there are irrational people on that side of the argument, it's just frustrating when arguments that aren't coming from that "mob" are dismissed because of the possible existence of said mob. I haven't really seen evidence of that in these threads.

I hated the pod race when I first saw the film, I definitely enjoyed it more this time. Most of my problems with the prequels come down to the writing and how the overuse of CGI dilutes the effective application of film language. But since Phantom has less CGI saturation, the frame composition and basic artistry doesn't suffer as much, which just leaves the writing, but from scene to scene there was still enough enjoyable moments I was able to appreciate it.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Caseyscott

I have no doubt there are irrational people on that side of the argument, it's just frustrating when arguments that aren't coming from that "mob" are dismissed because of the possible existence of said mob. I haven't really seen evidence of that in these threads.

I hated the pod race when I first saw the film, I definitely enjoyed it more this time. Most of my problems with the prequels come down to the writing and how the overuse of CGI dilutes the effective application of film language. But since Phantom has less CGI saturation, the frame composition and basic artistry doesn't suffer as much, which just leaves the writing, but from scene to scene there was still enough enjoyable moments I was able to appreciate it.

I hear you on all of it, because people are individuals and shouldn't be judged by actions of others.

I do think AOTC gets unfairly put down. It is the lesser of the 8 movies, but it still has merit.

I agree about TPM and the whole thing could use a restoration make over.

[sandman slim]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

The pod race and the Gui Gon/Obi Wan/Maul fight are the only two things I like out of the Prequels.

I actually like most of the PT, problem is the bad parts are so bad. Lookin' at you, Hayden. And Jake.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by sandman slim

I actually like most of the PT, problem is the bad parts are so bad. Lookin' at you, Hayden. And Jake.

Blahhblah...again with the Anakin hate. Sing a new tune.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by sandman slim

I actually like most of the PT, problem is the bad parts are so bad. Lookin' at you, Hayden. And Jake.

+1. What makes the prequels decent are Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, Ian McDiarmid, and of course Frank Oz's voice work. Outside of those actors they are largely terrible.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

+1. What makes the prequels decent are Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, Ian McDiarmid, and of course Frank Oz's voice work. Outside of those actors they are largely terrible.

Meanwhile back in reality, the younger younger talent deserve their credit like with Natalie, Hayden, and Jake.

It comes down to an ageism mentality that only see things through prejudice OT mindset vs embracing something new that has merit.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Meanwhile back in reality, the younger younger talent deserve their credit like with Natalie, Hayden, and Jake.

It comes down to an ageism mentality that only see things through prejudice OT mindset vs embracing something new that has merit.

No, we think their performances suck, which they do. But you keep on telling us who dislike the prequels how wrong we are.

[home888]

Disney is thinking about canning Star Wars after today - after episode 9 or even 8!

We want to go back to the Mickey brand today! The Disney Classic Brand today! New age era shows that don't revolve around the Disney teens anymore today! No live-action BS after the next two years today! Re-altering the Disney Channel back to the way it was in 1983 when it first started today!!!!

Star Wars just isn't working for Disney. The movies are coming out horrendously anymore (unlike Star Wars '77 and Empire Strikes Back '80 which we didn't even make). When we saw what Lucas films did to episode 8, we could have passed out on the floor this afternoon.

We are thinking about selling the Star Wars brand to 20th Century Fox or Lionsgate! Star Wars has made Disney a lot of money, but Disney just doesn't want to deal with it anymore. We made the money and are done with it. The movies and brand just aren't working for our company.

So, 20th Century Fox and Lionsgate, if you want a deal, just make a call to Hollywood Corporate on Monday morning.

We'll make a deal with you 20th Century Fox! We want Deadpool 3 (if you want to give it up; although we understand that you wouldn't want to) and a nice chunk of change - maybe you can make better Star Wars movies.

[Lope de Aguirre]

Originally Posted by home888

Disney is thinking about canning Star Wars after today - after episode 9 or even 8!

We want to go back to the Mickey brand today! The Disney Classic Brand today! New age era shows that don't revolve around the Disney teens anymore today! No live-action BS after the next two years today! Re-altering the Disney Channel back to the way it was in 1983 when it first started today!!!!

Star Wars just isn't working for Disney. The movies are coming out horrendously anymore (unlike Star Wars '77 and Empire Strikes Back '80 which we didn't even make). When we saw what Lucas films did to episode 8, we could have passed out on the floor this afternoon.

We are thinking about selling the Star Wars brand to 20th Century Fox or Lionsgate! Star Wars has made Disney a lot of money, but Disney just doesn't want to deal with it anymore. We made the money and are done with it. The movies and brand just aren't working for our company.

So, 20th Century Fox and Lionsgate, if you want a deal, just make a call to Hollywood Corporate on Monday morning.

We'll make a deal with you 20th Century Fox! We want Deadpool 3 (if you want to give it up; although we understand that you wouldn't want to) and a nice chunk of change - maybe you can make better Star Wars movies.

Is this you again Bob?

Please get sober and think it through, OK?

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

However to say a 4.1 mix is not welcomed is to ignore people like me who love Tommy and Xanadu that both have fantastic 4 channel authentic mixes.

Are companies supposed to cater to what is popular vs what is accurate? I think you are undermining what audience will appreciate if given an actual choice.

1 - He was referring to Star Wars as people who wouldn't welcome a 4 channel mix.

2 - Are you freaking kidding?
Look at the uproar of people complaining that The Next Generation wasn't given a widescreen treatment! Look at The X-Files threads too!

The studios will almost always do anything to undermine the artists intent just to appease the "unwashed masses." They'll do anything for a quick buck instead of providing a perfect release.

Look at early BDs and Early 4Ks. There are some serious issues with some titles! Hell, 4K shouldn't have even been released yet seeing as how there isn't a set standard! Most of us will NEED to go out and get a new player and TV just so we can experience it properly because of Dolby Vision!

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

No, we think their performances suck, which they do. But you keep on telling us who dislike the prequels how wrong we are.

Nat in Ep 1 was good. Ep 2, she was "meh." In Ep 3... terrible!
Jake was ok. Nothing really bad, but also, nothing really good either.
Hayden was ok. You can see where he fell into the role during Ep 2, too bad the movie was filmed out of order (like most are) because as the movie goes on, you can see where he was still "skittish" with the role and when he was used to it.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by home888

Disney is thinking about canning Star Wars after today - after episode 9 or even 8!

[Show spoiler]We want to go back to the Mickey brand today! The Disney Classic Brand today! New age era shows that don't revolve around the Disney teens anymore today! No live-action BS after the next two years today! Re-altering the Disney Channel back to the way it was in 1983 when it first started today!!!!

Star Wars just isn't working for Disney. The movies are coming out horrendously anymore (unlike Star Wars '77 and Empire Strikes Back '80 which we didn't even make). When we saw what Lucas films did to episode 8, we could have passed out on the floor this afternoon.

We are thinking about selling the Star Wars brand to 20th Century Fox or Lionsgate! Star Wars has made Disney a lot of money, but Disney just doesn't want to deal with it anymore. We made the money and are done with it. The movies and brand just aren't working for our company.

So, 20th Century Fox and Lionsgate, if you want a deal, just make a call to Hollywood Corporate on Monday morning.

We'll make a deal with you 20th Century Fox! We want Deadpool 3 (if you want to give it up; although we understand that you wouldn't want to) and a nice chunk of change - maybe you can make better Star Wars movies.

Whatcha talkin bout Willis - YouTube

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Nat in Ep 1 was good. Ep 2, she was "meh." In Ep 3... terrible!
Jake was ok. Nothing really bad, but also, nothing really good either.
Hayden was ok. You can see where he fell into the role during Ep 2, too bad the movie was filmed out of order (like most are) because as the movie goes on, you can see where he was still "skittish" with the role and when he was used to it.

What's unfortunate is I saw Life as a House about a year before Attack of the Clones and thought Christensen was fantastic in that. You can probably chalk up his poor performance in Episodes II and III to Lucas' horrible writing.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by home888

We are thinking about selling the Star Wars brand to 20th Century Fox or Lionsgate! Star Wars has made Disney a lot of money, but Disney just doesn't want to deal with it anymore. We made the money and are done with it. The movies and brand just aren't working for our company.

So, 20th Century Fox and Lionsgate, if you want a deal, just make a call to Hollywood Corporate on Monday morning.

Star Wars has not yet turned a profit or even broken even (not nearly even 1/2) of what it cost them!

[Early Memphis]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Nat in Ep 1 was good. Ep 2, she was "meh." In Ep 3... terrible!
Jake was ok. Nothing really bad, but also, nothing really good either.
Hayden was ok. You can see where he fell into the role during Ep 2, too bad the movie was filmed out of order (like most are) because as the movie goes on, you can see where he was still "skittish" with the role and when he was used to it.

Sir, please allow me to introduce you to my friend, the MultiQuote Button.

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

What's unfortunate is I saw Life as a House about a year before Attack of the Clones and though Christensen was fantastic in that. You can probably chalk up his poor performance in Episodes II and III to Lucas' horrible writing.

I agree that the character "writing" was terrible for II, in that he was stuck being a whiney brat with maturity and security issues which weren't believable - and certainly weren't anything pleasant to watch or even vaguely sympathetic. In III, however, he simply wasn't old or savvy enough to pull off the angst of becoming Darth Vader - especially as the whininess continued unabated, imho, of course.